Are we being selfish?

Status
Not open for further replies.
If I believed that firearms are intrinsically dangerous - intrinsically in the sense that they could harm a person by themselves, I mean - then I would say yes, I'm being selfish in wanting to keep them.

However, back in the real world, I know from experience that firearms are not intrinsically dangerous; the decision to shoot another person is 1) forced upon me by the actions of that person and 2) is made consciously.

The realities, responsibilities and dangers we acknowledge and accept as gun-owners are much greater than antis would ever credit us with; I believe that I'm not being biased when I say no, I am not being selfish in wanting to keep my firearms in the face of our vocal, yet sadly ignorant opposition.
 
Is it selfish to kill a pack of attacking dogs to protect yourself and your loved ones?
No, of course not.
So, is it selfish to not placate the whims of a misguided majority in order to protect yourself and your loved ones.

Thanks for your service to this country, and your efforts to keep ALL of our rights intact.
 
Without the right to life and the defense therof, all other rights become meaningless

As gun owners, pro 2A, responsible adults, are we being selfish in our adamant defense of our right to keep and bear arms?
Click to expand...
Fighting to protect our RKBA does serve to protect one's own interests in the preservation of self, country and countrymen. But does that make it bad? No! Without this freedom, all others are in peril. And this is not some right given us by officials anyway. Each one of us is "endowed by our creator..."

Shooter429
 
I don't see anyone who stands up for his or her rights as being selfish. Everyone benefits from the actions of people who decide they've had enough and use that righteous anger as motivation to create a positive change.
Ask anyone who's ever heard of Rosa Parks.


It's an individual choice and it should be kept that way. If someone doesn't want to own a gun I don't have any business trying to force him to. Same thing goes the other way - no one has any business trying to force me not to. I take that same point of view on most things and realisitically, I'm more likely to support someone who's standing up to any kind of infringement or injustice because of it.

A wise man once said we must hang together or we shall most assuredly hang separately. I think he was right.
 
In a Nation founded on individual liberty & self control with an eye towards living in a state of freedom, if it is being selfish, then so be it.
Sometimes it is said that man cannot be trusted with the government of himself. Can he, then be trusted with the government of others? Or have we found angels in the form of kings to govern him? Let history answer this question. -- Thomas Jefferson
Click to expand...
I have not yet read of any governments anywhere in the world being run by angels (maybe the Vatican... on second thought... nah). Sadly, oft-times the opposite holds true. Luckily for us, to date, we've been spared that fate (for the most part... not without having our moments mind you).

I wonder why? (many thanks to Madison, Mason, et al)
 
NoGuns-NoGuns both removing the need for self-defense and the social consequences
Click to expand...
Actually, it doesn't. Only the removal of all weapons, and instruments easily used as or fashioned into weapons (knives, hammers, crowbars, heavy chains, big nails + 2x4's, boots, strong hands) would even begin to do that, but those who wish to do others harm could still do so by force of numbers, or by preying on the physically weaker. Consider that right now, as many people are murdered every year in the U.S. using shoes and bare hands as are murdered with all rifles and shotguns combined.

2005 data:
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/05cius/data/table_20.html
Total murders............................14,860.....100.00%
Handguns..................................7,543......50.76%
Other weapons (non firearm, non edged)....1,954......13.15%
Edged weapons.............................1,914......12.88%
Firearms (type unknown)...................1,598......10.75%
Shotguns....................................517.......3.48%
Hands, fists, feet, etc.....................892.......6.00%
Rifles......................................442.......2.97%

2006 data:
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2006/data/table_20.html
Total murders............................14,990.....100.00%
Handguns..................................7,795......52.00%
Other weapons (non firearm, non edged)....2,158......14.40%
Edged weapons.............................1,822......12.15%
Firearms (type unknown)...................1,465.......9.77%
Shotguns....................................481.......3.21%
Hands, fists, feet, etc.....................833.......5.56%
Rifles......................................436.......2.91%


The murder rate in the UK was lower than it is now BEFORE guns were tightly controlled, and is arguably on track to match the U.S. rate in a decade or two, barring serious economic upheaval on this side of the Atlantic that might reverse those trends.

Nor does the NoGuns option look so appealing when you consider the history of genocide in Europe over the last 100 years. Granting the government a de facto absolute monopoly on the possession and use of small arms has a very, very bad track record worldwide.

BTW, interesting read on game theory and the structure of civilized societies:

http://www.ejectejecteject.com/archives/000157.html
 
Mom used to say: "If all of your friends decided to jump off a cliff, would you join them?"

Jorg, I believe that you are showing some "post-modern" tendencies. Some of us still believe in absolute truth, and the right to self-defense is one of those.
 
First and foremost, thank you for providing me with the ability to even have rights at all. Folks who serve have a special place in heaven! I also appreciate you providing us an opportunity to exercise another of our protected rights to agree to disagree and learn one from another.

That being said, here's a few words to sum up why I KNOW it isn't "selfish" to (forgive the word) "fight" for 2A to actually stand:

Gatumba, Burundi
Sharpeville, South Africa
Darfur, Sudan
Treblinka, Poland
Phnom Penh, Cambodia


The list of places where bad things happened to decent folks that lead to them ending up dead, by not being able to defend themselves.

The righteous men and women of our armed forces help me to sleep at night knowing that my country's borders are secure.

The right to keep and bear arms allows me to sleep (lightly) knowing that my home is secure and any idoit stupid enough to attempt to damage that calm can be dispatched in an expediant manner.....

If keeping my wife and son safe and alive is selfish, color me the greediest caveman on the planet.
 
I cannot believe my own eyes here!!! Selfish??? we're talking about the Constitution of the United States here. This is not up for polling, focus groups or opinion polls.

WOW! The more I dwell on this, the less I can controll my ability to keep this responce "high road"

WOW!
 
Okay, on a more serious note, in order to address the original post.

"It would seem that the rest of the civilized world wants to end small arms ownership"

I say this. As a demonstration, let them the rest of the world begin by taking the small arms away from the criminals.

John
 
Clicking this link I thought I was selfish for "needing" to buy another safe to store all my guns.

I'd gladly give up some of these possessions to anybody in this world to help save their lives... should they need them to defend themselves from criminals, terrorists or even their own government.

Justin
 
not only is it not selfish to defend our rights, it is foolish and irresponsible not to do so.
Click to expand...

I agree with this statement 100%! We have an obligation to defend the constitution, as I am also a Vet and would like to thank you for your service. I will continue to be my brothers keeper, and even if they took the ones I have I would build another. Not for me but little lizzie.
 
Last edited:
as per the way the rest of the world views the united states. wanting the freedom to marry who you wish, wanting your daughters to be able to scream rape, and have the police care. Wishing to have the right to a fair trial... ALL of these things are considered selfish in countries where women are objects and poor people are pawns. so am i selfish? you betcha
 
Granpa Shooter,

What we often forget in our current environment...

DEMOCRACY SUCKS!
it's just that everything else sucks worse

The founding fathers didn't set out to form a democray, or a republic, they set out to get FREEDOM.

If it were possible to have absolutely no government that is what they would have chosen. Unfortunately, anarchy just doesn't work. They came up with the next best thing though.

First, and most importantly, rules are set up to bind all parts of the government and prevent them from stomping on certain key freedoms.
Second, the government was divided into 3 seperate groups, placed in opposition of eachother, the checks and balances
Third, two of the 3 branches have their heads or members elected democratically.

The founders knew that democray was potentially a tyrant just like everything else, that is why they set up rules binding it.

Think about it this way. For quite some time the majority said owning slaves was acceptable, are you okay with that? If Germany in WW2 had put it up for a vote, and it passed, would the Holocaust been acceptable? If one religion has 51% of the population of a country (or the world) can they vote and say 'Democracy rules, we vote you must all switch to our religion!'?
 
It would be irrational to be anything but selfish. The selfless man is a parasite. He has no identity and dies when those he feeds off of stop enabling him. That being said, screw the majority, whatever they are. They aren't going to prevent me from protecting myself. Remember, might doesn't make right.
 
As a single man, and a member of the military, I owned no personal firearms. As a college student and a single man, I owned no firearms, although I thought about it. As a married man with as many children as my wife and I could pick up and run with, I owned no firearms.

As a married man with more children than we can protect by escape, I now own firearms, and it would be an evil government that would say I could not protect my children. And after all these years, I finally get it.

No, it is not a selfish thing, it is a responsible thing. I had a police chase stop in my front yard. The BG it appeared would run into my house. Luckily, he only turned around and rammed the cop car, ran over several front yards, and was stopped and tazed a couple of blocks away. I could only put all of my kids in one room and stand there with my body blocking the door.

All of those times in my early 20's when I thought I should buy a firearm... I should have. Now I see government and the politically correct trampling more and more on people who hold the same family values that I hold, and I have come to believe that my children or their children may someday need to defend themselves from a socialist, or God forbid, Jihadist government, and I think that they should arm themselves.

No, I don't believe in conspiracy theories, but one can look at social trends and see where that trend could lead. The use of firearms should always be a last resort, but perhaps my grandchildren may need to defend themselves as they flee from an oppressive goverment to save their lives. Or, if unable to do that, to hold the wolves at bay.

Firearms in the hands of civilians. Look at the Cristero wars in Mexico to see how they can, at a minimum, lead to tolerance of those the government hates and wishes to assimilate or exterminate. Google is your friend on this as it is little reported in the history books.
 
I see my ownership of firearms as no more "selfish" than my ownership of sunglasses. Neither one hurts anyone else.

What someone else does with either firearms or sunglasses is not my responsibility.
 
The problem with the question is it infers, due to cultural preconceptions, that selfishness is bad.

Our fundamental legal theory is that selfishness is not, however.

Whatever actions we wish to take should not only be permitted, but someone would have to find a damn good reason to bar anyone from doing whatever-it-is before that action can be legally restricted.

Given that we all recognize that the basis the antis use for banning guns is emotional, as well as illogical and statistically flawed, there is no justification for a ban and our actions are not selfish because our exercise of these freedoms does not provide the reasonable justification required to restrict them.
 
Happybrew stated: As a single man, and a member of the military, I owned no personal firearms. As a college student and a single man, I owned no firearms, although I thought about it. As a married man with as many children as my wife and I could pick up and run with, I owned no firearms.

As a married man with more children than we can protect by escape, I now own firearms, and it would be an evil government that would say I could not protect my children. And after all these years, I finally get it.

No, it is not a selfish thing, it is a responsible thing. I had a police chase stop in my front yard. The BG it appeared would run into my house. Luckily, he only turned around and rammed the cop car, ran over several front yards, and was stopped and tazed a couple of blocks away. I could only put all of my kids in one room and stand there with my body blocking the door.

All of those times in my early 20's when I thought I should buy a firearm... I should have. Now I see government and the politically correct trampling more and more on people who hold the same family values that I hold, and I have come to believe that my children or their children may someday need to defend themselves from a socialist, or God forbid, Jihadist government, and I think that they should arm themselves.

No, I don't believe in conspiracy theories, but one can look at social trends and see where that trend could lead. The use of firearms should always be a last resort, but perhaps my grandchildren may need to defend themselves as they flee from an oppressive goverment to save their lives. Or, if unable to do that, to hold the wolves at bay.
Click to expand...

This is probably the closest statement of my circumstances I have ever seen. I served with honor in the military and was medically retired. As a young man I was not quite as liberal as my family who all still live in the East. As long as the people around me left me alone I was fine. I worked in social services for a number of years and for the State for a few also. Then along came parenthood, property ownership, road rage, home invasions, you name it. The final straw was Sarah Brady and HCI. I started buying guns of all types (yes even one of the evil ones) and just arranged to buy two more. I don't feel bad about exercising my freedoms, it just struck me as I was setting out to finalize the deals, "geez, am I being selfish in this?" I have jokingly stated to people something like this, "Since recent polls show that only one in seven Americans own a gun, it is my civic and moral duty to own enough to equip those who don't" I don't think that is a joke anymore.
 
Being selfish? No. Being educated and having a questioning mind, I question the validity of the polls. Any poll can be created to result in the desired answer. Some of these polls are so obvious it is sickening, however some are very subtle. My view of the world is very small and probably antiquated because I reside in a very rural area, but well over 75% of my acquaintances believe in firearms ownership as a right. In a highly urbanized area this may percentage change but if the membership figures for the NRA verses the Violence Prevention Center are and indicator, I think the majority of Americans believe in firearms ownership as a right. NRA approximately 4,000,000 dues paying members, VPC approximately 250,000 members; who is in the majority?
 
Something I didn't touch on either is that I think you're even putting the selfish label on the wrong people. Aren't the truly selfish ones the ones who want to force their views on others and deny those others freedom to do things that don't infringe on their own lives?
 
Something I didn't touch on either is that I think you're even putting the selfish label on the wrong people. Aren't the truly selfish ones the ones who want to force their views on others and deny those others freedom to do things that don't infringe on their own lives
Click to expand...
As the original poster, I am not sure who you are referring to with your statement. I have stated my position repeatedly throughout this intriguing discourse, so I hope it is not I you are addressing. This started as a purely hypothetical question arising from a thought I had while at this very same keyboard. At times I do wonder about things and reach out to the world beyond my keyboard.
 
Most people do not really think about it. They don't really care about guns and at first thought, it seems reasonable that a world without guns would be a safer place. The "Giant Magnet" theory. Poof! All guns gone. Sound good?:scrutiny:

Without guns, wouldn't we just revert to rule by brute force? We would all be at the whim of anyone who can organize a bunch of brutes with knives, bats or swords.

Gun ownership takes away the power of the gang or the mob and places power - in the form of controlled brute force - in the hands of individual men and women.

So I suppose that gun ownership IS just about the most selfish thing ever. It allows us all to stand on our own. And it is one of the best things that ever happened to the Human Race.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

BigBore44
  • Locked
Are Gun Owners Selfish.....
2 3
Replies
65
Views
3K
Larry Ashcraft
Larry Ashcraft
Skribs
  • Locked
The message we need to get out
Replies
6
Views
426
ball3006
B
Kentucky_Rifleman
  • Locked
Are we being watched by the gun manufacturers?
2 3
Replies
57
Views
3K
22-rimfire
2
A
  • Locked
Ignorance
Replies
23
Views
835
Eric F
E
O
  • Locked
Nice going: we are driving away our own allies.
2 3
Replies
56
Views
3K
The_Antibubba
T
Back
Top