Wanta B
Member
^^OK so I am out of the loop on that one. What is up with ARMS?
Am I the only person who likes Rock River Arms?
- Thread starter eitrheim31
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An Entry Tactical was my first AR, and I have been very happy with it. As others said, good value. I have fun shooting it and am considering treating it to a YHM Specter kit to doll it up. Love the trigger. Didn't love the stock; I put a RRA fixed A2 stock on it and am considering a Magpul CTR instead.
I did research quite a bit before I bought. I knew I wouldn't be buying a $1500 AR for my first one. I read about the bolt carrier staking and whatnot, went for it, and got lucky.
I'm contemplating my next AR which will be a full length rifle I can toss a scope on for punching paper further out. A Rock River is still on the short list.
I did research quite a bit before I bought. I knew I wouldn't be buying a $1500 AR for my first one. I read about the bolt carrier staking and whatnot, went for it, and got lucky.
I'm contemplating my next AR which will be a full length rifle I can toss a scope on for punching paper further out. A Rock River is still on the short list.
sv51macross
Member
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Wanta, ARMS has a [well deserved] reputation for making shoddy products*, filing frivolous/false lawsuits against other companies, and donating money to anti-gun politicians in return for continuing weapons contracts.
RRA sells a few ARMS flip sights and includes them on a couple of their pre-pimped rifles.
RRA sells a few ARMS flip sights and includes them on a couple of their pre-pimped rifles.
Boba Fett
Member
Bravo Company, Bushmaster, and STAG also carry ARMS flip sights.
I can see being against ARMS if what you say is true (not saying it isn't, but I have not done any research to know that it is). But I don't see what that has to do with the AR manufacturers.
skidooman603
Member
Prolly time to let this one go...Appears as if both sides agree to disagree. I'll just go clean a few more targets and not worry if I can pound in fence posts with my RRA
I was VERY impressed with the RRA LRPK I bought from them, to complete my S&W lower, which then went onto my Colt HBAR upper. A LE supply dealer in Austin, three hours away, carries RRA, so this brand is on my short list for a whole rifle, or upper, in the future, if I decide to go back to carrying an AR15 at work.
Jon Coppenbarger
Member
Who said they are not doing 1911's anymore? Mark still does them but they are not listed in their books or on the web site anymore. The hardball gun has not stopped and they are going to do the tactical again but you need to call them to order and you are looking at around 3k for them. they stopped producing the lower end ones if you could ever call them low end. Internet rumors are funny!!
Other rumors are funny also like the carriers and I have stocked and sold hundreds of the carriers over the last 6 years and have never had a bad one. I did send one rifle back to them a few years ago and can not think of why but it did go back.
I sell other ar's also but mainly stock rra's and do shoot them in competitions also.
I also have a few les baer's also and do love them but everyone tells me they are to expensive for what you get? But I do like them none the less.
as far as backorders go at this time just about everything as far as the 223 models and parts are in stock. they have been running some special lately also and now have several type's of wood stocks and hand guards also.
I only change a few parts on my rifles I use in matches every year. never have broken a part but gas rings, extractors and firing pins get replaced every so. OH forgot a few barrels as shooting the berger 75vlds hot the thort erosion does cause me to change them out.
Other rumors are funny also like the carriers and I have stocked and sold hundreds of the carriers over the last 6 years and have never had a bad one. I did send one rifle back to them a few years ago and can not think of why but it did go back.
I sell other ar's also but mainly stock rra's and do shoot them in competitions also.
I also have a few les baer's also and do love them but everyone tells me they are to expensive for what you get? But I do like them none the less.
as far as backorders go at this time just about everything as far as the 223 models and parts are in stock. they have been running some special lately also and now have several type's of wood stocks and hand guards also.
I only change a few parts on my rifles I use in matches every year. never have broken a part but gas rings, extractors and firing pins get replaced every so. OH forgot a few barrels as shooting the berger 75vlds hot the thort erosion does cause me to change them out.
ol' scratch
Member
I am glad to hear they are producing them again. I wasn't going off of a net rumor, but what I was told by my mom. She used to work for a company in Northern Michigan that made some of the internals for the Rock River 1911's. She was the one who told me they weren't producing them anymore. They used to make the firing pins up north. I was bummed when they stopped producing the firing pins because I wanted a few extras and they were tool steel.
skidooman603
Member
Ol'Scratch...where in N Mich?
ol' scratch
Member
Afton. Where the men are men and the sheep are scared.
Sorry if you are from Afton. I grew up in Cheboygan. It is a running joke. ONLY KIDDING!!
Sorry if you are from Afton. I grew up in Cheboygan. It is a running joke. ONLY KIDDING!!RRA All the Way
Well, I do bet my life on my weapons, for 23 years now. I dumped my colts and wouldn't have an other AR over the RRA. Evidently neither will the guys at the FBI or DEA. They did extensive testing on any and all submissions and they both took the RRA as their AR. I have two RRA AR's and seven 1911's. Absolutely love them all. I am a fan of a rod actuated bolt over the gas impingment system but its not an extra $1000 preference for me. RRA is building a rod gun now in .223 but I'm already set there. Next one will be an LAR-8. Bushmaster......junk! My department had to send all of ours back to have the chambers recut then we ended up having RRA retro fit their triggers into the Bushies because the Bush trigger sucked.
Well, I do bet my life on my weapons, for 23 years now. I dumped my colts and wouldn't have an other AR over the RRA. Evidently neither will the guys at the FBI or DEA. They did extensive testing on any and all submissions and they both took the RRA as their AR. I have two RRA AR's and seven 1911's. Absolutely love them all. I am a fan of a rod actuated bolt over the gas impingment system but its not an extra $1000 preference for me. RRA is building a rod gun now in .223 but I'm already set there. Next one will be an LAR-8. Bushmaster......junk! My department had to send all of ours back to have the chambers recut then we ended up having RRA retro fit their triggers into the Bushies because the Bush trigger sucked.
winknplink
Member
This ^ for the win.
Used to catch much flack about RRA from the hardcore Colt choir (the same shtick ole' Art was spewing above)...right up until those fed contracts to RRA manifested as a heaping spoonful of ****.
Sebastian the Ibis
Member
A guy I train with who has actually shot way beyond 20k rounds a year, for decades, as part of SRT and the training bureau of a major police department, only has RRA AR's. I better show him your post and the chart and tell him that he is betting his life on the wrong rifle when he goes on a call out. Can you please tell me specifically which RRA rifles and components you have had problems with, and the factors which may have contributed to the failure. Thanks.
Boba Fett-
How does that fixed rear sight work with a scope? I really like a fixed rear sight, but I like to put on a scope if I know I'm going to be taking longer shots. That RRA upper seems to really split the difference well. How do you like it?
kwelz
Member
You realize Colt got a larger part of that contract as did another company. RRA didn't exactly give the DEA the same guns you can buy off the shelf. I have also heard there are some issues with the guns they purchased but haven't seen data on that yet.
Non Chrome lined barrel, 1/9 barrel twist. No MPI testing of Bolt or Barrel. All these and more are problems with RRA carbines. I know a Department that issues DPMS rifles. That must be they are "as good as" as well right? Police departments make far to many decisions based off of budgetary concerns and not data.
But hey RRA "When Fit and finish are what matters" Right?
My RRA carbine has been reliable and accurate for 3 years now in all conditions but after reading this thread and printing a copy of the chart I have had tons of issues;
-The front sight base rusted itself to the barrel
-The 77 grain ammo I don't own and shoot keyholes
-My carrier key seperated itself with extreme prejudice
-My reciever extension failed to fit the stock I didn't buy for it that only fits mil-spec tubes
-My bolt and carrier exploded due to lack of shoot peening
-Right before my bolt exploded my barrel melted and exploded because of the steel it's made from
-My rounds all hung up on the rifle feed ramps suddenly
-My hand caught on fire because the single heatshield acould not hold back the heat of semi-auto fire
-My front sight base pins fell out because they are not tapered
-My buffer suddenly was too light causing failures
And to add insult to injury it only cost $950 with tax and shoots an MOA at 100 yards with XM193, piece of crap
-The front sight base rusted itself to the barrel
-The 77 grain ammo I don't own and shoot keyholes
-My carrier key seperated itself with extreme prejudice
-My reciever extension failed to fit the stock I didn't buy for it that only fits mil-spec tubes
-My bolt and carrier exploded due to lack of shoot peening
-Right before my bolt exploded my barrel melted and exploded because of the steel it's made from
-My rounds all hung up on the rifle feed ramps suddenly
-My hand caught on fire because the single heatshield acould not hold back the heat of semi-auto fire
-My front sight base pins fell out because they are not tapered
-My buffer suddenly was too light causing failures
And to add insult to injury it only cost $950 with tax and shoots an MOA at 100 yards with XM193, piece of crap
benEzra
Moderator Emeritus
Looking at the chart, some nitpicking is in order. First, it says that RRA's barrels aren't chrome lined. If you order one that's not chrome lined, it won't be chrome lined; if you order one chrome lined, it's chrome lined. They offer you the choice because some match shooters prefer the extra accuracy of an unlined barrel.
Likewise, penalizing them for not having an "H" buffer is a bit odd if you're buying a 16" midlength, because you wouldn't want to use a heavy buffer with a middy. I can see that you might want one if you were running a shorty gas system, but IMO one selling point of RRA's is the ease with which you can get a gas system designed for a civilian length 16" barrel instead of one designed for a 14.5" barrel.
From a discussion of that topic on m4carbine.net:
For the price difference between an RRA and some of the top tier brands, you can buy a regular LMT or Bravo Company bolt carrier group to throw in there and have significant money left over, if you want to run it in carbine classes until the barrel is smoking under the handguards. Even without going that route, though, you can certainly use one with confidence in a civilian defensive role or even an LE role, as you won't be running the bolt to the temps that a select-fire military carbine might see in the extreme case.
The guy who compiled that chart says as much:
Likewise, penalizing them for not having an "H" buffer is a bit odd if you're buying a 16" midlength, because you wouldn't want to use a heavy buffer with a middy. I can see that you might want one if you were running a shorty gas system, but IMO one selling point of RRA's is the ease with which you can get a gas system designed for a civilian length 16" barrel instead of one designed for a 14.5" barrel.
From a discussion of that topic on m4carbine.net:
For the price difference between an RRA and some of the top tier brands, you can buy a regular LMT or Bravo Company bolt carrier group to throw in there and have significant money left over, if you want to run it in carbine classes until the barrel is smoking under the handguards. Even without going that route, though, you can certainly use one with confidence in a civilian defensive role or even an LE role, as you won't be running the bolt to the temps that a select-fire military carbine might see in the extreme case.
The guy who compiled that chart says as much:
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Welding Rod
Member
If you want a 1:7 and chrome, you simply order it that way. They build to order.
http://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=273
801sureshot
Member
The carrier key on my entry tactical IS properly staked and looks nothing like the pic from 2007 that is used on m4carbine to show RRA as being improperly done. The interweb can be a good source for info but we should all know enough to look in to it before making any decisions based on info we find online. My RRA works for me, fit my budget, and will be a fun addition to the family for years to come.
winknplink
Member
Sure. I'm also familiar with the term "cost efficiency" too. The fact remains that the same contract that went to Colt went to RRA, which means somebody, somewhere, who knows more and is more important than both of us, puts both manufacturers on the same basic level. But feel free to keep slinging mud.
Sebastian the Ibis
Member
As benezra said, it is a preference. If you want chrome lined, they will sell you chrome lined. If you want a NM rifle, you wouldn't want it. It is ridiculous to criticize a company for giving you a choice.
Again a preference. Get the barrel that matches the bullet you want to shoot, not what someone else wants to shoot.
I would hardly call preferences problems.
What is your problem with this? I would rather 3-4 officers have DPMS rifles over one officer having a Noveske. Also, I'm sure that you can explain to the officers that selected those rifles, after probably shooting 20k + rounds a year through every brand on the market, why your favorite rifle brand is so much better based upon real life experiences and not a chart you found on the interweb.
Bass Ackwardz
Member
Having 2 built AR's that have quality parts on them, and then owning a RRA, I can say the RRA is a decent rifle for the money. The other two were in the $1300-1400 range and are the cream of the crop. I wanted a beater to let my wife and daughter use. I ended up putting a Denny's enhanced M16 BCG in it and changed some furniture. I now have $1300 into it. Did I need to change the furniture, obviously not, but the BCG was a must. Is the RRA now as good as my customs? Maybe, but for the money I would spend a couple hundred more and get something that didnt need upgraded parts before a shot was fired. Just my .02...
Bass
Bass
Welding Rod
Member
What broke on the original?
Bass Ackwardz
Member
Nothing broke, but the gas key wasnt even close to properly staked, and the bolt they use isnt MPI tested. I had a cheap BCG my friend bought at a gun show last year, the bolt snapped in half before he fired 200 rounds out of it.
Bass
Bass
Welding Rod
Member
I see.
Was it a CMT / Rock River BCG that broke?
Was it a CMT / Rock River BCG that broke?
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