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Appleseed Shoot with and AK?

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by Baron357, Aug 10, 2007.

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  1. Baron357

    Baron357 Member

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    Does or has anyone done Appleseed shoots with an AK style rifle (Arsenal, SAR, WASR, Norinco...)? I always hear how inaccurate they are and the point of Appleseed is 500 yards I believe.

    Is the AK capable of consistent 500 yard shots?
     
  2. erict

    erict Member

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    I have 2 Hungarian AMD 65's and I can get about a 2-3" group @ 50 yards. I don't even try to shoot @ 100 yards because I consider it pointless. I've shot other "AK" style weapons with similar results and I know the quality manufacturers have a longer sight radius but I doubt it will perform even decently @ 500 yards.

    Someone may prove me wrong though???
     
  3. GTSteve03

    GTSteve03 Member

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    I hear you can use a 22LR at Appleseed shoots, so I don't think it would be 500yds? :confused:
     
  4. Baron357

    Baron357 Member

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    This is from www.Appleseedinfo.org

    So it must be like the army where you shoot at 25 meters and the pic on the target keeps getting smaller simulating distance.
     
  5. Ghost Tracker

    Ghost Tracker Member

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    The AK-47s I've shot can barely hit the ocean from the beach! I know, I know...it's the Indian, not the arrow. But really, does anyone pick an AK for accuracy?
     
  6. Mikee Loxxer

    Mikee Loxxer Member

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    I would think trying to shoot past 100 yards using anything other than a bench (prone, sitting, standing, etc) with a Kalashnikov would be frustrating at best.
     
  7. Deer Hunter

    Deer Hunter Member

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    Depends on the AK. There's a huge difference between a Saiga and a WASR.
     
  8. _N4Z_

    _N4Z_ Member

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    I have a Vector AK that I use quite often. It is nasty accurate out to 100 yards, and decent out to 200 yards.

    After that it's only so so.

    I have hit a 19" dia. gong @ 300 yards with this rifle on occasion from a sitting position. No bench.

    Doubt seriously I would hit anything consistantly with this rifle @ 500 yards.
     
  9. funfaler

    funfaler Member

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    Most of the instruction done at the Appleseed Shoots is done at 25 meters, this allows for the shooter/instructors to concentrate on the mechanicals of making the shot. Once the mechanicals are mastered, range/time permitting, we will take the shooting out to 300-500 yards, depending on the range.

    We had a fella shoot Rifleman score with an AK74 in Carrollton, Kentucky this spring, the first time a CommBloc rifle made the grade.

    The Appleseeds are a "bring the rifle you have" type of event. They will teach you how to use YOUR rifle to maximize YOUR performance with it. Many folks have started using 10/22s, usually with Tech-Sights, and some other improvements, for the short range work. The key is for the "shooter" to learn, not to bring a sooped up rifle. It is the shooter, not the rifle that make an accurate shot.

    All rifles welcome

    What shoot are you going to?

    If you have any questions about the program, feel free to PM me, happy to help where I can
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2007
  10. General Geoff

    General Geoff Member

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    Depends on the AK, I'd say. I would imagine Saigas are a bit more accurate than WASRs/AKMs. At an Appleseed shoot, you shouldn't have a problem, as (at least in the short range part of instruction) the targets are at a real range of just 25 yards. If you were to shoot at targets actually out there at 500 yards, I'm not entirely sure of the success (or lack thereof) you'd have.

    Keep in mind that with most rack grade, military style rifles with iron sights and milsurp ball ammo, your gear will still shoot better than you off hand or with a sling. You really need a bench rest or bipod to get down to the point where your gear matters.
     
  11. _N4Z_

    _N4Z_ Member

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    Of course the Kalashnikov 74 (5.45x39) enjoys the reputation for greater accuracy at longer range than it's older brother 47 (7.62x39). I have the 47 version.

    Shooting an AK to 500 consistantly has got to be very satisfying.
     
  12. colonial shooter

    colonial shooter Member

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    I hate to disagree with you General. How many times are you going to have that bench with you when you are say... Hunting? The best you or your equipment can be is when used properly. That is why the Appleseeds are important. They teach the basics. Then you get better with practice.
     
  13. General Geoff

    General Geoff Member

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    I'm not sure I follow your logic... the only time I shoot from a bench rest is if I'm zeroing a sight.

    A bipod, however, I practice with almost as often as off-hand. I just recently picked up a sling, and haven't had a chance to shoot with it yet.

    My point was that the accuracy of the gun is negligable compared to the accuracy of the shooter, unless you're both experienced and have a bench rest or bipod.
     
  14. eldon519

    eldon519 Member

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    I don't think it's accurate reasoning to say the accuracy of the gun is negligible compared to the accuracy of the shooter because they are not separate variables; they are compounding.

    If you had a rifle that shot exactly where aimed (perfect mechanical precision) and you shoot 2" groups at 100 yards, when I give you a rifle that shoots 2" groups out of a mechanical rest (zero human error), you and your rifle will now be shooting 4" groups. It's not a matter of the chain only being as strong as its weakest link. Mechanical variation and human error stack upon each other.
     
  15. funfaler

    funfaler Member

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    The goal of the Appleseed it to hone the SHOOTER thus the equipment is less of an issue. Obviously, if one is shooting off of a bench, it really is more a test of equipment.

    The neat thing about the Appleseed shoots, is that they teach the Shooters in positions that are more practical for field use. They also teach the lost art of using a shooting sling. Once I learned how to use a sling properly, I took the bipods off of my FALs, no need for them any more ;)

    In the case of the AK, if it is not accurate enough for an Appleseed, it either needs to be worked on or 'culled" from the collection. Most rifles, if in decent shape, should be able to shoot better than 4 moa, which is an accuracy that would allow the shooter to put lead in a 1 inch square at 25 meters, and 4 inch square at 100, and 20 inch square at 500 yards.
     
  16. thereisnospoon

    thereisnospoon Member

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    Back to the OP question, I shot my first appleseed with an SKS-M. I had a lot to learn about rifle shooting, but still managed a respectable score by the time the weekend was over.

    Honestly, shooting an AK out beyond 250 is difficult as the sights on most AK are not as fine as they are on an AR or M1 or M1A, etc, but you can still learn technique, regardless of the rifle, using the methods taught at an Appleseed.

    Go, take your Ak and be the second to shoot Rifleman wth it!

    Good Luck!
     
  17. Baron357

    Baron357 Member

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    Thanks for all the input guys,

    funfaler, I hope to go to a shoot soon but first must buy a rifle, I have a 10/22 but the wife will be using that and I would like either an AK or AR. I am just trying to decide how much to spend.
     
  18. funfaler

    funfaler Member

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    Hey Baron357,

    You are in luck, New England has some loaner 10/22s, with Tech-Sights, for shoots up that way.

    PM Nickle for details.

    As far as your rifle, if you can get it prior to the shoot, Appleseeds are a great way to 'shake out' a rifle. If you can not get it prior to the shoot, beg, borrow or......well, find one where you can. Remember, Appleseeds are about teaching the shooter how to do their job, so the rifle can do its job, it is not an equipment race ;)

    Also, Kids under 21 shoot FREE, so take the young rifle shooters as well.
     
  19. thereisnospoon

    thereisnospoon Member

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    Baron 357,

    If you haven't yet bought a rifle, I would beg you to consider holding out and buying the AR. I am a huge fan of the AK rifle, but the AR has better sights and is easier to learn to shoot well. I am sure all the AK fans will jump in and think I am starting a flame (which I am not), but the facts are the facts. The AR has better sights and is more ergonomically correct for a fighting weapon. Also, unless you're going for a real low end AK47, then a really good AK is around $650.-- and a good entry level AR is only $100.00 more.

    Buy an SKS for the Appleseed shoot and put some tech sights on it. This will allow you to maximize your ability, without breaking the bank. Then save for the AR or really good AK, if you want to go Commie.

    If you can only afford one, then make it an AR, even if you have to wait and save.
     
  20. Oleg Volk

    Oleg Volk Moderator Emeritus

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    Optics remove the iron sight variation.
     
  21. _N4Z_

    _N4Z_ Member

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    ???

    Is there a website for Appleseed events?

    I'd love to go to one with my little AK clone. Sounds like alot of fun.
     
  22. Baron357

    Baron357 Member

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  23. _N4Z_

    _N4Z_ Member

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    Interesting. I qualified expert a few times with a M16A1 in the Army 20 some years ago.

    This is then the same type of "class" that the military provides + sling work etc?

    Sounds like a hoot. Thanks for the website Baron.
     
  24. ndolson

    ndolson Member

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    I can get 5-6" groups at 100m with my AMD 65 shooting from a sitting position, no bench. I think that's pretty darn good considering it's a wire folding stock that is nearly impossible to get a cheek weld on.

    I'd say if anything is going to inhibit an AK from being a good long range run (300+ meters) it would have to be the "rainbow" looking trajectory of the 7.62x39 round. I sighted my rifle in at 25m just to get it a "general" zero, and at 75m it was shooting OVER the target.
     
  25. MartinS

    MartinS Member

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    At 25 meters you have to adjust to hit low, about the height of the front sight over the bore.
     
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