Another Isolated Incident...*Because* He Was a (Legal) Gun Owner

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It's been determined time and again that the tactics, techniques and procedures used are safer for everyone involved.
I'm not disagreeing that they're safer under some circumstances. I'm arguing that they're being used in more cases than necessary.
Quite simply, if those tactics, techniques and procedures were not the best accepted practices, they wouldn't be used.
There was a time when bleeding a patient out was accepted as a best practice for dealing with disease. Just because it's accepted doesn't mean it's correct, nor does it mean that every case in which the practice is used corresponds to the circumstances for which the practice was developed.
 
Jeff: "It's because the liability for not resolving those same situations in the best possible manner is greater. Quite simply, if those tactics, techniques and procedures were not the best accepted practices, they wouldn't be used."

Correction: if those tactics, etc. were not BELIEVED the best accepted practices, they wouldn't be used.

What sort of liability accrues for failure to apprehend a criminal in the most expeditious manner? None I'm aware of. They've been looking for Dan "D.B." Cooper for almost forty years.
 
where it was ultimately revealed that judges were literally rubber-stamping warrants.

where was that revealed exactly? i missed it. whose blog was it?
 
Upon further review, I was mistaken about the physical rubber stamp; it turns out to be an electronic signature.

Mea culpa.
 
That quote made reference to the situation in Atlanta a couple of years ago after the police killed a woman in her eighties as a result of a botched no knock raid. Trying to remember I think she did manage to hit one of them. I need to not post anything else Mama told me "If you don't have anything good to say......"
 
Trying to remember I think she did manage to hit one of them.
That was the original story, but investigation ultimately revealed that they hit each other.

Of course, if the judge had reviewed the evidence and denied the warrant--or at least required the officers to make it a nonviolent search--we probably wouldn't be having this discussion.

Which was kinda my point, now that I think about it.
 
That was the original story, but investigation ultimately revealed that they hit each other.
My faith in the training of those performing the no-knock raids is certainly bolstered by that statement. ;)
 
You make the mistake of believing that negligence and criminal misconduct by the police and the courts is commonplace. I prescribe a daily regimen of reality, should clear up all of your misconceptions. The time there are screw up make the news exactly because they are screw ups

Here's the problem as I see it. After said screwup, the criminal actors are let completely off the hook and the victims are put on trial. This isn't just the case with police misconduct either. How often do you hear of a self defense shooting, and then the goon's mom is all over TV "My son was a good boy!" and everything 'bad' about the shooter is drug out before the media 'he had an arsenal!'

Yes, in every profession there are a few bad apples. It just so happens than in the LEO profession these bad apples rarely get removed from the barrel and placed in jail.

If I had my druthers, evidence gathered without a warrant would be admissiable in court, but the person who gathered the evidence would be serving jail time right next to the person implicated by that evidence.
 
I'm not disagreeing that they're safer under some circumstances. I'm arguing that they're being used in more cases than necessary.

Have you seen affidavit for the warrant? Have you seen an affidavit for any warrant? What information did the police have when they decided to conduct this raid? Does Mike Hasenei have a criminal history? If so, what is it? What about his stepson? Have they had any previous interaction with Hasenei? If so, what was the interaction? When you can answer these questions, then we can discuss if the use of the tactical team was warranted or not. Until then we simply don't have enough information to make a decision. That is the case with every one of these threads. Everyone jumps to conclusions based on their preconceived notions of what's right. Here at THR the prevailing attitude is that everyone who is unfortunate enough to get caught up in something like this is just and ordinary, average guy who some dirtbag informant pulled at random from the white pages of the local phone book and sold out to the police in order to get consideration for charges the informant is facing. That's just not the case. Yes there have been cases of out and out criminal misconduct like what happened in Atlanta, but guess what, the officers involved are facing criminal charges for their illegal actions. Funny how that works.....

It would be necessary to study all the circumstances for every use of a tactical team for say 10 years before you could come up with any real proof that the tactics were being used more then necessary.

Correction: if those tactics, etc. were not BELIEVED the best accepted practices, they wouldn't be used.

What sort of liability accrues for failure to apprehend a criminal in the most expeditious manner? None I'm aware of. They've been looking for Dan "D.B." Cooper for almost forty years.

No liability accrues except the liability of the public losing confidence in the police. What kind of liability do you think would accrue if if there was a shooting involving the stolen police weapon?

Correction: if those tactics, etc. were not BELIEVED the best accepted practices, they wouldn't be used.

Everyone here thinks that Hasenei is innocent, yet the information in the article doesn't clear him. It merely says that nothing the police was looking for was found in the house. It doesn't mean that Hasenei and his stepson aren't involved. It also doesn't mean they won't be arrested later on the same charges. Don't forget the investigation is ongoing.

Flyboy,
When you are ready to undertake a complete, unbiased study of the issue, I will be glad to help.
 
i am indeed impressed with the depth of background knowledge some here must have to be able to issue such solid pronouncements vis a vis how warrants are issued and on what evidence they are issued. i would greatly desire to have that same factual basis for myself so i wonder if they could tell me where they learn what they know? a particular blog? i already read the oracle radley so i know i'm 1/2 way home. where is it that i must go so i can see how poorly supported these warrants are. i mean with 3 raids a day in every state, (assuming that 40000 stat was for one year or was it over several) i think some solid examples of the bad info should be available. i read how the cop in atlanta lied to get em and was prosecuted so THAT doesn't work real good as support for the judges rubberstamp. surely there is another.
 
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Everyone here thinks that Hasenei is innocent, yet the information in the article doesn't clear him. It merely says that nothing the police was looking for was found in the house. It doesn't mean that Hasenei and his stepson aren't involved. It also doesn't mean they won't be arrested later on the same charges. Don't forget the investigation is ongoing.
Assuming innocent until guilt is proven...shame on us :)
 
exactly.


Everyone here thinks that Hasenei is innocent, because the information in the article doesn't incriminate him.


also, "Known to be armed" usually implies that the suspect is armed, and hostile/aggressive. its not a literal definition, at least not the way i understand it as applies to such LE warnings. im not sure what just owning firearms/CHL would give you, but i do not think you ould be considered known to be armed unless it was involving a kidnapping, robbery or such and you were for sure a probably suspect
 
Everyone here thinks that Hasenei is innocent, because the information in the article doesn't incriminate him.

The article also doesn't say that there was any police misconduct, that the information provided in the affidavit was falsified or insufficient to justify the warrant or that it was even a no knock warrant but it's real easy for the "unbiased" membership to male those assumptions.....:uhoh:

Which is exactly the reason that these threads are not worth the bandwidth it takes to post them and why they are usually closed forthwith. The simply is not enough information in a news article to have an intelligent discussion of the incident.
 
Jeff: "The simply is not enough information in a news article to have an intelligent discussion of the incident."

I can agree with you there. The article contains just enough information for me to figure out that the reporting is pretty bad, as it usually is, these days. A lot of the misconceptions held in the case here stem from that poor reporting, in my view. I'd bet dollars to doughnuts the kid was involved in the rifle theft, and the Dad may or may not have been. I still think these SWAT raids should be reserved for highly extraordinary situations. The Founding Fathers would not like them very much.
 
The NO KNOCK concept was originally designed to prevent drug dealers from flushing evidence down the toilet.

Now, the rationalization is it is to protect the LEO's. Yup, it is a rationalization.

How many LEO's have been killed or injured doing warrant service without a Tac squad. How many LEO's have been killed serving doing warrant service with a Tac Squad.

I will wait for the numbers. My bet is the numbers will NOT JUSTIFY the means.

But, what ever we do, let us argue with facts, not opinions. LEO's particularly had better have some numbers. Just because don't cut it.

This is America, if the only way a warrant can be served is with a Tac Squad, we have a different problem, and it is on the Government side, not the peoples. Also as long as there are no personal consequences For Law enforcement when they make a bad raid, they will continue. Just like with criminals, criminal actions require consequences, for exactly the same reasons.

Will it make the LEO's job harder, yup. Will it get more LEO's hurt or killed, I don't think so. Don't like the job, don't do it. There is no such thing as the perfect job.

For all you LEO's out there, thank you, and stay safe.

Good luck.

Fred
 
It's been determined time and again that the tactics, techniques and procedures used are safer for everyone involved.

No, it's safer for the police. You have said it time and time again: the desired effect of the tactics employed is to decrease the chance of injury to the raid team. It is unfortunate that when that when there is an error, that the "good guy" is at the same risk as the "bad guy" would have been. One could even argue that the victim of one of these "errors" is at a greater risk, as he would have no reason to suspect a police raid, and thus be more inclined to believe it was the "bad guys" breaking in and take some type of defensive measures. If that includes opening fire, surely the overwhelming force meant to intimidate and surprise the "bad guy" would inflict more damage to a sleep-dazed civillian with a pistol than vice-versa.

Use of force continuum's changed almost overnight after the Rodney King incident. Why have none of the botched tactical operations not caused the same sea change? It's not because millions in settlement money hasn't been paid out and there is no court precedent for it. It's because the liability for not resolving those same situations in the best possible manner is greater. Quite simply, if those tactics, techniques and procedures were not the best accepted practices, they wouldn't be used.

I disagree. It changed because the popular media was able to show it to millions of individuals across the country that saw it as evidence of police abuse, misconduct, and corruption/cover up, some of it founded and some of it not, and expressed outrage to their political representatives. Unfortunately the fact that Mr. King would not comply, or that his subsequent arrest was for driving a vehicle while under the influence of PCP, was often minimized or ignored completely. Mr. King's settlement of around 3.8 million dollars probably had little to do with the change. Especially when you consider that back in 2000, the estimated civil awards related to the alleged LAPD's Rampart scandal was from 125 million to 1 billion, and recent settlements relating to the May Day protests were 32+ million. Let one of these botched raids make it to television, ala Rodney King or some reality program, and I bet it would dominate the popular media and have a similar effect on the public perception of police procedures.

What liability is there in not arresting criminals? Is it similar to the legal liabilities a depatment incurs when it doesn't protect an individual? I have read about several civil suits against various agencies, but none for failing to arrest a criminal or damages that arose from such a failure. Could you cite some references? I'd like to know the circumstances of those.

I am not thrilled that these types of raids (knock and announce or no-knock) are being used with the frequency they are, but I recognize the need for them. I personally think the process, especially the justifications for using them, could be better. Look at the efforts in the medical field to reduce errors and similar efforts in the airline industry. They too involve human endeavours, and had relatively low "error" rates. But, because they involved the possibility of saving human lives, especially innocent ones, attempts to improve the relatively low error rates have broad appeal. So should it be with these raids. Just as cop bashing serves no useful purpose, neither does denying there is room for improvement. Ironically, those that fought the hardest against the efforts to make the changes in the medical and aviation industries, were those in it.
 
The NO KNOCK concept was originally designed to prevent drug dealers from flushing evidence down the toilet.

Do you know for a fact that the incident we are discussing was no-knock warrant? Do you have any statistics on how many no knock warrants are served compared to knock and announce? Do you know the difference between a no knock warrant and knock and announce?

Now, the rationalization is it is to protect the LEO's. Yup, it is a rationalization.

How many warrants have you or anyone in this thread served? How many search warrants have you applied for? What is the basis for your opinion that it's a rationalization? Gut feeling? Just doesn't feel right to you? :rolleyes:

But, what ever we do, let us argue with facts, not opinions. LEO's particularly had better have some numbers. Just because don't cut it.

Just because don't cut it on either side. If you are going to make accusations you better be able to back them up.

This is America, if the only way a warrant can be served is with a Tac Squad, we have a different problem, and it is on the Government side, not the peoples.

Most warrants are served by a couple of uniformed officers and a detective or two. Using a tactical unit to serve every search warrant is not done anywhere in America.

Also as long as there are no personal consequences For Law enforcement when they make a bad raid, they will continue. Just like with criminals, criminal actions require consequences, for exactly the same reasons.

Where in the article on this incident did you see anything suggesting that there was criminal actions conducted by the police? You are illustrating another reason why these threads don't live long here at THR. People with no concern about the actual facts of an incident under discussion throwing out totally unrelated allegations of criminal misconduct. Emotion over reason. We scream at the antis when they use that argument in an attempt to disarm us, but we are perfectly capable of using it ourselves when we are unable to come up with a rational argument of our own.....
 
Jeff is right that we can not assume that the article gives the full picture or all of the information. We all gripe and complain about media bias towards guns, we all know that the media puts it's spin on all things political..... so why be so quick to trust that they have given us all the info., or even just accurate/unbiased info in this case? Yes, some LEO's, lawyers, and other government officials abuse their power in a way that is deplorable and inexcusable..... but by and large these men and women are not out to get us....... until proven to have acted improperly, the LEO's should be given the benefit of the doubt (just as much as the gun owner)..... we do not know what information the police were operating on, and without that information, none of us are qualified to even speculate whether or not there was wrongdoing on the part of the law.
 
I know a few things
I don't want my door kicked in, have guns pointed at me or my family and my dog killed.
I think with some reasonable police work it could be determined that I would likely be armed.
I believe that violent warrants are not the norm (today)
I believe in the near future that could change
I don't behave or do things that would make me a enemy of society (yet)
The rules will not be changed by me

The thought of scuzzy drug dealers and crooks having these search and arrests done to them don't worry some, over the years having heard various reports I'm starting to feel there is to much power granted with the warrants and their execution.
I'm not comfortable with how these could be used in the future and maybe already are in some places.
 
The thought of scuzzy drug dealers and crooks having these search and arrests done to them don't worry some, over the years having heard various reports I'm starting to feel there is to much power granted with the warrants and their execution.


I'm going to post a few stories from the good old days of law enforcement that many of you long to return to:

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/ne...2A10217B0E19D21A862575100011C60B?OpenDocument
Desperate robbers and a sure shot
Southwest Bank Robbery
By Tim O'Neil
ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH
11/30/2008


Editor's note
This is an excerpt from the new Post-Dispatch book, “Mobs, Mayhem & Murder: Tales from the St. Louis Police Beat” by veteran
reporter Tim O’Neil.

On the morning of April 24, 1953, a man who claimed to be an insurance adjuster walked into an auto body shop north of Granite City and looked over a banged-up car.

Shop employees would notice later that the car's license plates had been swiped.

The petty theft was the beginning of a busy morning of big-time crime.

Shortly before 10 a.m., four men gathered in Tower Grove Park in south St. Louis. They went over their plans, phony names, weaponry and getaway cars — one of which bore the stolen plates.

Just north on Kingshighway, tellers at Southwest Bank were prepared for a different kind of busy day. It was Friday — payday — and they had more than $200,000 ready for cashing checks. Bank tellers Alice Ruzicka and Betty Valenti were at their stations. Eva Hamilton, a secretary at a cosmetics company, stood in line to get a cashier's check for her boss. Outside the front door at Southwest Avenue and Kingshighway, Myrtle Howard of the Salvation Army sought donations.

In a room just off the lobby, telephone repairman Joseph Bauer was at work. Four short blocks away, at Shaw Boulevard and Kingshighway, police Officer Melburn Stein and Cpl. Robert Heitz were in a patrol car.

Back at Tower Grove Park, Fred W. Bowerman, 60, ran the meeting. He was a veteran robber, recently promoted to the FBI's Ten Most Wanted List for a bank holdup in South Bend, Ind. With him was Frank B. Vito, 25, a former convict free on bond from charges in a liquor-store robbery. Also there was Glenn Chernick, 22, a former Marquette University football quarterback who had been expelled and was awaiting trial for theft of wholesale cigarettes. The fourth man was William Scholl, 28, the only one of the bunch with a clean record. He had been attracted from his bartender job by Bowerman's promise to "make $5,000 in five minutes."

Three were from Chicago. Bowerman, of Niles, Mich., often plied his trade in Chicago. They had been in St. Louis less than two weeks, casing the bank. Bowerman, the boss, told them it would be easy and quick.

He led the way in with a sawed-off shotgun. He jumped onto a counter and shouted, "This is a holdup! Everybody stand still!" The robbers wore handkerchief masks.

The next 14 bloody, harrowing minutes would go down as the city's most infamous bank robbery. Foiling it would become a matter of great pride for the St. Louis Police Department. Two of the robbers would pay with their lives. Later, it would inspire a movie, shot on location and starring a rising young actor named Steve McQueen.

Bowerman ordered the employees onto the floor as Vito and Scholl stuffed cash into a zipper bag. Valenti and Ruzicka, the tellers, deftly tripped silent alarms under their counters at 10:19 a.m. that lit up the board at an alarm company downtown. Bauer, the telephone repairman, called directly to police headquarters: "I'm in a rear room at Southwest Bank. I can see a holdup going on."

Howard, the Salvation Army worker, had seen one of the robbers holding a gun as they entered the bank. She warned arriving customers to stay away.

Stein and Heitz heard the radio broadcast of a robbery in progress and raced to the bank. Stein ran to the front door, Heitz to a side entrance. Looking through a window, Stein saw the robber with the sawed-off shotgun fire toward Heitz. Stein blasted through the window at the robber.

Hearing gunfire, bank directors, who had been meeting in a back room, dove onto the floor. Downstairs, 15 terrified employees ran to a back room. Chernick, waiting in the stolen green Oldsmobile, took off southbound on Kingshighway.

Inside the bank, Heitz exchanged shots with the robbers. Bowerman, moving from behind a counter, fired at Heitz, striking him with shotgun pellets in his neck and one ear.

Additional officers arrived, some firing tear-gas canisters through more windows. Others stormed into the bank and fired at the robbers. Scholl, hit once in the back, had gone down behind the counter. "Grab a woman," Bowerman shouted to his accomplices. He yanked Hamilton, the customer, up from the floor and shoved her toward the front door, jamming the shotgun barrel into her back. Just outside, Stein was crouched behind a sheet-metal newspaper box.

"Don't shoot, or I'll kill her," Bowerman said as he pushed Hamilton out the door. Stein, a former Marine, saw his chance. He fired into Bowerman's side at a range of 3 feet. Hamilton fell free onto the glass-littered sidewalk, breaking both wrists. As Bowerman struggled to pull a .38-caliber revolver from his belt, Stein jumped on him.

Inside, Vito told Scholl the game was up. "We'll get 99 years. I can't take a pinch," Vito said as he put a pistol to his head and killed himself. Nearby on the floor was $140,769 in the zipper bag.

Scholl grabbed a customer but let her go. Crouching in a teller's cage, he told police Cpl. Elmer Hildebrandt, "I give up. I'm shot." It was 10:33 a.m., 14 minutes after the tellers hit the alarms.

Cpl. James Broderick, one of the 100 officers who arrived at the bank, saw a woman hiding in her car outside. She gave Broderick a piece of paper on which she had written the license plate of the getaway car. She said it almost hit her speeding away.

Bank employees and customers, many of them coughing from the tear gas, stumbled out of the building. More than 40 shots had been fired, but only two bystanders inside the bank went to the hospital, and only for treatment of jittery nerves.

Police found the green Oldsmobile, bearing the stolen license plates, six blocks away, on a parking lot. They found another stolen Oldsmobile later, near Lemp and Shenandoah avenues. Witnesses said a man walked away from it carrying a sack of clothing.

Ambulances took Bowerman, Scholl and Cpl. Heitz to City Hospital.

Bowerman, paralyzed by a shot through his spine, refused to talk. Mayor Raymond Tucker visited Heitz and lavished praise for his "outstanding piece of police work."

If the veteran hood Bowerman wouldn't talk, the tenderfoot Scholl sang from his guarded hospital bed. He told investigators how Bowerman recruited them, when they drove to St. Louis and where they took separate small apartments, which police quickly raided. And he told them that the mystery getaway driver, known only as George, was Chernick. Police found Chernick asleep at his father's house just southwest of downtown Chicago.

Bowerman died in the hospital on May 2. Heitz recovered and was promoted to sergeant. Stein became a corporal.

Scholl, who took the witness stand in St. Louis Circuit Court the following December, testified that he had let his hostage go because "she began to cry and asked me to think about her children. I told her I had children of my own and would not harm her." Unimpressed by Scholl's kindhearted side, the jury recommended 25 years. Scholl wept in the courtroom. In two trials in 1954, Chernick also drew 25 years.

Filmmaker Charles E. Guggenheim, then of St. Louis and better known for his later documentary on the building of the Gateway Arch, revisited the crime with the movie, "The Great St. Louis Bank Robbery," that hit the screens in 1959. McQueen, an aspiring young actor from New York, played the getaway-car driver. Stein played himself in a speaking role.

Heitz died in 1993. Stein retired from the force in 1973 and, for a while, worked for Brinks Inc. In April 2008, officers held an informal reception to honor Stein, then 94, for his heroism 55 years before.

[email protected] | 314-340-8132

http://www.fbi.gov/libref/historic/famcases/clyde/clyde.htm
FBI History
Famous Cases
Bonnie and Clyde

Clyde Champion Barrow and his companion, Bonnie Parker, were shot to death by officers in an ambush near Sailes, Bienville Parish, Louisiana, on May 23, 1934, after one of the most colorful and spectacular manhunts the Nation had seen up to that time.

Barrow was suspected of numerous killings and was wanted for murder, robbery, and state charges of kidnaping.


The Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), then called the Bureau of Investigation, became interested in Barrow and his paramour late in December, 1932, through a singular bit of evidence. A Ford automobile, which had been stolen in Pawhuska, Oklahoma, was found abandoned near Jackson, Michigan in September of that year. At Pawhuska, it was learned another Ford car had been abandoned there which had been stolen in Illinois. A search of this car revealed it had been occupied by a man and a woman, indicated by abandoned articles therein. In this car was found a prescription bottle, which led Special Agents to a drug store in Nacogdoches, Texas, where investigation disclosed the woman for whom the prescription had been filled was Clyde Barrow's aunt.

Further investigation revealed that the woman who obtained the prescription had been visited recently by Clyde Barrow, Bonnie Parker, and Clyde's brother, L. C. Barrow. It also was learned that these three were driving a Ford car, identified as the one stolen in Illinois. It was further shown that L. C. Barrow had secured the empty prescription bottle from a son of the woman who had originally obtained it.

On May 20, 1933, the United States Commissioner at Dallas, Texas, issued a warrant against Clyde Barrow and Bonnie Parker, charging them with the interstate transportation, from Dallas to Oklahoma, of the automobile stolen in Illinois. The FBI then started its hunt for this elusive pair.

Background

Bonnie and ClydeBonnie and Clyde met in Texas in January, 1930. At the time, Bonnie was 19 and married to an imprisoned murderer; Clyde was 21 and unmarried. Soon after, he was arrested for a burglary and sent to jail. He escaped, using a gun Bonnie had smuggled to him, was recaptured, and was sent back to prison. Clyde was paroled in February, 1932, rejoined Bonnie, and resumed a life of crime.

In addition to the automobile theft charge, Bonnie and Clyde were suspects in other crimes. At the time they were killed in 1934, they were believed to have committed 13 murders and several robberies and burglaries. Barrow, for example, was suspected of murdering two police officers at Joplin, Missouri, and kidnaping a man and a woman in rural Louisiana. He released them near Waldo, Texas. Numerous sightings followed, linking this pair with bank robberies and automobile thefts. Clyde allegedly murdered a man at Hillsboro, Texas; committed robberies at Lufkin and Dallas, Texas; murdered one sheriff and wounded another at Stringtown, Oklahoma; kidnaped a deputy at Carlsbad, New Mexico; stole an automobile at Victoria, Texas; attempted to murder a deputy at Wharton, Texas; committed murder and robbery at Abilene and Sherman, Texas; committed murder at Dallas, Texas; abducted a sheriff and the chief of police at Wellington, Texas; and committed murder at Joplin and Columbia, Missouri.

The Crime Spree Begins

Later in 1932, Bonnie and Clyde began traveling with Raymond Hamilton, a young gunman. Hamilton left them several months later, and was replaced by William Daniel Jones in November, 1932.

Ivan M. "Buck" Barrow, brother of Clyde, was released from the Texas State Prison on March 23, 1933, having been granted a full pardon by the Governor. He quickly joined Clyde, bringing his wife, Blanche, so the group now numbered five persons. This gang embarked upon a series of bold robberies which made headlines across the country. They escaped capture in various encounters with the law. However, their activities made law enforcement efforts to apprehend them even more intense. During a shootout with police in Iowa on July 29, 1933, Buck Barrow was fatally wounded and Blanche was captured. Jones, who was frequently mistaken for "Pretty Boy" Floyd, was captured in November, 1933, at Houston, Texas, by the sheriff's office. Bonnie and Clyde went on together.
Bonnie and Clyde's identification order
Bonnie and Clyde's identification order

On November 22, 1933, a trap was set by the Dallas, Texas, sheriff and his deputies in an attempt to capture Bonnie and Clyde near Grand Prairie, Texas, but the couple escaped the officer's gunfire. They held up an attorney on the highway and took his car, which they abandoned at Miami, Oklahoma. On December 21, 1933, Bonnie and Clyde held up and robbed a citizen at Shreveport, Louisiana.

On January 16, 1934, five prisoners, including the notorious Raymond Hamilton (who was serving sentences totaling more than 200 years), were liberated from the Eastham State Prison Farm at Waldo, Texas, by Clyde Barrow, accompanied by Bonnie Parker. Two guards were shot by the escaping prisoners with automatic pistols, which had been previously concealed in a ditch by Barrow. As the prisoners ran, Barrow covered their retreat with bursts of machine-gun fire. Among the escapees was Henry Methvin of Louisiana.

The Last Months

On April 1, 1934, Bonnie and Clyde encountered two young highway patrolmen near Grapevine, Texas. Before the officers could draw their guns, they were shot. On April 6, 1934, a constable at Miami, Oklahoma, fell mortally wounded by Bonnie and Clyde, who also abducted a police chief, whom they wounded.

The FBI had jurisdiction solely on the charge of transporting a stolen automobile, although the activities of the Bureau Agents were vigorous and ceaseless. Every clue was followed. "Wanted notices" furnishing fingerprints, photograph, description, criminal record, and other data were distributed to all officers. The Agents followed the trail through many states and into various haunts of the Barrow gang, particularly Louisiana. The association with Henry Methvin and the Methvin family of Louisiana was discovered by FBI Agents and they found that Bonnie and Clyde had been driving a car stolen in New Orleans.

On April 13, 1934, an FBI Agent, through investigation in the vicinity of Ruston, Louisiana, obtained information which definitely placed Bonnie and Clyde in a remote section southwest of that community. The home of the Methvins was not far away and the Agent learned of visits there by Bonnie and Clyde. Special Agents in Texas had learned that Clyde and his companion had been traveling from Texas to Louisiana, sometimes accompanied by Henry Methvin.

The FBI and local law enforcement authorities in Louisiana and Texas concentrated on apprehending Bonnie and Clyde, whom they strongly believed to be in the area. It was learned that Bonnie and Clyde, with some of the Methvins, had staged a party at Black Lake, Louisiana, on the night of May 21, 1934, and were due to return to the area two days later.

Before dawn on May 23, 1934, a posse composed of police officers from Louisiana and Texas, including Texas Ranger Frank Hamer, concealed themselves in bushes along the highway near Sailes, Louisiana. In the early daylight, Bonnie and Clyde appeared in an automobile and when they attempted to drive away, the officers opened fire. Bonnie and Clyde were killed instantly

Of course in those days only lip service was paid to legal niceties like search warrants, confessions were often beaten out of suspects, "street justice" was common where undesirables were given a severe beating, loaded in the back of a car and driven into another jurisdiction and dumped.

Everyone, the public, the criminal and the police is safer today then they were when things were done the old way. Going in shooting and ambushing criminals was the way things were done.

Still think today's officers have more power then their forefathers? Things have gotten better in terms of constitutional rights being violated...not worse.
 
On the other hand, those old time cops sometimes got their man by luring him to a location outside of the "hideout.":

http://bangorinfo.com/Focus/focus_brady_gang.html

http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2007/10/06/bangor_recalls_brady_gang/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Brady

The true story of what happened to the Brady Gang in Bangor Maine on Columbus Day, 1937 is never really told in the mainstream press. I learned the whole story while buying some trench art at a coin and militaria shop around the corner from the Courthouse in Bangor after settling a criminal case there a couple years ago. The old timers still talk about it, and it was re-enacted a couple years back.

Then there was what happened to John Dillinger outside the Biograph in my old stomping grounds.

Apprehension or ... elimination ... in public by ambush has a rich history.
 
Thanks, Jeff. I've read that, too. The saga of the Indiana Trooper's .38 taken off Brady and its subsequent travels is an interesting one, as are several other aspects of the case. Quite an arsenal they had accumulated.
 
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