A shame... But I try, even in the face of what I deem as illogical reasoning, I try my darndest to assume the person is not an idiot. Maybe this or that, but not an idiot. If they can construct even a semblance of an argument, they are not idiots. Too bad he let the pettiness get to him. He was a worthy person, he'll be missed.
Americans Killed in Iraq Mutilated and Desecrated
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jimpeel
Member
fix
In your handle's sake, stay fixed on the wheat. Don't let the chaff win. Unfortunately, hapafish lost that battle.
In your handle's sake, stay fixed on the wheat. Don't let the chaff win. Unfortunately, hapafish lost that battle.
The big problem is that many are still trying to define this war in the context other wars. If you can't understand that this war is just as dangerous to America because the enemy is hidden from plain sight then you are playing into their plan.
No. But maybe thousands of terrorists. I don't care what their religious beliefs are. If they actively participate in terror attacks or actively aid & abet those who do, then they qualify. Just like the former Iraqi government.
jimpeel
Member
Paco
As intelligent as he was, and as cogent his arguments, he let the demons win. There was just no reasoning that racists have the right to be racists as long as they harm noone with their ideology. Unfortunately, the newfound "right" not to be offended, or have your feelings hurt, won out.
Political correctness will be the downfall of this nation as the adherants to PC are a growing political force.
As intelligent as he was, and as cogent his arguments, he let the demons win. There was just no reasoning that racists have the right to be racists as long as they harm noone with their ideology. Unfortunately, the newfound "right" not to be offended, or have your feelings hurt, won out.
Political correctness will be the downfall of this nation as the adherants to PC are a growing political force.
El Rojo
Member
Why do you want me to tell you that? Has anyone read my posts? I never said give them a time out. I never said let them go. I said kill them. The only thing I haven't said is kill everyone who is in the area too. For every innocent kid you kill, there is going to be about 20 relatives who now want a pay back. Just like for every contractor they kill, there are plenty of Americans who want pay back. Would it be any different with any of you? If an invading army just started wiping out your innocent relatives, would you be cool with that? Would you turn in the rest of your "bad" relatives so no more people would be hurt? Or would you kill some Iraqis as they have "invaded" your country and killed your innocent relatives? Sure if they have taken up arms against us, they are not innocent. However, when you level a whole city, tell me some innocents are not going to die. Heck, enough innocent people get whacked right now as it is. Sometimes life just sucks. However, making your policy to kill anyone and everyone is bad form and will not help convince the populace of your cause. Hence that is why some Iraqis are turning in the people behind the bombings because they are killing fellow Iraqis.
That is the writings of a smart and reasonable law enforcement officer. No sarcasm. Your original quote only talked about an aggressive or combatative stance. Hell you must get into a lot of fights in that case, just about everyone you run into probably has an agressive or combatative stance. Then later you say anyone who actively and violently resists arrrest. Yes the stance is a good indicator and usually leads up to the next, but a simple "nasty look" or a "if you don't relax I am going to consider that you want to do bodily harm to me" will convince the guy to stand down. And if it doesn't, then you use reasonable force on that person and anyone else who is a threat. You don't start taking out the whole block.
Your best line was "The proper response is to respond with the minimum force necessary to get the person to stop what they are doing, and to submit to lawful apprehension." That sounds ever so reasonable. If these terrorists have decided to use force, then we all know there is a very good chance they are going to have to be stopped with lethal force. None of us are against this principle. Especially none of us who carry a gun around in public. You carry yours on duty, I carry mine concealed. I know that some people cannot be reasoned with. I also know that not everyone is evil and that if I have to shoot some bad guy in Taco Bell, I don't tell the worker behind the counter, "If you don't make him surrender, I am going to kill you both." I shoot the bad guy, then if the worker behind the counter gets pissed because that was his cousin that he had arranged to rob the place and he reaches for his counsin's gun, then I use the minimum force necessary to get the worker to stop. It just happens to be my Glock 27.
Here is the good news. I was just reading an article on Fox News. The Marines have surrounded Fallujah and they are getting ready to go in and start catching/killing insurgents. "Our concern is precise. We want to get the guys we are after. We don't want to go in there with guns blazing," said Lt. James Vanzant (search), 2nd Battalion, 1st Marine Expeditionary Force from Camp Pendleton, Calif." Wow, he didn't call for taking out the whole city. He must not want to win the war or he wants to tell the terrorists that they are justified in killing Americans right? Or the US government is doing exactly what I have been saying we should do. Use force, but use calculated force on the guilty parties.
The thing we haven't been thinking about is this. What kind of intelligence have we been receiving since this attack? Could it be there are plenty of people who didn't agree with this act and they are feeding the Iraqi police and US military with lots of info and names? Of course we haven't heard about it beacuse you don't announce who your sources are. We ought to let this one lie and see what happens over the next few days and then start a new thread talking about how "effective" the US response has been.
TaurusCIA said:
I don't care what their religious beliefs are.
-Bells and Glory!
Bingo!
This is the WHOLE point: right here. Yeeeehaw! Couldn't have said it better. Just because it's a religious thing for those few thousand, doesn't mean we need to make it into a religious or race thing. Almost all the nasties through-out history have used religion as a vehicle for their form of government or the atrocities they committed. Heck, even the KKK readily use the Bible to back their points. Huh? Yeah, I know Jesus wasn't a white guy (and he was a BIG peacenik) but you'd think he was what with all the purtee drawings of him in so many churches.
-I think it's good TaurusCIA, that one understands why such and such an a oppponent is attacking. It will make it easier to properly hamstring the oppponent's efforts. Just don't get caught up in their reasoning: keep a clear head.
-I've said it before and I'll say it again
on't force them, just SHOW them want they could have with a capitalistic government IE McDonalds, Coke, Pringles etc, etc. For now, rush to set a government that will at least float for a few years and then introduce them to our lifestyle. Not that our lifestyle is better, but it's much harder to blow yourself up if you have a comfortable, well-fed, well-educated life.
-I don't think anyone on either threads felt this was in anyway a parrallel of any war in the past. One can draw certain parallels simply because it's yet another human conflict. But this is a new thing, because of the tools of the trade and the accessiblity of the world. Fanatisism is an old demon and fear of what is not directly under one's control is another. This whole ditty has just begun...
-BTW someone mentioned in the other thread the since we've not been attacked since Afganistan, that proves that things are better. I dunno... I remember when the WTCs were bombed in 1993: I hope you remember the massive crater in the parking lot. That was the last successful attack in the continental US before 9/11, but let's not forget the Cole or the US embassy or barracks. It's just too early to assess if the actions taken in the last 3 years have been successful. IMHO, there will definetely be more. This is gonna be the new age of warfare; no more conventional knock-down drag 'em out fights. Ideology against ideology coupled with the occasional skirmish and act of desperation IE terrorism or carpet bombing innocents. Why? Because most of the world is converting to capitalism and getting nice and comfy with all the goodies one can by: slowly, but surely. War costs too much money. It shakes up the economy too much. I guess a war-time economy could still work if it was a conventional war not in the continental US, but this war is more personal and spans the globe as a virtual enemy. Good luck us!
-paco
I don't care what their religious beliefs are.
-Bells and Glory!
Bingo!
This is the WHOLE point: right here. Yeeeehaw! Couldn't have said it better. Just because it's a religious thing for those few thousand, doesn't mean we need to make it into a religious or race thing. Almost all the nasties through-out history have used religion as a vehicle for their form of government or the atrocities they committed. Heck, even the KKK readily use the Bible to back their points. Huh? Yeah, I know Jesus wasn't a white guy (and he was a BIG peacenik) but you'd think he was what with all the purtee drawings of him in so many churches.
-I think it's good TaurusCIA, that one understands why such and such an a oppponent is attacking. It will make it easier to properly hamstring the oppponent's efforts. Just don't get caught up in their reasoning: keep a clear head.
-I've said it before and I'll say it again
on't force them, just SHOW them want they could have with a capitalistic government IE McDonalds, Coke, Pringles etc, etc. For now, rush to set a government that will at least float for a few years and then introduce them to our lifestyle. Not that our lifestyle is better, but it's much harder to blow yourself up if you have a comfortable, well-fed, well-educated life.-I don't think anyone on either threads felt this was in anyway a parrallel of any war in the past. One can draw certain parallels simply because it's yet another human conflict. But this is a new thing, because of the tools of the trade and the accessiblity of the world. Fanatisism is an old demon and fear of what is not directly under one's control is another. This whole ditty has just begun...
-BTW someone mentioned in the other thread the since we've not been attacked since Afganistan, that proves that things are better. I dunno... I remember when the WTCs were bombed in 1993: I hope you remember the massive crater in the parking lot. That was the last successful attack in the continental US before 9/11, but let's not forget the Cole or the US embassy or barracks. It's just too early to assess if the actions taken in the last 3 years have been successful. IMHO, there will definetely be more. This is gonna be the new age of warfare; no more conventional knock-down drag 'em out fights. Ideology against ideology coupled with the occasional skirmish and act of desperation IE terrorism or carpet bombing innocents. Why? Because most of the world is converting to capitalism and getting nice and comfy with all the goodies one can by: slowly, but surely. War costs too much money. It shakes up the economy too much. I guess a war-time economy could still work if it was a conventional war not in the continental US, but this war is more personal and spans the globe as a virtual enemy. Good luck us!
-paco
longeyes
member
The world religion is consumerism. Our suicide bombers die of diabetes, killing the bank accounts of fellow family members and our health care system. At some point the world will be one great shopping mall with sections set apart for religion breaks (rather like the food sections of today) and protest rooms for the troublemakers.
I knew there was some common ground somewhere.
Can't we all just get along. I am very white on the outside but have very ethnically diverse blood on the inside. From my own heritage I know you can't judge a book by its cover.
And just as every professing Christian is not the same (some radical terrorists, some passive apologists) neither are all Muslims the same. Lets keep our eyes focused on the War on Terror and not the race or religion of those involved. When they use their religious/race affiliation to justify their actions then address that argument and not the religion/race as a whole.
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Harry Tuttle
Member
- Joined
- Nov 14, 2003
- Messages
- 3,093
its quite scarey what a group of "civilized" humans will do once riled up...
http://www.nefilm.com/news/archives/03september/davis.htm
http://www.cnn.com/2000/US/01/18/lynching.photography/
http://www.nefilm.com/news/archives/03september/davis.htm
http://www.cnn.com/2000/US/01/18/lynching.photography/
russlate
Member
If the Iraqi's stoop to mob rule, rioting and burning , the answer to riots should not be water cannon but flamethrowers.
I beleive they would take the point.
They may never forgive us. So what? They would no longer theaten to immolate us if we in return fought them back with fire and raised the ante a hundredfold.
Forgive me if I repeat someone else's reply. Didn't have time to read all other replys.
Let like beget like.
I beleive they would take the point.
They may never forgive us. So what? They would no longer theaten to immolate us if we in return fought them back with fire and raised the ante a hundredfold.
Forgive me if I repeat someone else's reply. Didn't have time to read all other replys.
Let like beget like.
joab
Member
Hollywood Huh? Not bad predicting for a potbellied posturing armchair commando
At daylight, Marines in armored Humvees began distributing leaflets asking residents to stay in their homes and help identify insurgents and those responsible for last week's killings. They also took over the local radio station and used bullhorns to get the message out.
FALLOUJA, Iraq — Thousands of Marines surrounded this anti-American stronghold early today and began moving in to retake control of the city and apprehend those responsible for last week's slayings of four U.S. security contractors. http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/nationworld/la-fg-fallouja5apr05,0,4790197.story?coll=orl-news-headlines
joab
Member
Harry Tuttle
What's your point? That because a bunch of ignorant people did this same type of thing here 100 years ago and got away with it we should let these Iraqis get away with it.
Or is it that because we see it now as atrocities we should respond as such.
That's as close to a link to this issue as I can come up with even with th greatest of stretches.
What's your point? That because a bunch of ignorant people did this same type of thing here 100 years ago and got away with it we should let these Iraqis get away with it.
Or is it that because we see it now as atrocities we should respond as such.
That's as close to a link to this issue as I can come up with even with th greatest of stretches.
Harry Tuttle
Member
- Joined
- Nov 14, 2003
- Messages
- 3,093
my point is that once the mob mentality takes over, civilization rapidly decends into chaos.
Some of the American lynch and burn events were within the last 50 years.
Take a look at the smiling faces on the crowds bringing their children
to see the burned "evil" people.
i see the same look in the eyes of Fallouja.
Some of the American lynch and burn events were within the last 50 years.
Take a look at the smiling faces on the crowds bringing their children
to see the burned "evil" people.
i see the same look in the eyes of Fallouja.
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