"America's Gun Culture Must Change"
- Thread starter Seawolf
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Deacon Blues
Member
Eh, what?
Is this guy really an anti? If this was written anonymously, I would be almost certain that it was a pro-2A poisoning the well. How could you put your name to such purposeless tripe?
Someone tell me he didn't really compare gun ownership with human embryo harvesting.
cnorman18
Member
My email to Donnelly
The site wouldn't let me post my comment, so I emailed it to this kid. Any reply I receive will be posted here, but I wouldn't hold my breath.
Dear Mr, Donnelly,
Your column was long on stereotyping and prejudice, but woefully short on facts. Here are a few you might want to try to work into your thinking on this issue:
The UK has totally outlawed handguns. The result? Their much-heralded low rate of violent crime is now higher than ours. Look it up.
EVERY state that has instituted a Concealed Carry law has seen a sharp drop in violent crime.
In those states, virtually no CCW permit holders have been arrested for ANY crime. Virtually none have had their licenses revoked.
On the other hand, the jurisdictions with the most stringent gun controls consistently have the highest rates of violent crime.
These are not arguable statistics; they are facts from government records.
You want to outlaw guns entirely? Fine. What will you do when government agents come to search YOUR home? Oh, you don't have a gun? Sorry, there's no way to verify that. Your home will be searched anyway. The only way to get rid of ALL the guns will be nationwide house-to-house searches--without warrants, by the way. Is that okay with you?
And that wouldn't work either, as a moment's thought would tell you. As soon as word gets out that this is happening, legal and illegal guns alike will be going into hiding--buried in back yards or on public lands, or hidden in houses that have already been searched. A simultaneous nationwide search is clearly impossible.
Guns in private hands prevent more crimes than they cause. I know you don't believe those statistics--for no better reason that that you don't WANT to, which is of course no reason at all--but I can tell you this; my own ownership of a firearm has saved my life and my family's thee times. One was a threatened street attack which ended when I merely displayed my gun. Another was a home invasion; two men broke into our house while we were in bed, and fled at the sound of my chambering a round. The third was a threatened attack from a mentally ill person who decided not to carry it out when informed that I was generally armed.
Unless and until you can find a way to disarm 100% of armed criminals, who will NOT meekly turn in their weapons when some new law is passed, it simply makes no objective sense to disarm peaceful, law-abiding people who have never, and will never, use any weapon in an irresponsible or criminal manner.
Do you actually know anyone who owns a gun? Or is your blatantly skewed and distorted image of gun owners purely a product of anti-gun propaganda and your own prejudice? I suggest you visit a gun range and take some time to actually meet and get to know some gun owners. You will find that, by and large, we are neither savages nor ignorant, bloodthirsty rednecks (and I cannot help but wonder how you would react to stereotyping of any other group as vicious and hostile as you have displayed here).
Oh--and before I close, I'd like to note for the record that I'm pro-choice, pro-gay marriage, pro-government funding of stem-cell research, and I don't think there's any doubt that evolution is a fact (I think that's the dumbest argument on the public agenda). I have put my life "on hold" to care for an elderly friend, 24-7, because he cannot afford the kind of care he needs. I bathe daily, do not follow any sport, and listen to classical music. Sorry to mess up your stereotype--but there are millions like me, and very few who fit the nasty, viciously prejudiced and hate-filled image you are trying to promote here.
I'm sure you have received some comments and emails that are rude and insulting. I regret that; on the other hand, when you smear and libel people, they are not likely to react by sending you flowers. My own communication here is, I think you will agree, respectful and civil.
Please give this matter a little more thought. I would not expect you to change your mind, but I would expect that, as a matter of intellectual honesty, that you will at least admit that there are arguments on the other side that are reasoned, rational, logical, intelligent and more than mere bloodthirsty savagery, as you have indicated here.
If you can only make your case by smearing your opponents while ignoring their actual arguments--well, it might be reasonable to conclude that you have no real case, only unthinking prejudice and groundless stereotypes.
Sincerely,
Charles Norman
The site wouldn't let me post my comment, so I emailed it to this kid. Any reply I receive will be posted here, but I wouldn't hold my breath.
Dear Mr, Donnelly,
Your column was long on stereotyping and prejudice, but woefully short on facts. Here are a few you might want to try to work into your thinking on this issue:
The UK has totally outlawed handguns. The result? Their much-heralded low rate of violent crime is now higher than ours. Look it up.
EVERY state that has instituted a Concealed Carry law has seen a sharp drop in violent crime.
In those states, virtually no CCW permit holders have been arrested for ANY crime. Virtually none have had their licenses revoked.
On the other hand, the jurisdictions with the most stringent gun controls consistently have the highest rates of violent crime.
These are not arguable statistics; they are facts from government records.
You want to outlaw guns entirely? Fine. What will you do when government agents come to search YOUR home? Oh, you don't have a gun? Sorry, there's no way to verify that. Your home will be searched anyway. The only way to get rid of ALL the guns will be nationwide house-to-house searches--without warrants, by the way. Is that okay with you?
And that wouldn't work either, as a moment's thought would tell you. As soon as word gets out that this is happening, legal and illegal guns alike will be going into hiding--buried in back yards or on public lands, or hidden in houses that have already been searched. A simultaneous nationwide search is clearly impossible.
Guns in private hands prevent more crimes than they cause. I know you don't believe those statistics--for no better reason that that you don't WANT to, which is of course no reason at all--but I can tell you this; my own ownership of a firearm has saved my life and my family's thee times. One was a threatened street attack which ended when I merely displayed my gun. Another was a home invasion; two men broke into our house while we were in bed, and fled at the sound of my chambering a round. The third was a threatened attack from a mentally ill person who decided not to carry it out when informed that I was generally armed.
Unless and until you can find a way to disarm 100% of armed criminals, who will NOT meekly turn in their weapons when some new law is passed, it simply makes no objective sense to disarm peaceful, law-abiding people who have never, and will never, use any weapon in an irresponsible or criminal manner.
Do you actually know anyone who owns a gun? Or is your blatantly skewed and distorted image of gun owners purely a product of anti-gun propaganda and your own prejudice? I suggest you visit a gun range and take some time to actually meet and get to know some gun owners. You will find that, by and large, we are neither savages nor ignorant, bloodthirsty rednecks (and I cannot help but wonder how you would react to stereotyping of any other group as vicious and hostile as you have displayed here).
Oh--and before I close, I'd like to note for the record that I'm pro-choice, pro-gay marriage, pro-government funding of stem-cell research, and I don't think there's any doubt that evolution is a fact (I think that's the dumbest argument on the public agenda). I have put my life "on hold" to care for an elderly friend, 24-7, because he cannot afford the kind of care he needs. I bathe daily, do not follow any sport, and listen to classical music. Sorry to mess up your stereotype--but there are millions like me, and very few who fit the nasty, viciously prejudiced and hate-filled image you are trying to promote here.
I'm sure you have received some comments and emails that are rude and insulting. I regret that; on the other hand, when you smear and libel people, they are not likely to react by sending you flowers. My own communication here is, I think you will agree, respectful and civil.
Please give this matter a little more thought. I would not expect you to change your mind, but I would expect that, as a matter of intellectual honesty, that you will at least admit that there are arguments on the other side that are reasoned, rational, logical, intelligent and more than mere bloodthirsty savagery, as you have indicated here.
If you can only make your case by smearing your opponents while ignoring their actual arguments--well, it might be reasonable to conclude that you have no real case, only unthinking prejudice and groundless stereotypes.
Sincerely,
Charles Norman
40SW
Member
Cnorman18:
That was an exceptional letter. Very well done, from one wordcraftsman to another. I hope he responds, who knows, sometimes we make a difference, even with the irrational.
That was an exceptional letter. Very well done, from one wordcraftsman to another. I hope he responds, who knows, sometimes we make a difference, even with the irrational.
MrPeter
Member
Wow, no way. I read into the third paragraph and I just stopped.
I just... can't.. do that to my brain...
I just... can't.. do that to my brain...
ArcherandShooter
Member
Me, too
I, too, have my first degree in Poli Sci. Not only that, I got it from UConn, where I used to be a staff photographer for this very same newspaper!
You see, there IS hope for people to grow up!
I, too, have my first degree in Poli Sci. Not only that, I got it from UConn, where I used to be a staff photographer for this very same newspaper!
You see, there IS hope for people to grow up!
Some folks sure have a twisted out look on life. His whole focus should have a indictment society not an inanimate object. I guess that should be expected coming from a university that specializes in basket weaving -basket weaving (a UConn specialty). What happened to higher education?
Excuse me I was under the impression the 2nd amendment along with the other 9 amendments in The Bill of Rights was written to endorse our God given rights. The right to protect our family, ourselves, and our country. The right to provide for our family. The right to assure America remains free.
I guess what sticks in my craw most is these people don't understand is all 10 amendments are interlocked when one goes it only a matter of time before they all fall. How long does he think will the 1st amendment will survive without the 2nd?
If any of them, amendments, are to survive we better make sure the next generation has a more accurate understanding of history or our grandchildren will not be a free people.
Excuse me I was under the impression the 2nd amendment along with the other 9 amendments in The Bill of Rights was written to endorse our God given rights. The right to protect our family, ourselves, and our country. The right to provide for our family. The right to assure America remains free.
I guess what sticks in my craw most is these people don't understand is all 10 amendments are interlocked when one goes it only a matter of time before they all fall. How long does he think will the 1st amendment will survive without the 2nd?
If any of them, amendments, are to survive we better make sure the next generation has a more accurate understanding of history or our grandchildren will not be a free people.
cnorman18
Member
There is hope for Donnelly
I think that antis like Donnelly ARE worth our time. It seems clear that he hasn't really thought about the issue very much, and that his views are merely unexamined prejudice and stereotyping. He can be educated--if he has retained enough integrity and intellectual honesty to have it--and he might even come over to our side someday.
The real intractables are the ones who KNOW the facts and are busy finding ways to conceal or distort them; who have no compunctions about manufacturing false and deliberately misleading propaganda, because they know that honest debate does not favor their cause. In short, the ones who made this kid what he is now.
Sometimes, people like Donnelly, when they realize what a bill of goods they've been sold, come around.; when they know the facts, they're furious at having been deliberately misled, and have the integrity to change their position.
Sometimes they merely join the liars and help them lie.
But there is hope for the ones who haven't actually thought about it yet, but only parroted the views that they think are fashionable with the crowd they hang with. I have little doubt that this kid is one of those. I doubt if he's ever seen a legitimate argument against gun control before today; he's only been told there aren't any, and he's believed it. We'll soon see what he's made of.
I think that antis like Donnelly ARE worth our time. It seems clear that he hasn't really thought about the issue very much, and that his views are merely unexamined prejudice and stereotyping. He can be educated--if he has retained enough integrity and intellectual honesty to have it--and he might even come over to our side someday.
The real intractables are the ones who KNOW the facts and are busy finding ways to conceal or distort them; who have no compunctions about manufacturing false and deliberately misleading propaganda, because they know that honest debate does not favor their cause. In short, the ones who made this kid what he is now.
Sometimes, people like Donnelly, when they realize what a bill of goods they've been sold, come around.; when they know the facts, they're furious at having been deliberately misled, and have the integrity to change their position.
Sometimes they merely join the liars and help them lie.
But there is hope for the ones who haven't actually thought about it yet, but only parroted the views that they think are fashionable with the crowd they hang with. I have little doubt that this kid is one of those. I doubt if he's ever seen a legitimate argument against gun control before today; he's only been told there aren't any, and he's believed it. We'll soon see what he's made of.
Last edited:
frankcostanza
Member
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- Jul 27, 2007
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- 268
this might be the worst article i have ever read regarding 2A. 
whats even worse though, is that many of the pro gun people posting comments in regards to his "article" are stooping to the same level as the author. as infuriating as this particular piece of writing is, hurling insults back at the writer does more harm than good. props to benezra for taking the high road in his reply to the article.
whats even worse though, is that many of the pro gun people posting comments in regards to his "article" are stooping to the same level as the author. as infuriating as this particular piece of writing is, hurling insults back at the writer does more harm than good. props to benezra for taking the high road in his reply to the article.revjen45
Member
This crock of tripe was so absurd that I thought it was a parody of the typical Brady/VPC twaddle. Another puerile nascent socialist who believes he is so smart that he can think for all the rest of us.
MKEITH
Member
cnorman18, hats off man, very well said.I think this guy is just weak minded. He said he has seen someone die, and through the context of his writing, we are led to believe that it came from a violent crime. Nw, if this happens to be the case, there are generaly two types of reactions to such an event. One would be to say to one's self that you will not allow such a thing to ever happen to you if you can in any way prevent it. At that point actions would be taken to help protect yourself, probobly including obtaining a firearm for protection. The other reaction is to simply cover your head and beg for all evile to just "go away".At best, he is this second type of person. At worst, this is the type of person who will be teaching our future generations.
Black Adder LXX
Member
Wow-what an idiot!
Cnorman18:Nice reply. Definitely more than that naive pubescent deserves...
Cnorman18:Nice reply. Definitely more than that naive pubescent deserves...
SoCalShooter
Member
I read it. Its not a rational argument and he is obviously dillusional. You can read all the books you want and create some form of an opinion from them until you hit reality.
re:cnorman18
Right on. Perhaps someone in his area should invite him shooting.
re:cnorman18
Right on. Perhaps someone in his area should invite him shooting.
Black Adder LXX
Member
"Do not answer a fool according to his folly, Lest you also be like him."
Proverbs 26.4
Proverbs 26.4
SoCalShooter
Member
RE: armed bear
I know a lot of college educated people and a lot of college students (considering I am one) and honestly they happen to be some of the dumbest people I have ever met. They tend to throw rational thought out the window and rely on the books or the professor/teachers lectures they were given a long time ago...its like noone ever formulates their own idea or own opinion anymore in college. I am at the point where I think college is no longer a place of enlightenment just job training.
I know a lot of college educated people and a lot of college students (considering I am one) and honestly they happen to be some of the dumbest people I have ever met. They tend to throw rational thought out the window and rely on the books or the professor/teachers lectures they were given a long time ago...its like noone ever formulates their own idea or own opinion anymore in college. I am at the point where I think college is no longer a place of enlightenment just job training.
SoCal, I agree. I see it, too. A lot.
Soon, you may find that it is neither. At least, not in the way that they claim it is. What you really learn is often unrelated to your classwork.
It is, however, a great way to prolong your childhood into what used to be middle age. We in 21st Century America live in far greater luxury than we realize.
Soon, you may find that it is neither.
At least, not in the way that they claim it is. What you really learn is often unrelated to your classwork.It is, however, a great way to prolong your childhood into what used to be middle age. We in 21st Century America live in far greater luxury than we realize.
scurtis_34471
Member
I just went back and read the newest responses. This guy is getting owned. My response was downright polite compared to most of bashing this guy is taking for that insipid editorial he wrote.
MD_Willington
Member
"America's Gun Culture Must Change"
Yeah, it should, I'd like to see more people buying AR, AK's, 30 round magazines... I mean only bambi & donald duck killers buy sporting arms {/sarcasm...
I work with people from all walks of life from all over the world... America, is like Disneyland for these people!
Yeah, it should, I'd like to see more people buying AR, AK's, 30 round magazines... I mean only bambi & donald duck killers buy sporting arms {/sarcasm...
ArmedBear said:
I work with people from all walks of life from all over the world... America, is like Disneyland for these people!
lanternlad1
Member
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This 'guy' is a CHILD. A fifth-semester student. (I'd guess 18-19 years old)He is not a real journalist, nor even an adult. He is not someone to be argued with, but a child to be slapped and sent to his room for spouting nonsense. By all of you writing to him, you have validated his already over-inflated sense of self importantance.
"See, I can REALLY tick people off if I want."
And so, you have fallen into his trap.
His ignorant ears will not hear your teachings, nor will he be swayed from his rantings by your letters.
I believe you are all wasting your time. I hope that I am wrong.
"See, I can REALLY tick people off if I want."
And so, you have fallen into his trap.
His ignorant ears will not hear your teachings, nor will he be swayed from his rantings by your letters.
I believe you are all wasting your time. I hope that I am wrong.
WuzYoungOnceToo
member
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- Sep 6, 2007
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So, by your estimation he entered college 2-3 years before most students graduate from high school? Did his writing impress you so much that you think he's an academic prodigy?
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