AR-15 Article: Some Won't Like It, But....

[commygun]

I read word for word until “”it’s too complex”, I have personally seen children operate them and no telling how many people with little skill and equipment have “built” them on their

Amen. I was dismissive of the AR until I shot it. And took it apart and understood it. And put one together on my dining room table before lunch.

 

[film495]

I actually have a Mini-14, but you kind of want to know how to use an AR even if you don't own one. I shoot a couple of my friends and for a prepper, knowing how to at least operate the most common firearm seems like a valuable skill, vs. not knowing. might come in handy some day.

 

[WrongHanded]

I actually have a Mini-14, but you kind of want to know how to use an AR even if you don't own one. I shoot a couple of my friends and for a prepper, knowing how to at least operate the most common firearm seems like a valuable skill, vs. not knowing. might come in handy some day.

I agree with you. That's been the reason for many of my gun purchases, including the AR I had.

 

[LiveLife]

"... you can’t find a new AR-15 with an old school front sight assembly."

That guy needs to do some searching on the internet ...

This was in-stock today and just went out-of-stock -
https://www.bearcreekarsenal.com/ca...carry-handle-billet-lower-complete-rifle.html



And this - https://www.bearcreekarsenal.com/ca...-twist-carbine-std-rc-fsp-complete-rifle.html

 

[Demi-human]

IIRC during mag changes and between he keeps hitting that forward assist, constantly making sure that thing is in full battery. I assume he learned to do that for a reason. A weapon you have to baby a bit it seems.

I saw that video. I assumed he watched movies.
Unfortunately, he was alive long enough to see his friends leave him for dead.

I also saw the rifle he was using before he fell.

Seems it was liberated from a blown up Hummer.

Is being blown up a design feature or lack of rifle maintenance?

 

[C-grunt]

There are good reasons why no other Nation State has copied the M16 or adopted it unless it was given as foreign aid, and I believe some of those issues are addressed in the article. Every service member I ever pulled a target with would agree the M16 was a maintenance heavy rifle. A Marine Reservist said in southern Iraq they were cleaning their M16's/M4's three times a day because they were unreliable in the dusty environment. And he expressed amazement at how much sand they could pour into a AK47 (with its top cover off) and the thing would still go bang. A Green Beret bud of mine told me a VC/NVA was found buried in the mud by a bulldozer scraping the road. Bud went over, pulled the AK out of the mud, racked the bolt, and the weapon functioned!

Ummmm, the M16 type rifles are used heavily by other nation states SOF units. You know, the guys that can choose what they carry pretty often and whose countries have their own service rifles. Canada uses a M16 type rifle. SAS and the Royal Marines use a M4 type rifle (Ive seen it first hand). The Australian SAS use an M4 type rifle. The French Special Forces use a M4 type of rifle. Italian Special Forces use a M4 type of rifle. New Zealand Special Forces use a M4 type rile. The Polish Grom use a M4 type of rifle. Portuguese Marines use a M4 type of rifle.

Those are just the Special Operations units (and Canadian military as a whole) of well respected that use the M4. There are far more countries that use it as well. Then if you want to get into the HK416, you're getting into a whole new list. German military just announced they are replacing the G36 with a HK416.

Funny that I never found the M16 or M4 to be maintenance heavy during my times in Iraq. My brother in law who was a Marine infantryman in Fallujah didnt have issues either, Also seems that everyone here who has used the rifle overseas (again, outside of early Vietnam) or have direct second hand accounts from family, arent seeing these issues. But everyone always hears these things from the friend of a friend or the "guy at the range".

Then when you actually see tests done that put debri like sand or ice into the AK system it chokes immediately. Not because the AK is unrelaible, but because if you put crap in an open trigger mechanism it isnt going to work no matter how much folklore you try to throw at it. Go watch the videos from In Range TV. Once debri gets into the AK it's done until you clean it out. Thats why the most reliable guns from those types of tests are rifles that have a closed up system..... like the M16.

Then you see tests like Filthy 14, or the Ballistic Radio KAC SR15 test, and you see the rifles shooting literally thousands of rounds without cleaning (or in Military Arms Channel test, no lube either) and keep on going. Then you have guys who say their rifles do the same thing.


You add all these things up and maybe the stories you hear from the guy at the range who heard from his cousins roommate "who is super secret dark ops" are just BS.

 

[C-grunt]

there used to be a video online of an isil fighter with an "US donated" M16 trying to take on the Kurds in some sandy hills. He gets shot and presumably killed which is beside the point. IIRC during mag changes and between he keeps hitting that forward assist, constantly making sure that thing is in full battery. I assume he learned to do that for a reason. A weapon you have to baby a bit it seems.

Probably more likely he didnt knowhow to use the weapon and/or got his training on the rifle from watching video games.

On the issue of using the rifle until in melts down, I dont know about fully melting down, but you have read about Wanat correct? Times of urgency do occur.

Yes the M4 is not a machine gun. If you treat it like a machine gun it will fail. The problem with Wanat was that the OP was built in a poor position, their heavy weapons were taken out of the fight early on, and they were heavily outnumbered. Yet they still won the battle.

 

[N555]

According to Wikipedia about 99 countries have used the just the M16 at some point in some capacity. So even if Wikipedia is 50% correct that's still a lot more than "none".
That article appears to be FOS on multiple accounts.
They even got the stuff wrong that can be easily looked up.

 

[C-grunt]

Here are some pictures I took when I decided to finally clean my "maintenance heavy" AR15 after 3500ish rounds. Many of those rounds fired suppressed. You can see the carbon built up in the receiver and on the BCG. Thing still ran like a champ though. ARs need oil, they dont need to be cleaned all the time.

20190917_125615 by chase, on Flickr

20190917_125558 by chase, on Flickr

20190917_130303 by chase, on Flickr

20190917_131940 by chase, on Flickr

 

[C-grunt]

Heres some pictures of two of my rifles, a Colt/BCM build and a Colt 6920 after 4 days in the desert in a rifle instructor course. They got pretty dusty. Still ran like a top the full 4 days.

The conditions.

20220216_131727 by chase, on Flickr

20220216_160742 by chase, on Flickr

20220217_150216 by chase, on Flickr

20220216_160737 by chase, on Flickr

20220217_173311 by chase, on Flickr

Here are pictures of other parts of the same range. As you can see it is a desert and youll get dusty shooting in the prone. Especially when there are 15 dudes doing it at the same time.

20211129_121624 by chase, on Flickr

20190921_123215 by chase, on Flickr

 

[12Bravo20]

Now if you want to see a really filthy M16/M4 that is still functioning, then look at any of them right after a long training rotation at Hohenfels or NTC. Long periods of shooting blanks will definitely leave teh M16/M4 caked with carbon on the inside and they still function.

And here is an interesting read from Henderson Arms/Battlefield Las Vegas. They rent out different type of NFA firearms at their range. A lot of their AR15/M16 rifles have very high round counts. And you would be surprised how the less expensive AR uppers have done compared to expensive uppers.

https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/H...ow-they-have-handled-on-our-range/118-677135/

I have personally used the M16A1 an A2 in just about every environment there is from the Arctic to tropical jungles and deserts. They haven't let me down. But then again, I also used the M60, M3A1, and 1911A1 in the same environments without issue either.

 

[25-20 WCF]

I did the opposite of what the OP did. I had a Mini 14 which was surprisingly accurate but not that reliable, even after it went back to Ruger for “repair”. I tired of its fiddly nature and sold the Mini. Then I immediately purchased a new Colt AR with 16” barrel and collapsable stock. That was over 40 years ago and I have never regretted the decision once.


.

 

[Hacker15E]

I owned a Mini-14 in the late 80s and early 90s, it was my first semiautomatic rifle. It was fine at the time, but when I compare it to the AR pattern rifles that are currently available for a fraction of the price, it isn't even close competition.

The arguments used by that author are pretty ridiculous, especially since he doesn't offer any better alternative.

 

[WrongHanded]

I have personally used the M16A1 an A2 in just about every environment there is from the Arctic to tropical jungles and deserts. They haven't let me down. But then again, I also used the M60, M3A1, and 1911A1 in the same environments without issue either.

That's good information.

 

[herrwalther]

I learned years ago, any "source" without an author's name isn't really a source at all. Just opinion by someone not willing to share their name.

Opposite opinion to Mr Green Beret, I served 8 years in the military. As grunt as can be without going "special." My mission involved training Afghans to fight for their country. Most of them never maintained their weapons and I saw plenty of their ironclad AKs fail to work. The myth of AK reliability is just that. They can fail if they are allowed to. The AR is the same way, just requires a higher degree of maintenance. I served with M16s and M4s in plenty of places as well. Most of the reliability issues I dealt with were magazine related and (thankfully) never in combat.

 

[DustyGmt]

And I thought bullet point #6 about the bolt rotating out and unlocking due to gas pressure was an explicit improvement over delayed rotation that Stoner specifically set out to do, was it not? For a high Pressure cartridge like the 5.56 isn't this a good thing?

 

[SharpDog]

I definitely do not agree with some of what was said in that article. Especially about gas tubes being easy to break. They might break if Private Snuffy takes the hand guards off and starts monkeying with it. Otherwise one would have to either drop the rifle from a substantial height or run the thing over with a vehicle.

Is the design perfect? Absolutely not. But it has done well for a long time now. And remember, nothing is GI proof. If a service member can mess something up, they will. I carried both the M16A1 and M16A2 into combat and neither failed me. I was a combat engineer so I was on the front lines (or in front of them) along with the infantry and armor units.

No AR should have gas tubes. Piston guns are superior to DI guns. DI guns aren’t even legal! Says so right in the constitution:

“The Right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be impinged”

 

[.38 Special]

I have no use for AR-15s, considering them ugly and boring. They always have struck me as well-designed and relatively simple to maintain, though, and the ones I have had were exceptionally reliable and, at least in some cases, far more accurate than I had any right to expect.

 

[lysanderxiii]

https://www.readyman.com/blogs/black-autumn/why-the-ar-15-sucks-for-preppers#:~:text=If a build up of,have become all the rage.

I have neither the time or the inclination to pick apart this article in the detail it deserves, but a few things need to be said.

"The gas tube is thin, fragile and subject to bending or breaking—usually taking the rifle out of commission."
In the history of the M16/M4 how many time has this happened? And by the way, if you get a dent in the cover of an AK-type weapon, it won't work either. I have seen them with such damage.

"If a build up of mud, water or carbon decreases gas pressure to the bolt, the the AR-15 fails to cycle."
True of every weapon in the world , past and present.

"The star chamber and bolt face are perhaps the single biggest design flaw of the AR-15. That’s the eight-petaled flower at the front of the bolt. Flowers don’t belong in assault rifles. Some say the star chamber provides accuracy. It does not. Bolt-action sniper rifles don’t have star chambers. They have two or three lug bolts and they are the gold standard for accuracy.
Ask any soldier about weapons inspection and they will tell you the test is worming a pinky in the chamber of the rifle. The pinky never comes out clean and that should give us a clue. The single most important part of the rifle is nearly impossible to keep clean even in a garrison setting. Think about that for a minute: the point where the bolt, bullet, and barrel meet is almost impossible to keep clean in an AR-15."

Apparently, he has not had the pleasure of cleaning a Mauser-type design for inspection by a mean-spirited Stabsfeldwebel. They all suffer from the same difficultly of cleaning inside the locking recesses. Most Mannlichers share this design "feature" . . . Quit whining.

"Almost all infantry soldiers carry cleaning rods to clear this brutal malfunction so they can knock a spent casing out of the chamber and get back in the fight."
Not since 1967 . . .

"The bullet itself is a reliability issue. The 5.56 has a relatively long, slightly tapered casing which begs for issues disengaging it from the chamber."
The body taper of the 5.56mm cartridge case is almost exactly the same as the 7.62mm, the .30-06, and the 5.45mm, Gasp!

"Why do we only load 28 rounds into a 30 round magazine?"
We never did. And all my time in the Army, the only time I saw a down-loaded magazine was at the qualification range, when you got 4 ten round magazines, or three rounders for zeroing...

"The hammer only goes to a 90 degree angle, which is ok, but does not take into account any mishaps, cold or weak primers, or a bolt that is not seated all the way."
Or firing out-of-battery. Incidentally, all weapons include this "feature" . . .

Editor's Note: Before you flame a 28-year Green Beret, please be so kind as to read the research attached below. Then, flame away.

I see three news articles that seem highly biased, to the point of being click-bait, and an actual report that disproves everything in this article and the other three. From the summary:

CNA conducted over 2,600 surveys with soldiers who had returned from Iraq or Afghanistan within the previous 12 months and had engaged in a firefight using the M9, M4, M16 (A2 or A4), or M249 during their last deployment.

Soldiers reported being most satisfied with the M4 and least satisfied with the M9. This trend was found with regard to satisfaction with weapon accessories, maintainability, training, cleaning equipment, ammunition, corrosion resistance, accuracy, smoke/noise/flash, range, and rate of fire.

When soldiers were asked if they experienced a weapon stoppage at any time during an engagement in theater, they reported the most stoppages with the M9 (26 percent) and the M249 (30 percent). Most stoppages were reported to have a small impact on continuing in the engagement with the weapon. . . .Over fifty percent of soldiers utilizing the M4 and M16 reported that they never experienced a stoppage while in theater (this finding includes stoppages during an entire deployment and is therefore not limited to firefights and includes training).

Soldiers issued cleaning kits were less likely to experience stoppages and more likely to be confident in weapon reliability. However, weapon cleaning type and frequency had little impact on stoppages
and repairs overall.

I find the author's research severely lacking, he is apparently very deficient in weapons design knowledge in general and with the M16 in particular. And, a little confession, I am not the M16's biggest fan, but I can judge it without bias.I will happily admit the M16 has some flaws, and some are quite bad, but all in all, it performs adequately enough that lives are not being placed in danger by its continued used by the military.

 

[12Bravo20]

No AR should have gas tubes. Piston guns are superior to DI guns. DI guns aren’t even legal! Says so right in the constitution:

“The Right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be impinged”

This whole thread is about the M16/AR15 and not about what system is better. And for the record. I have used the M16 in combat several different times and it never failed me.

 

[WrongHanded]

Guys, I appreciate the intelligent, thoughtful and knowledgeable insight many of you have replied with. The consensus seems pretty clear: the article is junk. And that's okay by me. I'd always prefer the truth and I'm glad some of you have been willing to take the time and explain what this guy has gotten wrong.

I personal don't like the AR platform. I have a personal dislike for the layout of controls, but I also accept that being left handed does change my perspective to some degree. I realize some left-handed versions are available, but that's another can of worms. I also have some concerns about reliability in adverse environmental conditions. But as I have never tested those aspects of the design, it is only based on my layman's mechanical understanding.

Thanks for the reply. I appreciate your time.

 

[SharpDog]

This whole thread is about the M16/AR15 and not about what system is better. And for the record. I have used the M16 in combat several different times and it never failed me.

That's a lot of words for "I didn't get the joke" !

 

[792mauser]

Hard to follow the article and still figure out where he's coming from.

 

[Conelrad]

AN AR done right is a pleasure to own & shoot.

Well, maybe just the shooting part, as some feel they are kinda ugly.

That is probably due to dumping gobs of 'tacticool' crap on them and having trouble because of that.

I've owned several over the years, to include an M16A1 10-1/2" shorty carbine from Colt. Clean or not, it worked just fine.

I did find out a mag dump of 30 in FA will usually pop the gas tube, but I'd consider that abuse as the rate of fire is pretty fast. At first, I wondered where the top handguard went...

And yes, that armchair pendent is full of it.

Conelrad

 

[Robbins290]

No AR should have gas tubes. Piston guns are superior to DI guns. DI guns aren’t even legal! Says so right in the constitution:

“The Right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be impinged”

Clever joke!