Another "Battle Rifle" thread

[Springfield03A4]

Alright, due to a recent circumstance I am free of all financial obligation. No bills, no car payments, et cetera. Due to this freedom I've decided to spend my money on a higher-up, more expensive rifle. I was considering the M1A Socom II, and dropping it into the SAGE International stock. I've also heard about the H&K 91, or FAL's. Recently I've been looking at Daniel Defense AR-15s (Although not a battle rifle, they are quite nice). The role I'm looking for this rifle to fufil is a s.h.t.f. rifle, and if need be defense. I appreciate all comments and insight, and also, pictures are good.

+Edit: I haven't considered most AR-15's because the world of AR-15's is vast and numerous. I've never spent the time tackling which brand is right, because with thatm any options I'd rather shoot them and find which one I'm comfortable with rather than purchase, dislike, sell, rinse, lather, repeat. I'm sure most people have their own favorite AR-type rifle. Anywhere from Ruger 556 to Barret REC7 to the Ruger 10/22 with the Arch-angel stock kit (If you call that an AR, that is). Thank you again!

 

[unwise11]

Get that sweet socom II
I've handled one, and I have to say I like it, but I'd rather have one without the heavyer rails

 

[Springfield03A4]

The only issue I have with it is it's weight. In the SAGE stock I think it weighs roughly thirteen pounds. But yes, I have handled one and must say I do like it.

 

[DANGERRUSS]

Do you have an AR? If you have one in 22 get a .308 AR the controls will be the same. Look at the LWRC's very sweet!

 

[Z-Michigan]

Mission drives the gear. Apart from the standard roving-zombie scenario, what specific tasks are you looking to accomplish?

Or do you just want the coolest, most fun boomstick for range and plinking use? (Serious question, not meant to be insulting).

 

[Springfield03A4]

The only rifle I have is a yet to be indentified Turkish Mauser, I believe it's a Gewehr '88. I have shot it, and figure a .308 can't kick worse than that, so I feel comfortable around there. That and a Walther P22,

 

[Springfield03A4]

I do want to have a little bragging-right with it, because it's a nice rifle. But I want a powerful rifle that can be used all around. S.H.T.F., (z-poc would be cool), hunting if need be, home defense (I am aware the .308 is a bit much in the name of home defense), and the like. It's for an all around purpose.

 

[Fleet]

Go to a shoot (the Appleseed Project is good) that qualifies you to buy an M-1 Garand from Uncle Sugar. You can buy the ammo there too. Save lots of cash, and have a militarily significant caliber at the same time. You'll also have something that a bit of dust and dirt won't bother. Up to you to learn how to shoot it.

 

[avs11054]

If I had no financial obligations, I would save up for a few months and get a FA gun for maybe around $8000 such as the ruger 556. But if you're just looking for a HD SHTF gun, maybe a real HK MP5 semi auto gun. That'd be a pretty sweet gun to bust out from behind the bed when you hear the front door get kicked in

 

[MCMXI]

and figure a .308 can't kick worse than that, so I feel comfortable around there.

What you'll find with many .308 Win (7.62x51mm NATO) semi-auto "battle" rifles is that felt recoil is minimal. I have an M1A Scout, DSA FAL and a POF P308 and if a 5', 100lb woman can shoot them with ease, then just about anyone can! (I should clarify that I'm NOT a 5', 100lb woman, I just happen to know one who can shoot!). Anyway, based on what you've stated so far, it seems that an AR of some form would fit the bill ... maybe in .308 Win. How about an FN SCAR 17S? There's a chance that at some point you'll be able to buy a longer barrel in the same or a different chambering.

 

[taliv]

I have an M1A Scout, DSA FAL and a POF P308 and if a 5', 100lb woman can shoot them with ease, then just about anyone can!

for some reason, i pictured you as much larger and manlier

 

[Springfield03A4]

Very well put. I also like the idea of the extra stopping power. Like the .45 ACP over the 9mm, you know both are fatal, but that extra insurance is a nice re-assurance. Would you reccomend the M1A Scout? It's similar to the SOCOM models.

 

[MCMXI]

for some reason, i pictured you as much larger and manlier

Dammit ... I didn't fix my post in time. My ex-wife fits those dimensions and I can assure you, I am much larger and manlier!!

 

[MCMXI]

Would you reccomend the M1A Scout? It's similar to the SOCOM models.

Personally, I'd buy another SCOUT rather than a SOCOM 16. Here's mine. If only my FAL came with a trigger like the M1A.

 

[mshootnit]

I really like my M1a's but I would also strongly consider a Vepr converted into an Ace sidefolder. I had one of those and it was fantastic and definitely ready for SHTF. A buddy said it was definitely lighter than his FAL Its basically a semi auto 308 version of the RPK machine gun so you know its ready to rock. Parts and mags are scarce though... A 21" Saiga 308 would be similar but not quite as smooth. With an optic you should get 3.5 inch groups at 220 yds. More than adequate.

 

[Springfield03A4]

For the record, I am looking to (if I get the M1A) replace the stock. I'm looking for a compact rifle. And as well, I believe the SOCOM's barrel is shorter than that of the Scout's? Correct me if I'm wrong, please. I don't want to make a two-thousand dollar mistake. Thanks everybody, keep them coming!


+Very nice rifle 1858, she's beautiful.

 

[fireside44]

In the SAGE stock I think it weighs roughly thirteen pounds.

Sweet. Once I add all my accessories on it I can start shopping for a vehicle to mount it to.

I'm looking for a compact rifle. And as well, I believe the SOCOM's barrel is shorter than that of the Scout's?

Fal rifle with 16" or 18" barrel. Short barrel with no pistol grip doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

 

[MistWolf]

What is your budget? It's well & good to tell you to get sonmething really hardcore cool like a KAC SR25 or an SEI M14 with an LRB receiver, but that advise will do you know good if all you have is $1500. For $1500 you could get an AR10A4 but you'll need a few extra bucks for sights.

A few things to keep in mind-
It's all well & good to go 16" on the barrel for a 5.56x45 or 7.62x39 or even all the way down to 14.5 with a pinned muzzle device. It's quite another to do it with the 7.62x51. In a 16" barrel the concussion is more than impressive. The shortest I would go with the 308 battlerifle is 18" and DO NOT PUT A MUZZLE BRAKE OR COMPENSATOR ON IT! The exception would be the BABC, from all reports, but I haven't had a chance to test one personally yet. Still waiting for the one they are custom threading to fit my Para Fal.

Before you get your first 7.62x51 battlerifle, I suggest you check out the following websites and do your research.

For M14s, go to http://m14tfl.com/upload/
For Fals go to http://www.falfiles.com/forums/ They can help you with HKs & 308 type ARs as well.
For HKs go to http://hkpro.com/forum/
For 308 ARs go to http://www.m4carbine.net/forumdisplay.php?f=10

I have three of these battlerifle types and plan to get the fourth. I love them all.

Of the four, the M14 is the Rifleman's Rifle. It requires that you get to know it and know it well to best serve you. If you want easy optics, she's not your gal. If you want the best battle sights without optics, she is.

The Fal is The Tool. Nothing fancy, just simple straight forward rifle and as issued is as good as she is going to get. She's already as accurate, reliable and durable as she's going to get. Period. She's good at getting the job done in a no nonsense fashion. You'll need the right dust cover to install optics and the battlesights are good enough. Not as accurate as the M14 but better for a "Non Rifleman".

The HK91 is reliable, accurate, and has a very unique Teutonic personality. Where the M14 is the Rifleman's Rifle, you almost have to be German to get the most from the HK. Instead of choosing to make a gas operated design streamlined to simplify it and make it robust, they chose to start with a simple blow back design and make it more complicated.

The 308 AR has come a long way in reliability and durability. It's always been accurate. It rewards the Rifleman with better accuracy than the M14 without penalizing the shooter who just needs a tool. It requires some special knowledge to keep it running in top form without added complexity or strange quirks. The AR is easier to mount optics or any other sights, widgets, gadgets & doodads than the others. Some feel TOO easy!

Do a bit of research & see whatcha like

Oh, by the way and most importantly- AKs suck. Hard

 

[Sky]

A different way of thinking maybe? By a functional less than $1000 rifle and take the rest of your money and buy silver....Now if SHTF or if roving zombie bands start bugging you send out a thread and let us know where you are. Many will come. Supper is on you. Congratulations on being debt free!!

 

[TonyAngel]

I'm a big fan of the AR platform. It's kind of like an erector set for grown ups. The big advantage to the AR, I suppose in a SHTF sense, is that parts are plentiful and keeping it running won't be hard. Just be sure to buy good parts. If you don't know what to look at, I'll mention a few. I don't think that you could go wrong with any of them. I mention these because I've had personal experience with them and know them to be quality firearms that their vendors stand behind with a passion.

In no particular order, Bravo Company, Spike's Tactical and Daniel Defense. If money is no object, then I'd look at Noveske. All are battle quality rifles. I've never run a Noveske through the ringer, but have shot a few and their reputation speaks for itself. All of the others that I have mentioned have proven themselves to be Tony-proof. Believe me, if it can't be broken, I can break it and these have run really well.

As for stopping power, there's nothing wrong with an AR shooting 77gr rounds. It'll sting ya. I like the .308. Everyone should have one of those too, but I just have memories of Katrina and having to be mobile. I'll tell you, grabbing 1K rounds of 5.56 is a lot easier to manage than 1K rounds of .308 or 7.62X39. I'm no apocalypse nut, but I do believe in being prepared.

 

[MTMilitiaman]

I'll second the Scout or an 18" Para FAL.

 

[Z-Michigan]

In .308 my favorite by far is an 18" FAL, followed by a 21" FAL.

My second choice, and still a great rifle, is the M1A. I own a 22" loaded model, but I would recommend the 18" Scout Squad model as better all-around. I wouldn't get the 16" SOCOM, too many compromises with that length.

All the .308 western "battle rifles" are decent.

In terms of defensive use, a quality AR-15 and training is going to beat a .308 by quite a bit, for various reasons including weight, size, recoil, ammunition capacity, and general handiness. The 18" FAL is a great carbine as well, but significantly heavier and compared to a .223 higher recoiling.

 

[SaxonPig]

Any of the rifles mentioned will do fine. Handle them all and pick the one that fits you best.

The M1A is a beautiful rifle and owners swear by them. I have never owned one but I shot one once and it was very nice. A little heavy, it seemed.

I do have an HK91 and a Belgian FAL. I like them both but would choose the FAL if limited to only one. I think I prefer plastic to wood for a serious knock-around rifle.

 

[kmcintosh78]

I have known 2 people with the SOCOM II, and and some issues with it but were able to work out the kinks and get them to function correctly.
If you have money to burn, why not have an M1 built. Smith Enterprises in AZ makes a great rifle. I have heard good things from LRB as well.
I own a Springfield Standard 22" and love it, so please don't think that I have something against SAI. If I had the money, I would have one built.

 

[MTMilitiaman]

Yes, the Scout's barrel is 2 inches longer than the SOCOM's. No, this isn't necessarily a bad thing.

The Scout is pretty much identical to the full length rifle, with a four inch shorter barrel. It uses the same gas system, and in fact I think the only part you have to change is a different height front sight. So you get a handier rifle with the same proven reliability and durability as the full size rifle. The SOCOM's 16 inch barrel necessitates the gas port be moved and the gas system shortened. As with pretty much every rifle design, this can lead to complications. At the very least, it means replacement parts, and well as available expertise to deal with problems, is more limited.

I have an M1A Loaded. It has the stainless 22 inch medium contour match barrel. Sure, the rifle is heavy. You know right away you're not dealing with a poodle shooter as soon as you pick it up. That is part of the appeal to me--it feels like a "real" rifle. What is dislike more than the weight though is the length. If I had it to do over again, I would get the Scout with Springfield's full length Cluster Rail System, and drop it into a VLTOR stock system. Yes, the cluster rail adds weight. All rail systems add weight to the rifle's they are put on. They are still overwhelmingly popular now days because the convenience is worth a few ounces. In this case, it is exceptionally so as it offers one of the only full length 12 o' clock rails available on that platform, and single-handedly makes the M1A as easy to scope as an AR. Take the bottom rail off to shave an ounce or two unless you want a bipod on it. Put an SEI gas block and front sight, and a Vortex on it. This will take another inch or two off the OAL and provide you with a more effective flash suppressor as well. Get a good sling for it, at least a dozen 20 round mags, a buttload of ammo, and have fun picking the optics you want. I would go with something like an ACOG or a 1.5-5.5x20 Leupold Mk IV MR/T.

This rifle is as you request, capable of handling pretty much anything you could expect from a rifle. It may require a limited capacity magazine, but the rifle certainly has the power and accuracy to hunt with. If you're out of shape, it might be time to get in shape if you plan on hiking around with it, otherwise, you might be better off perching in a blind. Load it with some 155 gr Hornady TAP and put a good white light on it, and woe is anyone who comes into your house uninvited. While maybe not as accurate as the bedded match guns or some of chassis systems out there, it should be accurate enough for at least informal competition--probably more accurate than you are with a good deal of practice. Some 175 gr OTM sounds about right for that. Or even just some more 155 gr TAP. That stuff is supposed to be pretty accurate too. And with enough FMJ ball on hand, you can fight your way through just about any apocalypse.

Or alternatively, you could give DSA a call and have them hook you up with a nice 18 inch Para FAL with your choice of options for probably about the same price. Either are fine rifles capable of filling pretty much any role you care to configure them for.