AR-15 Article: Some Won't Like It, But....

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Nothing is GI Proof, but the M16 is close to it. A service member really has to try hard to break one. Ft Leonardwood was still using the M16A1 for basic training up until 1990-1991. Those rifles were well used and abused but kept working with minimal maintenance.

That was me. I went through FLW in '86-'87 and that's what we had... hosed out A1's, it's insane they were still using them into the '90's. BUT. They worked, for sure, and those that knew how to shoot qualified Expert. We thrashed those poor things... far more deliberate abuse than my issue weapons after Basic/AIT ever saw.
 
That article is swimming up stream. I have a Mini and have shot a few AR's but never owned one. For the bucks the AR wins as a SD carbine. I don't like the direct impingement system as much as a gas port/op rod (AK and Mini) but AR works as advertised. If I wasn't a boomer I'd probably have one.
 
Tell me what you think

I own and shoot both M14 and AR 15 type rifles. I've never had a problem except once, a busted extractor in a course. I expect no one wonders which rifle it occurred in because a rifle with literally thousands of rounds through it is going to bust an extractor at some point (it was my Colt SP1 after feeding it steel case). The M14 type system is the shortest time in service of about any semi firearm while the AR type systems have been in service for over 50 years. Other than that one extractor I've never had a problem with any of my old or new AR types and I've put thousands of rounds through some of them.
 
There is a Product Cult around the AR15 and so anyone that criticizes the thing has to face the ire of angry Cultists.

By the way, here is a class on how to create a Product Cult.



There are good reasons why no other Nation State has copied the M16 or adopted it unless it was given as foreign aid, and I believe some of those issues are addressed in the article. Every service member I ever pulled a target with would agree the M16 was a maintenance heavy rifle. A Marine Reservist said in southern Iraq they were cleaning their M16's/M4's three times a day because they were unreliable in the dusty environment. And he expressed amazement at how much sand they could pour into a AK47 (with its top cover off) and the thing would still go bang. A Green Beret bud of mine told me a VC/NVA was found buried in the mud by a bulldozer scraping the road. Bud went over, pulled the AK out of the mud, racked the bolt, and the weapon functioned!

I total agree with this statement,

In testimony before the Senate Armed Services Committee, Maj. Gen. Robert H. Scales said, "American penchant for arming troops with lousy rifles has been responsible for a staggering number of unnecessary deaths…They died because the Army’s weapon buying bureaucracy has consistently denied that a Soldier’s individual weapon is important enough to gain their serious attention.”


Regulatory capture is true of Government agencies. Now I offer a model of the military industrial complex that is counter intuitive, butthe purpose of the Military agencies is not National Defense, but rather the primary of the Military is to maximize the profits of the industrial complex. Weapon acquisition is profoundly political and expensive, and it is the Defense Contractors who bring the bacon home from Congress. And once a weapon is adopted, Government managers do everything they can to maximize the profits of their Prime Contractor, thus protecting their own Governmental organization. Government managers are Corporate sock puppets, and they accept this as long as their jobs, perks, and positions are maintained by their contractor on Capital Hill.

An M16 story: early M16's worked well with the original "stick" propellant. However once the Government told the powder supplier to qualify their production, that is guarantee each lot made would meet requirements, the powder manufacturer told the Government to pound sand. Pressure curve tolerances were actually tighter than state of the art production processes could hold. So the Government used M14 ball powder. God knows why alternatives were not examined, but it was the path of least resistance. M16's fired with the ball powder cartridges had a high malfunction rate. Troops in Vietnam were issued the ball powder cartridges and were having lots of malfunctions in combat, which got many good American boys killed.

However, the Army Ordnance Bureau reserved what was left of the stick powder cartridges and sent them to Colt Manufacturing. Colt used these cartridges in acceptance testing of their M16's. If Colt had conducted function tests with the ball powder cartridges, their malfunction rate, and thus, reject rate, would have gone up. The Ichord Commission more or less considered this criminal conduct by the Army Ordnance Bureau, but no one got in trouble. Because to do otherwise would have reduced the profits of Colt Corporation.

Something else, rifle budgets are chump change. In fact, I can't find a rifle program for 2022. The Next Generation Squad weapon pg 3-5, https://comptroller.defense.gov/Portals/45/Documents/defbudget/FY2022/FY2022_Weapons.pdf three year program cost, including development and production, $165 million. By comparison, the F35 fleet, $1.7 trillion.

Since what would replace the M16/M4 would not be 100% better, and the size of small arms budgets, the forcing function for replacement is small. And it won't come from inside DoD, as DoD's incentives are all about protecting existing contractors. It takes an act of Congress to kill a dysfunctional, massively over budget and over schedule program.
 
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By the way, here is a class on how to create a Product Cult.

Don’t need a class. Just make a product that beats the other choices, throw in large production numbers to reduce production costs and keep it that way for decades on end.

The .gov angle isn’t the only take though. There are tons of them out there winning 3 gun matches, as a competitor, we would shoot anything that would give us an advantage in speed or accuracy over our competitors. However, people that are not shooting some version of an AR are the outliers.
 
I’ll say this, the AR style rifle is easily the least favorite of any gun I’ve ever had. Never really liked them, want say I hate it but I certainly don’t like it. The funny thing is it’s for very few of the reasons he mentioned, I have a different list.

if you love it, that’s great! Buy some and shoot them, enjoy them. Most importantly don’t care what the people in the internet say. Me, I have one and I haven’t shot it in a couple years because I really don’t like it as compared to my other rifles, but that’s me….

You do you, I’ll do me.

also, the article was geared towards preppers, I’ll just say if you don’t have the most popular rifle in the country. Whatever the rifle and country are… you’re not a very good Prepper.
 
I got the article with the BCM upper I bought and read it, it was a pretty good testament to the quality of their products specifically, but more generally it seemed to speak to the common error of people constantly referring to the AR15/M16 as a finicky weapon that needs constant maintenance and cleaning.

Nope, just lube. A lil lube is all it needs and that goes for pretty much all of em... IMG_20220311_150342.jpg this is the actual class gun..... I think it might have been Pat Rogers (not pat mac) that conducted the "test" or logged the maintenance or lack thereof.....

Edited for correction
 
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I got the article with the BCM upper I bought and read it, it was a pretty good testament to the quality of their products specifically, but more generally it seemed to speak to the common error of people constantly referring to the AR15/M16 as a finicky weapon that needs constant maintenance and cleaning.

Nope, just lube. A lil lube is all it needs and that goes for pretty much all of em...View attachment 1065253this is the actual class gun..... I think it might have been Pat Mac that conducted the "test" or logged the maintenance or lack thereof.....

So finicky that one has to lube it...I can't be bothered with that.

There are good reasons why the Stoner design (M16, M4, MK18 Block I, II, III) are still fielded to this day, the simplistic nature, linear recoil, lightweight, corrosion resistance, modularity, and ease of maintenance. Keep them lubed, clean ahead of going outside the wire and replace consumables (extractor, extractor springs, buffer springs, etc).
 
I am not an AR guy except for one that I have owned and shot for quite a few years without one single glitch. My ex-army son was here and I had him read the article. His opinion was " This guy is full of----excretment" to keep this a family friendly post.
 
Bullet point 1
"The height over bore is too high"
For 1 not that it really matters and 2 the vast majority of ARs are flat tops now. So it's a problem buy a flat top. It's not the 1990s, flat tops are common these days, more common than carry handles.

Point 2
"The gas tube is fragiley"
Lie. There is no shortage of tests on the Internet where the guns are shot till the barrel is worn out and bullets keyhole, some where around 10,000 shots. No mention of the gas tube failing. It would appear the gas tube is the intended point of failure to keep some one from running full auto to the point where the chamber warps. Not a problem for semiautos.
Point 3
"The star bolt is the biggest design flaw"
i. "Because it's not accurate", lie. The Henry long ranger uses the "star bolt" and produces MOA accuracy no problem.
AKs use "the more accurate" 2 lug bolt and are not known for their accuracy at all.
ii. "It's too hard to clean" well I can get mine perfectly clean, not that I want to. Just because they aren't smart enough to figure it out or are too broke to buy the right stuff doesn't mean it's a design flat. That's a you flaw. The deep 2 lug bolts really aren't much easier to clean if at all.
iii. "Dirt, wear, ice won't allow the star bolt to lock up" and a 2 lug bolt would be any different? It won't work when it wears out, has ice in it or is full or dirt, well no spit sherlock. What will?
Point 4
"the extractor design has problems"
If you have to beat a stuck case out of the chamber with a cleaning rod it wasn't the extractors fault. Worn extractors cause failure to extract under normal operations, rounds coated with some grit cause rounds to stick in the chamber real good after firing.
Point 5
"The 5.56 round isn't tapered enough"
Well that sounds like the problem is cartridge design and not the gun it's self.
Get an AR chambered in 7.62x39, problem solved if it's really a problem.
Point 6
"the gas system is too fast, tries to open under pressure with great force" Maybe in a hellishly over gassed pistol. There is plenty of high speed videos are available of the AR or M16 firing, the bolt not even trying to move until the bullet is well away from the muzzel. Plus I thought they just said the extractor barely works, how can it barely work and pull the case out with great force? Makes no sense pick one.
Point 7
"poor magazines"
Everything here describes not a gun design problem. There are no shortage of junk mags out there for everything. So because the US government bought cheap mags and reused "one time use magazines" until they wore completely out doesn't mean it's a gun problem, that's a logistics supply problem. My 30 rounders hold 30 but I don't buy cheap junk built by the lowest bidder.
Point 8 "the gas tube dumps carbon into the loading bay" A non problem. I run silencer and dump way more soot into the loading area compared to no silencer and don't have any problems. 10 shots with my silencer looks like a full day at the range with out a silencer.
Point 9
"something about the hammer" I'm not sure what the point here was. The hammer is not supposed to drop on the firing pin when the round is out of battery, by design so the gun doesn't blow up.
Point 10
"cheap magazines" again, not a rifle design problem, don't buy cheap junk mags, problem solved.
Point 11
"the bolt wobles, doesn't line up" Wrong/lie. Only if the barrel was built incorrectly or the upper is way is warn out. Don't buy cheap junk, replace your stuff when it wears out.
Point 12
"buffer spring and buffer out of ballance" that can absolutely happen. People mixing and matching all kinds of different parts not knowing what they're doing. Again, not a design problem. That's a lack of education problem and destitute people thinking they can be their own gun smith problem. Keep AR15 rifle buffers and springs with AR15 rifles, AR15 carbine sprigs and buffers with AR15 carbines and they will run. Keep pistol stuff with pistols and keep AR10 stuff in an AR10. Again not a design problem.

To me it seems like the 2 biggest problems with the AR15 are stupid people and stupid people buying cheap junk.
 
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Bullet point 1
"The height over bore is too high"
For 1 not that it really matters and 2 the vast majority of ARs are flat tops now.
Point 2
"The gas tube is fragiley"
Not really. There is no shortage of tests on the Internet where the guns are shot till the barrel is worn out and bullets keyhole, some where around 10,000 shots. No mention of the gas tube failing. It would appear the gas tube is the intended point of failure to keep some one from running full auto to the point where the chamber warps. Not a problem for semiautos.
Point 3
"The star bolt is the biggest design flaw"
i. "Because it's not accurate", that's a lie. The Henry long ranger uses the "star bolt" and produces MOA accuracy no problem.
AKs use "the more accurate" 2 lug bolt and are not known for their accuracy at all.
ii. "It's too hard to clean" well I can get mine perfectly clean, not that I want to. Just because they aren't smart enough to figure it out or are too broke to buy the right stuff doesn't mean it's a design flaw that's a you flaw. The deep 2 lug bolts really aren't much easier to clean if at all.
iii. "Dirt, wear, ice won't allow the star bolt to lock up" and a 2 lug bolt would be any different? It won't work when it wears out, has ice in it or is full or dirt, well no spit sherlock. What will?
Point 4 " the extractor design has problems"
If you have to beat a stuck case out of the chamber with a cleaning rod it wasn't the extractors fault. Worn extractors cause failure to extract under normal operations, rounds coated with some grit cause rounds to stick in the chamber real good after firing.
Point 5
"The 5.56 round isn't tapered enough"
Well that sounds like the problem is cartridge design and not the gun it's self.
Get an AR chambered in 7.62x39, problem solved if it's really a problem.
Point 6
"the gas system is too fast, tries to open under pressure" Maybe in a hellishly over gassed gun. There is plenty of high speed videos are available of the AR firing, the bolt not even trying to move until the bullet is well away from the muzzel. Plus I thought they just said the extractor barely works, how can it barely work and pull the case out with great force? Makes no sense pick one.
Point 7
"poor magazines"
Everything describes not a gun design problem. There are no shortage of junk mags out there for everything. So because the US government bought cheap mags and reused "one time use magazines" until they wore completely out doesn't mean it's a gun problem, that's a logistics supply problem. My 30 rounders hold 30 but I don't buy cheap junk built by the lowest bidder.
Point 8 "the gas tube dumps carbon into the loading bay" A non problem. I run silencer and dump way more soot into the loading area compared to no silencer and don't have any problems. 10 shots with my silencer looks like a full day at the range with out a silencer.
Point 9 "something about the hammer" I'm not sure what the point was. The hammer is not supposed to drop on the firing pin when the round is out of battery so the gun doesn't blow up.
Point 10 "cheap magazines" again, not a rifle design problem, don't buy cheap junk mags, problem solved.
Point 11 "the bolt wobles, doesn't line up" Wrong. Only if the barrel was built incorrectly or the upper is way is warn out. Don't buy cheap junk, replace your stuff when it wears out.
Point 12 "buffer spring and buffer out of ballance" that can absolutely happen. People mixing and matching all kinds of different parts not knowing what they're doing. Again, not a design problem. That's a lack of education problem and destitute people thinking they can be their own gun smith problem. Keep rifle buffers and springs with rifles, carbine sprigs and buffers with carbines and they will run. Not a design problem.

Thank you for the detailed post. I appreciate it and most of it makes sense to me.

I'm not sure about point number 3: The bolt of many lugs. But bear with me here.

It seems like two large lugs would allow more space for dirty and debris to work their way out of the bolt lockup area. It also seems to me that more lugs means the space between the lugs is reduced, so each one has a narrow gap to fit through. And that the potential for friction on a larger surface area as the lugs move in and out could more likely cause binding. From a mechanical point of view, it does appear to me that this design would be more sensitive. On a theoretical level at least.
 
On the issue of the gas tube being the "weak" link in the system, it's true that during sustained courses of fully automatic fire, the gas tube will fail, but only if you literally have 30+-30rd mags on your person and for some odd reason had to expend 800-900 rds in full auto, in a very short time, as demonstrated in IV8888's meltdown videos, but that is very unrealistic and I don't even know what if any amount of full auto fire it would take under normal firing conditions to make the gas tube fail or wear out....

But, if you were a high volume shooter and were getting your rifle very, very hot on a regular basis and wanted to mitigate the possibility of failure you could just put an inconel gas tube in and call it a day.

I agree with others, it might not be the perfect weapon, but it isn't as weak as this chode makes it sound.
 
I have had spilled ball powder and it jams up both star bolts like the AR and 2 lugs. I don't see enough difference to make a difference between the 2.
Now if you have an AK or mini14 with ridiculous head space, it might not instantly jam up with some dirt, but your head space is so jacked up at that point you're probably shooting 6moa.
Been there, done that.

Edit I feel like they were shrilling for the HK and FN products in the supporting data. They call an SBR M4 an AR15, okay sure....
 
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there used to be a video online of an isil fighter with an "US donated" M16 trying to take on the Kurds in some sandy hills. He gets shot and presumably killed which is beside the point. IIRC during mag changes and between he keeps hitting that forward assist, constantly making sure that thing is in full battery. I assume he learned to do that for a reason. A weapon you have to baby a bit it seems.
 
On the issue of the gas tube being the "weak" link in the system, it's true that during sustained courses of fully automatic fire, the gas tube will fail, but only if you literally have 30+-30rd mags on your person and for some odd reason had to expend 800-900 rds in full auto, in a very short time, as demonstrated in IV8888's meltdown videos, but that is very unrealistic and I don't even know what if any amount of full auto fire it would take under normal firing conditions to make the gas tube fail or wear out....

But, if you were a high volume shooter and were getting your rifle very, very hot on a regular basis and wanted to mitigate the possibility of failure you could just put an inconel gas tube in and call it a day.

I agree with others, it might not be the perfect weapon, but it isn't as weak as this chode makes it sound.
On the issue of using the rifle until in melts down, I dont know about fully melting down, but you have read about Wanat correct? Times of urgency do occur.
 
Yeah my M-16A1 was terrible, that's why I bought three AR15's.
 

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From the article:
The front sight assembly sits ridiculously high

That’s so the guy smoking the cigarette while shooting doesn’t get watery eyes (reference the article photo)

I glossed over the article. It reads like a gun show salesman that doesn’t sell ARs trying to impress inexperienced guys with his vast knowledge to make a sale of whatever he’s selling.

I didn’t use an AR or an M16 in the Navy. We had M14s, Remington 870s, 1911s and M79 grenade launchers as well as a couple of M60s on my ship. I used to believe Nimrods like this guy until I got my own AR. I have one now. I have owned 5. I am not a big fan of the 5.56 cartridge but I have yet to have an AR not fire or malfunction. My only gripe about the AR overall is I don’t care for the charging handle but that’s a small issue with me.
 
On the issue of the gas tube being the "weak" link in the system, it's true that during sustained courses of fully automatic fire, the gas tube will fail, but only if you literally have 30+-30rd mags on your person and for some odd reason had to expend 800-900 rds in full auto, in a very short time, as demonstrated in IV8888's meltdown videos, but that is very unrealistic and I don't even know what if any amount of full auto fire it would take under normal firing conditions to make the gas tube fail or wear out....

But, if you were a high volume shooter and were getting your rifle very, very hot on a regular basis and wanted to mitigate the possibility of failure you could just put an inconel gas tube in and call it a day.

I agree with others, it might not be the perfect weapon, but it isn't as weak as this chode makes it sound.
Ooooo inconel gas tube?
Sounds like tremendous overkill.
I want one.
 
Notice the criticism is pretty much based on internet hearsay. Rehashed, out of date and often wrong. And always a reach. But It's a free country. Don't buy one. Differences of opinion and the freedom to say what you think are what make this a great country.
The star-bolt lugs are so the bolt does not have to rotate more than a few degrees between lock up and release. The results speak for themselves.
 
I couldn't make it past the second point. I've built and rebuilt a lot of ARs and shot the crap out of a few and never broke a gas tube and I'm dumb enough to marry a crayon eater.
If you're points are valid you don't need to exaggerate the front sight height and the reason the A2 post isn't popular is because optics are.
 
On the issue of using the rifle until in melts down, I dont know about fully melting down, but you have read about Wanat correct? Times of urgency do occur.
Well of course, if you need to shoot 1000 rds in 2 minutes or less, the M134 MiniGun is obviously the superior weapon and the AR/M16/M4 is absolute trash......;)
 
A lot in that article seems contrary to my admittedly limited civilian AR-15 experience (maybe 1,000+ rds thru my son's two M4geries and my sis' Anderson AR).

"The [original] front sight assembly sits ridiculously high"
because of the 1950's 1960s fad of putting carrying handles on military rifles and the original AR-10 carrying handle was integral with the receiver and contained the rear sight, which put the rear sight high requiring the front sight to be high. The sight height is ridiculous if you are trying head shots on squirrels between 15 and 50 yards. Not so critical if you are taking center of mass shots on enemy soldiers at 15 to 250 yards.
"... in 2019 you can’t find a new AR-15 with an old school front sight assembly."
So what's the beef? Most AR-15s today are found with the flat top receiver with a picatinny rail and a gas block with picatinny section for whatever iron sight or optics you decide on.
 
I'm not an AR guy even though I do own one and like it. I like my newer 580 series Mini-14 much better. But when the guy referred to the cartridge as a "bullet" he lost me right then and there. You want to impress me then learn the proper nomenclature. Otherwise you show your hand.
 
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