Ask a Bounty Hunter

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HMMurdock

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May 5, 2006
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Indiana, the home of John Dillinger
I am a fugitive recovery agent, aka "Bounty Hunter". It frustrates me how little people know about our legal responsibilities and capabilities, which only gets worse with Hollywood's portrayal of us as outlaws or hitman and even worse-- Dog the Bounty Hunter making us look like background roadies out of a 1980s hair band music video.

I'm sure there are more current and former recovery agents out there, so help me out guys. Let's clear our name-- one High Roader at a time!

I'll get it rolling if you're interested:

We don't need a "search warrant". We need a bench warrant on the fugitive that has skipped bail, usually obtained through the bail bondsman that bonded him out of jail. We can make entry all kinds of nifty places and we have much more in the way of rights than police officers, but they are limited only towards the fugitive on the run as opposed to the masses.

I'm sure I will learn a thing or two and maybe your questions and comments will help me better run my own business.

Thanks, guys.
 
Heres a question for you, what do you do when you have a bench warrant from say Indiana and the fugitive is in Illinois? Or California? Or Mexico?

The bench warrant from Indiana is worthless in all those places. Do you brng in local assistance and seek an addition warrant (and under what jurisdiction does the local court have to grant it)??
 
How much do you usually make per recovery? What kind of licensing does it take? On average what is the most common type of criminal that you go after? (Child support not paid, child molester, drug charges, traffic tickets, murder, etc.)
 
Heres a question for you, what do you do when you have a bench warrant from say Indiana and the fugitive is in Illinois? Or California? Or Mexico?

The bench warrant from Indiana is worthless in all those places. Do you brng in local assistance and seek an addition warrant (and under what jurisdiction does the local court have to grant it)??

I'm not a bounty hunter, but the interstate pursuit, at least within this country has been covered since the 1872 US Supreme Court ruling on on Taylor v Taitor. Obviously, this doesn't apply overseas.

Here is a relevant section of the ruling:
When bail is given, the principal is regarded as delivered to the custody of his sureties. Their dominion is a continuance of the original imprisonment. Whenever they choose to do so, they may seize him and deliver him up in their discharge; and if that cannot be done at once, they may imprison him until it can be done. They may exercise their rights in person or by agent. They may pursue him into another State; may arrest him on the Sabbath; and if necessary, may break and enter his house for that purpose. The seizure is not made by virtue of new process. None is needed. It is likened to the rearrest by the sheriff of an escaping prisoner.
 
MP510:

I wonder though how you can legally carry in those states. For example if one of his clients (for lack of a better term) crosses the border into Chicago. I dont believe anyone but LEOs and city alderman can CCW here in Illinois.
 
It was not all that long ago that some bounty hunters hit the wrong house and killed an innocent person. I believe they were charged with murder as they should be. Good template for anyone who charges into the wrong house and kills the wrong person.
 
Okay, I'll play.

How about this one. You have a bench warrant for someone in Florida. You find them sitting in their car in a parking lot. You walk over, open their door and grab them and they justifiably put 2 or 3 bullets directly into your forehead since what you've done is specifically called out under Florida law as a reason one can use deadly force.

Does it make any difference how you go about your job given the different self-defense laws in different states?
 
Maybe you're more "normal" than the dozen or so bounty hunters that I've run into (?). I hope so!

One of them was so "dedicated" that he kicked down the doors of fugitive's (A) mothers house, (B) sisters house, (C) uncles house, and (D) an apartment where the fugitive had resided almost 6 years before!

Another one wore a REPLICA .45 auto in a shoulder holster! The magazine was a real one, and it had 7 rounds of "live" ammo in it....but the barrel was made of pot iron and had a permanent plug in it. The reason why he carried that replica pistol? He was on parole for ARMED ROBBERY from New York State!

A third bounty hunter was instrumental in getting at least 3 bona fide police officers terminated! He "employed" active police officers as his mini- "SWAT" unit when hunting down armed/dangerous fugitives. Of course the officers were PARTIALLY to blame, but that bounty hunter started the ball rolling by reporting them to their agency....so that he wouldn't have to PAY them for their services!

Yet another bounty hunter was sort of like "Jack Ruby", for he befriended numerous police officers by throwing parties and buying drinks. In return, he somehow "weaseled" his way into having access to official police files at the station. His presence in the police station was so often that everyone knew him, and the records bureau clerks just "assumed" that he was a police officer!

I also met a bounty hunter many years back, and way before the "Dog" became a well-known figure. He thought that he was a "rock star", the way he dressed! He was eventually arrested for impersonating a federal agent. He had forged I.D. cards for the FBI and FBN (now the DEA) in his wallet!

QUESTIONS: Do you have any prior law enforcement experience? Are you currently bonded? If a bona fide law enforcement officer arrests your fugitive BEFORE you can get YOUR hands on him, do YOU take "credit" for the capture, so that the bondsman will pay YOU your percentage?
 
Here is a question for you:

Do you and the others in the bail bonds business ever feel guilty?

I mean when a judge sets the bail at $50,000 for example, and you help the person get out for just $5000. If they go out and hurt others after they skip do you feel bad that you enabled them to skip so easily?
 
MP510:

I wonder though how you can legally carry in those states. For example if one of his clients (for lack of a better term) crosses the border into Chicago. I dont believe anyone but LEOs and city alderman can CCW here in Illinois.

IL doesn't seem to allow bounty hunters.
Ch. 725 §§ 5/110-7, 5/110-8. "No bail bondsman from any state may seize or transport unwillingly any person found in this State who is allegedly in violation of a bail bond posted in some other state." Ill. Stat. Ch. 725 § 5/103-9.

I don't know anything about their carry stuff, because I don't live there, and as I mentioned already, I am not a bounty hunter.
 
Dog the Bounty Hunter making us look like background roadies out of a 1980s hair band music video.
I wonder how he catches anyone, looking like a circus act. It has to be obvious to everyone he is in the neighborhood.
Does it make any difference how you go about your job given the different self-defense laws in different states?
Some states do not permit the bail recovery agent to make the apprehension. He is required to notify local law enforcement of the location of the fugitive and they make the arrest. The agent gets credit for the apprehension.
I mean when a judge sets the bail at $50,000 for example, and you help the person get out for just $5000. If they go out and hurt others after they skip do you feel bad that you enabled them to skip so easily?
See the Eighth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.
 
Bondsman or AKA Bounty Hunters job attracts many ex cons, and thugs who are looking for a thrill ride while making money. The main problem is that many states, including Mass do the regulate Bounty hunters to the extend they should, nor keep track of them. This gives them a free reign to use whatever means to complete their objectives including violating peoples civil rights by repeadly bust into wrong residences, rough family/friends up, use extrotion to gain advantages on their prey. I personally, would like to see the practice abolished in every state. Though in the mean time there has to be an effort to reign in outlaw bounty hunters, by making strict regulations, on there licensing and training. Maybe if States required Bounty Hunters to go through similar training as Police, with extensive background checks it would weed out many of the overzealous types.
 
Crap, here's a long one....

Here's to the best of my ability-- lemme know if I get anything wrong or if I skipped anything.

Mullets-- perk, but not required :cool: I have a professional buzz cut, by the way... But yes, too many guys in this line of work do have them. *shudder*

Licensing. Most states don't require licensing. You just need to be gainfully employed by the bail bondsman, who is licensed. However, I know little about this because I am from Indiana which does require a license. As does Nevada, and if I'm not mistaken, California requires you to have law enforcement certifications and Florida now requires you to have a full bondsmans license instead of just a recovery license.

Bondsmen can write bonds and do recovery. Recovery agents can only recover.

The licensing in Indiana requires taking a test pertaining to the laws that govern our behavior-- when to shoot, not shoot, when and were we can solicit business, and when and where we can make arrests. We also have to pay a fee and renew our license every 2 years. We are subject to full background checks and the like. You cannot be a felon, but people like "Dog the Bounty Hunter" (who did time in the state pen for accessory to murder) can get that waived by writing nice letters to the right people...

Yes, Taylor v. Taintor gives us the right to go out of state, so a bench warrant in Indiana is good anywhere in the United States. So someone that skips in Indiana can be arrested even if they are in, say, Alabama. The only stipulation is that I, as the recovery agent, has to adhere to their laws. Example being that in many states, I can enter the residence of a 3rd Party without a specific warrant. So if you skip and youre in your brothers house in Alabama, I can kick in the front door to arrest you. So advice to everyone: don't harbor a fugitive.

We get a bad wrap, but we cannot "harass" and strongarm people. We can lie, yes, and we do, but that is necessary for the job. If we had to adhere to the strict rules and regulations of the police force and more, then bail skippers would not be found and courts would stop writing bail bonds. If anyone here has been wrongfully accused of a crime, I'm sure they'll express their gratitude for the bail bonding system. So until people become honest (never gonna happen) we have to get a little dirty to find people.

Criminals working as recovery agents is mostly a thing of hollywood, at least around here. We are subject to background checks and the Dept. of Insurance (the department we are licensed through) denies people all the time for those reasons.

States like Illinois, Kentucky, and Texas do not let us do the recovery ourselves. We have to go through the law enforcement channels and have the individual handed over to us.

We cannot carry guns in other states with our license. All we have is our standard carry license like anyone else. I have an Indiana CCW permit, so I can only carry in states that honor Indiana's license. For the rest, I carry the fire extinguisher full of mace. And for the states that don't even allow that, I use harsh language and idol threats. --No one said being a bounty hunter was sexy :uhoh:

Do bondsmen feel guilty? I only recovery and do not write, but by and large-- they are human beings with consciences (unlike lawyers). But they are businessmen who contribue something to society. Not every that is arrested is guilty, and its also cheaper for the city/county/state to not have to feed and clothe every offender for months until the courts catch up... Bondsmen try to keep a tight leash on their bonds for that reason.

I am pretty professional in how I conduct business. Unlike the "dogs" of the world, I wear a suit or 5.11 khakis most of the time. I get dirty, but thats part of the business. Although you'd be amazed at how much wrong information we are given and its hard to sort through it. Sometimes its intentional and sometimes people want to help so much they try too hard and give you crappy information. It is our responsibility to check and double check our information before taking serious action, but it is also the responsibility of the public to assist us. When we knock on the door and declare we have a warrant, please greet us at the door. A "go away" from your couch isn't gonna help either of us and might result in you needing to replace your front door...

I have no formal law enforcement experience outside of being ASP certified at present. I have had much training for law enforcement officers, but nothing "official". Too many guys in our profession take years of barfighting as all of the training they need. I work with a former police officer, I have been trained thoroughly by him and others, and I am constantly seeking to better my skills.

Do we take credit for the arrest if the police catch him first? Its hard to do because we get a "receipt" from the bondsmen when we drop the guy off. So without the receipt we don't get paid. But depending on the arrangement with the bondsman, sometimes we get it. Example: if the guy is caught by the police, the bondsman's money is protected. He doesn't know that until we find out where he is. Even though I didnt "catch" the guy, I found out he is in custody and the bondsman can complete his paperwork. So instead of my 10% fee I get 5% if he is already in custody or if the police show up to my arrest and insist on taking in the guy.

As for the question, "How about this one. You have a bench warrant for someone in Florida. You find them sitting in their car in a parking lot. You walk over, open their door and grab them and they justifiably put 2 or 3 bullets directly into your forehead since what you've done is specifically called out under Florida law as a reason one can use deadly force. Does it make any difference how you go about your job given the different self-defense laws in different states?" --We don't walk over and grab them out of the car. We display our credentials and announce our arrest while we are walking over and grabbing them out of a car. Their gunfire is not justifiable if they know they are on bond (most skips legally cant have firearms) and we have the proper credentials, so shooting at us during an arrest is like shooting at the police during the same. If we have identified ourselves then they have no excuse... We must adhere and obey and expect the self defense laws in the different states, but I am unaware of any state that permits you to fire at law enforcement officers as they are trying to make a lawful arrest...

We usually get the bondsmans initial fee of 10% of the bond or close to it, give or take. And the most common are generally smaller crimes like check fraud or domestic battery. But we get any bailable offenses, which is anything shy of murder. So I've gotten warrants for bad check writers and child molesters in the same day.

I'm sure I missed a few and I'm sorry my post was so long, but lemme know what else I can answer. And if any fellows agents or bondsmen sees something wrong in one of my posts, please correct me! Thank you.

TRL
 
Man, I gotta say, if you kick in doors of 3rd parties on suspicion alone, I'm surprised that you don't get shot. I've known a few folks who have been "in the system" and if my door gets kicked in just because you think a jumper "might" be in my home because I used to know him, you're leaving my home in a bodybag.
End of story.
Maybe I misread you...

Biker
 
No, we verify the skips presence before we make entry. Otherwise we call in the police and make entry if they give us the go ahead. That happened one time. It was a wrong address and we were very polite but the people refused to cooperate. We just wanted to show them our flyer in case it was the wrong address --it was his mothers last known address. We called in the police and the people refused to open the door for the police officer so he told us to kick it in. Our boy was not there and the police officer wished them a nice day with a friendly remind to cooperate with anyone with a warrant. They refused to come to the door, despite our calls of having a warrant and the Sheriff's Deputy demand to at least answer the door and look at the flyer.

No, we don't/can't kick in the door of a 3rd party on suspicion alone. Not if we don't wanna wind up dead or worse: in the slammer with a bunch of guys we have arrested...

Most places we can make entry as long as we are 100% positive the person is in there AND our entry results in an arrest...

TRL
 
And for the states that don't even allow that, I use harsh language and idol threats.

"Come out with your hands up or the effing golden calf is gonna get it!" *Slapping knee*
 
First, I think you're a brave guy (silly maybe, but brave) for (unasked) going out of your way to answer questions on your profession, and that I'm sure there's good, honorable folks doing this work. Second, I generally harbor no pity for criminals.

That said....

We must adhere and obey and expect the self defense laws in the different states, but I am unaware of any state that permits you to fire at law enforcement officers as they are trying to make a lawful arrest...

First, kicking in someone's door-especially someone who has nothing to do with anything-is certainly setting yourself up to participate on one side of self defense laws...and in my house, that's going to be on my side. The fact that there's been more than a few folks killed unecessarily by moronic fools doing this, the fact that there's real bad folks that are forceably entering homes even disguised in some fashion as police themselves, the fact that even convicted felons can be employed doing this clearly denoting the distinct lack of regulation of the profession, the fact that real police no-knocks is such a horrible concept in practice for many of the same reasons, triples this belief.

And without being combative, you (collectively) aren't law enforcement officers. You're not police, sheriff or otherwise: you aren't uniformed, you don't go through police officer training or certification, despite being cleared in some fashion to go find someone who has skipped a bond on, essentially, thier behalf.
 
They refused to come to the door, despite our calls of having a warrant and the Sheriff's Deputy demand to at least answer the door and look at the flyer.

I have no real problem with operating in that fashion - knock on the door, if they don't respond or refuse to answer, call the police. Personally, if someone pounded on my door claiming to be a bond recovery agent with a bench warrant, I'd tell him to wait until the police arrived and that I was calling 911 right now. Hopefully, the bond folks would agree to wait until police arrived on the scene. If they tried to force entry prior to police arrival, it would get loud.

My reasoning? I don't know enough to tell what's a legitimate bench warrant and what's not, or how to validate the credentials of a bond agent. I'd expect my local police would be able to do so, at which point I would cooperate to the extent compelled by law.

That said, the number of people I know who have been in jail or on bond can be counted on one hand.

Busting down doors in the middle of the night, even if you /know/ the skipper is present, sounds like a good way to get yourself or someone else killed. Why not just set up a perimeter, call the cops, and let them do the hard work, assuming they're available? Seems like you'd want the cops already present anyway just in case shots are fired.

(I'm not saying it's okay to put police in harm's way - I'm saying they are better trained, equipped, and supported for the mission.)
 
Murdock,

Very well said overall. I work part time in recovery here in Pennsylvania and some of the people I've "worked" with haven't been much better than those I've gone after. I believe that is where the negative image of bounty hunters, etc, comes from.
As for experience, some people here have none, while others are retired LEO's, military, or similar. I have 4.5yrs of LE experience, and a variety of training and certifications while I was on the job. I left LE work for personal reasons and find this line of work more fullfilling in the end.
I always try to be professional to the best of my ability and work with local law enforcement whenever possible. Most of our skips are drugs, fraud, domestic, etc. Most tend to hide in areas that are less than desirable, so I would prefer to be armed whenever possible. I also prefer to stay inside PA as much as possible to make carrying a sidearm easier.
I also don't boot a door or make forcible entry without solid proof the skip is in the residence. Example was my last case where we saw the guy peeking out of an attic window while his girlfriend was screaming "He ain't here". That was pretty cut and dried. Others are more difficult and that's the way it usually happens.
Sorry for being a bit long-winded, but I think this line of work in most cases has gotten a bad rap and in most cases it's undeserved as we do provide a valuable service. As for Dog, well, he's flamboyant as hell and his style of dress and tactics are over the top, but he does have a HUGE number of recoveries and hasn't gotten killed yet, so he must be doing something right. All aside, I kinda like him\his show, etc.
 
No, we verify the skips presence before we make entry. Otherwise we call in the police and make entry if they give us the go ahead. That happened one time. It was a wrong address and we were very polite but the people refused to cooperate. We just wanted to show them our flyer in case it was the wrong address --it was his mothers last known address. We called in the police and the people refused to open the door for the police officer so he told us to kick it in. Our boy was not there and the police officer wished them a nice day with a friendly remind to cooperate with anyone with a warrant. They refused to come to the door, despite our calls of having a warrant and the Sheriff's Deputy demand to at least answer the door and look at the flyer.

So, basically, because a homeowner was rude and didn't want bothered, it was OK to kick in an innocent person's front door?

Note to self, if a bounty hunter EVER comes to my door and starts doing his thing, refuses to leave when told he is at the wrong place, and demands I open my door to a complete stranger; load the AR and be ready to shoot the SOB.
 
When we knock on the door and declare we have a warrant, please greet us at the door. A "go away" from your couch isn't gonna help either of us and might result in you needing to replace your front door...

yeah ... like from the bullets going out through the door :p


Hey, I'm not knocking what you bond recovery folks do - but you all better be darn careful especially in states like Montana. My thoughts are pretty much in line with what Beren said, and anyone but the local deputies are going to get a rude reception at my house.;) I don't have any warrants out for me, nor do I know anyone who does.
 
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