Another scenario

[DDGator]

The other scenario in this thread got me thinking about another situation I have pondered...

You are robbed at gunpoint. The attacker demands your wallet or he will shoot. As you reach back, you clearly have the option of pulling your wallet or your (.38 or larger) legally concealed and carried weapon that is IWB at 5:00.

Legally, assuming these facts, you have a right to use deadly force. Anyone in the situation would fear for their life.

My question is -- tactically -- what do you do? What factors do you take into consideration? Manerisms of the perp? His gun v. your gun? Other perps? Other victims likely to get hurt?

Statistically -- are you still likely to get shot if you comply and hand over the wallet?

I have already decided that I am never becoming a willing hostage because I fear the odds are against a happy ending. But what about the quick robbery on the street?


DDGator
TFL Alumnus

 

[Wakal]

A lot of variables...distance, weapon's condition, body language of the would-be robber, location, number/location/body language of anyone else in the area...

However, as a general rule, fighting back gives you a chance at winning. Not fighting gives you zero chance at winning.




Alex

 

[Still Learning]

Oddly, this thread instantly reminded me of a Supreme Court Justice's opinion on the definition of pornography--stay with me. He said, "I can't define it. But I know it when I see it."

That's my answer to your question. I would have to actually be there to evaluate everything before i could respond. If handing the perp a few bucks would prevent a shooting, then yes, I would hand it over. If my instinct told me it would not, then I would aggressively respond with lethal force.

I hope my habit of walking around in Condition Yellow prevents this from happening.

 

[SteelyDan]

I agree, you gotta be there. It would depend on my perception of the robber. If they were calm and rational, they'd get the money. If they made me believe they'd shoot no matter what I did, they'd get the other pocket. In between, you gotta be there. It ain't worth shooting someone, or getting shot, over a wallet. But if there's gonna be a shooting, it's pretty easy to decide which side you want to be on.

 

[Jim March]

If you've studied a martial art that focuses on sidestepping an incoming threat while reacting with your hands/weight, you're at an advantage if you try to control his weapon barehanded.

This "sidestepping counter-attack" is only found at it's fullest extent in systems that still teach blade arts. It's only a remnant in the rest, to varying degrees.

 

[che4rev]

In addition to thinking about one's own saftey, shouldn't he consider the wellbeing of society. What are the consequences of not shoting this person?


If you do not shoot...
-will he continue to comit violent crimes?
-could his violent activities escalate to include more brutal crimes?
-will he use his stolen money to fund his education so he can go on to cure cancer, or is he going to buy drugs?

Nobody can see in to this hypothetical criminal's future, but one can be realistic about this person's contributions to tomorrow's society.

 

[pax]

Everyone pretty well answered, "It depends."

So what does it depend upon? My list, so far:

• The body language of the BG.
• Presence of accomplices.
• Presence of a loved one.
• Type of weapon being used by the BG.
• Distance between you & the BG.

More factors?

pax

It rankles me when somebody tries to force somebody to do something. – John Wayne

 

[Viking6]

All responses so far seem to track. I would worry most if I was with wife and/or children and figure out a way to cause them least harm. If I'm by myself, then I would have to consider taking him on for the following reasons: I'm over 200 lbs(by a little), over 6ft (barely), over fifty (by a couple of years) and I have what my kids call a mean look on my face (that look is actually the look of worry about getting them all grown and educated)and that's not the most common victim profile. So that's an indicator that said perpetrator ain't to rational. I ain't no bad a$$ and would definitely run if afforded the chance but this scenario may not allow for that.

 

[PATH]

This is a tough call! I guess you'd have to take into account the situation you find yourself in. As every situation is different you'd have to make this decison at the time. I might go for it. Then again.........

 

[-B-a-M-]

This is why i took some classes on Krav Maga (i think thats the spelling ive seen it different in different books and places). Basically its a pretty cheap way of fighting but its the most effective form of self defense i think. Me and my friends were playing with some Airsoft guns and one of them managed to sneak up on me and put his handgun to the back of my head. I had a rifle and was in a confined area and couldn't risk a fall, turn, fire so i set down my rifle but still had my sidearm in a tactical thigh holster. I was thinking the whole time i was kneeling down to set my rifle down if on the way back up i should grab it :banghead: instead i decided against it cuz i wasnt sure what his position was because he was behind me but i could feel the gun in the back of my head so i knew where his arm was. I put my hands up in a submissive scared way and as i put them up i grabed the barrel and pulled it forward over my shoulder slamming his body into my back and im still kneeling so he flips over me i still hav ehold of the gun and i twist his arm around stick the gun in his chest and squeeze his finger firing it into his chest. I couldnt stop laughing afterwards cuz he had the biggest look of surprise on his face i had ever seen. So from now on whenever we play BB gun fights, paintball, or airsoft if i get captured and hes playing against me he just executes me to avoid the trouble because im not a cooperative hostage. Hey i have knee problems and they give every now and then I know this isnt a real firearm situation but it proved to me i would actually get to use what i learned every now and then. Sorry for my rambling im going to stop.......now.

 

[sonoranjack]

I would have looked the BG right in the eye & maintained eye contact w/ him. I would have smiled as I pulled the trigger. Remember if the BG is looking at your eyes he's not looking at your hands. Also talking to him in a calm voice re-assuring him your going to comply might help. Another tactic might be to move, draw & fire. If the BG if facing you w/ his gun pointed at your COM & you move. BG shoots. Since you've moved he might not hit you in a vital area since you've moved your COM out of his line of fire. So even if hit w/ fire you could still defend your self. Of course this depends on if your alone or if others are present including strangers passing by.

 

[Keith]

I wonder...

This may sound silly, but if you ever watch magicians you'll learn that 90% of the magic revolves around misdirection. By glancing one way or another, or moving one hand or the other, they draw your eyes away for the critical second when they exchange the card (or whatever).

If you had the presence of mind to do it (or had practiced the maneuver), you might glance over the BG's shoulder for a moment and raise your eyebrows or something like that. Surely, in such a paranoid situation the guy would HAVE to look back to see what drew your attention wouldn't he?

I dunno, is that workable or pie-in-the-sky?

Keith

 

[HS/LD]

Out comes my psitol!

Now I'm movin'
and shootin'

Regards,
HS/LD

 

[sm]

HS/LD...

Yep
shootin' and moving

 

[cz75bdneos22]

i answer before reading the replies. so, just from your scenario..my op is if you pack, then be ready to use it...otherwise, kuagb!! now, lemme go back and read the replies..i might change my mind.

 

[Trisha]

ditto

Misdirect, shoot and move to hard cover if available, and evaluate. CQB rules apply automatically - goblin dies in instant unhesitating all-out no-holds-barred attack. Beyond CQB distances, tactical decisionmaking becomes an option.

Trisha

 

[ErminioB]

I've been robbed two years ago, a knife to my stomach; I gave the bastard all what I had, including a really loved watch, but I still think that if he engages you with a knife or a gun he's ready to use it, so he takes his risk: so, I'm going to shoot.

Bye

Erminio

 

[answerguy]

This situation calls for the 'throw down' wallet. That's an old wallet with a couple a bucks in it along with fake stuff you got in junk mail (nothing that identifies you of course). You toss it on the ground away from the BG, when he goes for it you draw your weapon. What the BG does next determines his fate.

 

[80fl]

Above all else: Practice, Practice some more, and then for the heck of it....do a little Practice!

Using the scenario that you described, with a friend and your unloaded carry piece, practice confrontational episodes.

Obviously during the practice sessions you are prepared and alert; hopefully the condition you would be in in a real life situation, but the occupational conditioning could save your life.