Given the recent events in TX and the guy in MA who was ready to shoot up some malls, have those of you with CCW permits who don't carry decided it's time to carry? Not that I will become a mall ninja, but given the recent events I think I'll start carrying an extra mag. "Lone wolf" attacks seem to be getting a lot of press these days as being the next mechanism of attack.
Are recent events spuring those that have CCW permits, but don't carry to carry?
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9MMare
Member
Today's events definitely make me wish I could legally carrry in more places.
I learned from military personnel today that soldiers on base/post are not allowed to carry...anything. (He said below E-4)
Others confirmed that civilians, contractors, visitors cannot either.
So it was essentially another place where everyone was an unarmed sitting duck.
I'm worried that they will start looking at new handgun laws and new mag capacity laws. People were asking how he could have shot so many with just 2 handguns......
Mine is 17+1 and there are mags for it that will take more.
I learned from military personnel today that soldiers on base/post are not allowed to carry...anything. (He said below E-4)
Others confirmed that civilians, contractors, visitors cannot either.
So it was essentially another place where everyone was an unarmed sitting duck.
I'm worried that they will start looking at new handgun laws and new mag capacity laws. People were asking how he could have shot so many with just 2 handguns......
Mine is 17+1 and there are mags for it that will take more.
cyclopsshooter
Member
wont change my carry tactics- rarely carry on my person... i just keep firearms near...
this is another saddening sign of our modern day society- i really dont know what to say about it. cant even begin to understand the grief these families are going through
why why why?
on an insensitive note, has anyone noticed that no one is crying gun control?
this is another saddening sign of our modern day society- i really dont know what to say about it. cant even begin to understand the grief these families are going through
why why why?
on an insensitive note, has anyone noticed that no one is crying gun control?
9MMare
Member
It just happened...as I mentioned in my post...I am worried about repercussions. Esp. for handguns and mag capacity.
General Tso
member
Muslims and crazy terrorists, hmmm... Is it really that hard to figure out?
cyclopsshooter
Member
im just thinking (bad idea, i know) that the media and antis may not cry foul because it was military
"guns dont kill people, people do"
"guns dont kill people, people do"
Atroxus
Member
I got my CC permit mainly so that I can purchase guns without the 7 day wait. Lately though I am really wishing my wife would not freak out if I started carrying.
Blackbeard
Member
Their usual argument -- that guns only belong in the hands of soldiers -- fails for obvious reasons.
DoubleTapDrew
Member
It wouldn't have made a difference to the TX situation, you can't carry on a military base even with a CC permit.
I started carrying 24/7 when I walked into a burglary in progress. Bad guy had my gun. That's a pretty horrible feeling. You pretty much have to carry all the time unless you have psychic powers and know when and where you'll need it (in which case you'd simply be somewhere else).
I started carrying 24/7 when I walked into a burglary in progress. Bad guy had my gun. That's a pretty horrible feeling. You pretty much have to carry all the time unless you have psychic powers and know when and where you'll need it (in which case you'd simply be somewhere else).
I don't carry and still don't feel like I need to. Now if I have to go to some sketchy place I will carry. Regardless, the 24hr news cycle can make thing seem worse than they are. The US is a 330 million people, and how often and how many people get shot by strangers like this? Not trying to minimize it, but the statistics don't lie, you are more likely to be stricken by lightning. I said that at the gun shop as I bought my CCW Walther PPS, and the looks I got from everyone were worth a million bucks. I explained it was for occasional if ever I had to go some place I was afraid of, and I avoid that like a plague, still the silence in the store was deafening.
Now on base, I'd want to carry. I am not against carrying, I just look at it from a practical point of view realizing every time you carry, the risk of using it and getting into a civil or tight legal pickle goes up. If the risk of liability outweighs the risk of grave injury, then I don't carry. If it goes the other way, I carry with a backup magazine too. But those situation almost never ever arise for me where I live.
Now on base, I'd want to carry. I am not against carrying, I just look at it from a practical point of view realizing every time you carry, the risk of using it and getting into a civil or tight legal pickle goes up. If the risk of liability outweighs the risk of grave injury, then I don't carry. If it goes the other way, I carry with a backup magazine too. But those situation almost never ever arise for me where I live.
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cyclopsshooter
Member
dec41971, i want you as a customer
I just cant subscribe to the "it wont happen to me" mentality, most people thought it wasn't gonna happen to them. If you have a CHL you have an "obligation to carry" and protect innocent people. You never know when something might go down. If you dont want to exercise one of your rights than thats your choice, but IMHO it's the wrong one.
Obligation to Carry, This will put it in perspective.
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cyclopsshooter, forgive me I am lost for the humor.
BTW I used to live up there back in the day and liked going to Oly to shoot paintball on state owned backwoods with a gang of 20 or so friends. Oh I miss WA. I am a Kirkland boy. And no I am not an anti- I have a collection that I shoot the hell out of. At the range atleast 2 times a week way too much IMO.
BTW I used to live up there back in the day and liked going to Oly to shoot paintball on state owned backwoods with a gang of 20 or so friends. Oh I miss WA. I am a Kirkland boy. And no I am not an anti- I have a collection that I shoot the hell out of. At the range atleast 2 times a week way too much IMO.
dkk73
Member
Well, I've been carrying more, and more consistently, since the "beginning" of the recession in latter 2008. I remember a lot of layoffs, and I don't think they've stopped.
When times are tough and spirits uncertain, people feel trapped and isolated. The economic situation adds a lot of stress to people, often those least able to cope. I think this predisposes people to bad behavior of all sorts. Was speaking with an acquaintance who was working as a physician in a local children's hospital and she told me that abuse rates were up. That's a sadder thing yet in my worldview 'cause it speaks to the health and soul of the people.
So... I think there are bigger threats, but I do carry more. Especially in certain contexts.
I'll bet. You'll get a lot of crap even here on THR, too.
But I'm really glad to read your post because you're right. But, it's not really the absolute risk that drives people, it's what one's afraid of... I swear, 90% of the gun folks I know are more likely to get killed by their own cardiovascular disease than some shadowy perp.
As for me, I hate giving up the control of this element of risk. I just hate the thought of not being able to defend my family.
Like you, I am much more scrupulous of bearing arms when I need to travel or work in certain areas. Likewise, on base I don't have much choice.
When times are tough and spirits uncertain, people feel trapped and isolated. The economic situation adds a lot of stress to people, often those least able to cope. I think this predisposes people to bad behavior of all sorts. Was speaking with an acquaintance who was working as a physician in a local children's hospital and she told me that abuse rates were up. That's a sadder thing yet in my worldview 'cause it speaks to the health and soul of the people.
So... I think there are bigger threats, but I do carry more. Especially in certain contexts.
... The US is a 330 million people, and how often and how many people get shot by strangers like this? Not trying to minimize it, but the statistics don't lie, you are more likely to be stricken by lightning. I said that at the gun shop as I bought my CCW Walther PPS, and the looks I got from everyone were worth a million bucks. ... .
...
I'll bet. You'll get a lot of crap even here on THR, too.
But I'm really glad to read your post because you're right. But, it's not really the absolute risk that drives people, it's what one's afraid of... I swear, 90% of the gun folks I know are more likely to get killed by their own cardiovascular disease than some shadowy perp.
As for me, I hate giving up the control of this element of risk. I just hate the thought of not being able to defend my family.
Like you, I am much more scrupulous of bearing arms when I need to travel or work in certain areas. Likewise, on base I don't have much choice.
Double Naught Spy
Sus Venator
Why would recent events spur people to carry? The guy who was going to shoot up a mall didn't, so no problem there. The other incident happened on a military base, which most of us don't live on. Moreover, while big events like these are very newsworthy, they involve very few people.
By comparison, there is a sexual assault in the US about every two minutes, or nearly 250,000 per year (estimated, but 90,000+ reported). That means more folks are raped every 90 minutes than were killed or injured in this event. Reported robberies happened about 450,000 times in 2007. Murders over 16,000 times. Assaults? over 855,000 times. Most of these events were singular events and non mass events.
With so much crime happening outside of massive events, you would think people would be stimulated to be more defensive, but it doesn't happen. Even if these massive events do spur a few more folks to carry, it likely won't last. It virtually never does.
By comparison, there is a sexual assault in the US about every two minutes, or nearly 250,000 per year (estimated, but 90,000+ reported). That means more folks are raped every 90 minutes than were killed or injured in this event. Reported robberies happened about 450,000 times in 2007. Murders over 16,000 times. Assaults? over 855,000 times. Most of these events were singular events and non mass events.
With so much crime happening outside of massive events, you would think people would be stimulated to be more defensive, but it doesn't happen. Even if these massive events do spur a few more folks to carry, it likely won't last. It virtually never does.
ny32182
Member
Yep... once again, there is no detracting from the level of tragedy that this is, but understand that if an event like this spurs anyone to carry, that motivation is based entirely around emotion and the *increased media profile* of the event, and not a measured, calculated evaluation where increased risk is found to be present.
There are at or over 50 murders every day in the country. If the 150 on Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday of this week didn't make you want to carry, then what is different about 12 on Thursday? The media coverage.
50 murders a day, 330,000,000 people in the country... by the raw numbers, your even mathematical chance of being murdered on any given day, assuming everyone's situation is created equal (which isn't the case) is approximately 1.5*10^-5 percent.
There are at or over 50 murders every day in the country. If the 150 on Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday of this week didn't make you want to carry, then what is different about 12 on Thursday? The media coverage.
50 murders a day, 330,000,000 people in the country... by the raw numbers, your even mathematical chance of being murdered on any given day, assuming everyone's situation is created equal (which isn't the case) is approximately 1.5*10^-5 percent.
HKUSP45C
Member
dkk73 said:
Not for me, I'm really not afraid of the criminal element. I do have a little bumper sticker platitude for your statement though. It sums up why I carry very succinctly:
"It's not about the odds, it's about the the stakes."
chuckusaret
member
Your reasoning is flawed. BG's go outside of the "Sketchy Places" to do their thing, like the upscale mall parking lots and upscale neighborhoods where they are better assured to score. I carry 99.9% of the time and the .1% that I don't carry is when I go into town hall. I heard a statement by a person that carries at NRA SD class last week, "For all the people that are able to carry but don't carry, please don't expect me to put my life on the line to defend you against the BG's if the need were to arise. I carry to protect myself and my family as you should be doing to protect yourself and your family".
HKUSP45C
Member
dec41971 said:
Also this logic is flawed in another way. If I feel like I need to carry a gun where I'm going, I simply opt not to go. Seems much safer that way.
Guy de Loimbard
Member
I hate to sound cliche but it's more about the stakes than the odds. I've had a fuel pump die within a week of purchasing the vehicle, and I've come within about an inch of having a wheel fall off while cruising down the highway. I don't subscribe to the "it won't happen to me" line of thinking. I carry everywhere I can legally. If I think I'm going to need it I stay home; for those unforeseen situations, there's 9x18.
ny32182
Member
No one is saying you shouldn't carry; I have a CWP as well and often carry where legal. I believe the point here is that high profile shooting incidents by themselves do not make a logical mathematical case for carrying vs. not carrying.
Atroxus
Member
I should be more clear. When I say I am wanting more to carry due to "recent events" I am not referring just to the incident on the army base. In my neck of the woods there have been several shootings recently. There has also been incidents where criminals posing as police officers have been commiting crimes. In one case they abducted a restaraunt manager an forced her at gun point back into her restaraunt to empty the safe. In another they abducted a couple, stuffed the man into the trunk, then took them someplace secluded and raped the woman. While I know the odds of something happening to me are slim, I don't know that I could forgive myself if something happened to my wife or child and I was unarmed when I could have been armed. I look at it this way. The odds of me getting in a car accident are fairly low as well, but I still wear my seatbelt every time I get in a car. Seeing violent crimes on TV doesn't make me think there is a higher probabilty of something bad happening to me or my family, but it does make me more aware of how vulnerable we would be if something did happen. I just wish I could impress this upon my wife.
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