Ask a Bounty Hunter

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Refusal to talk to us is probable cause.
:rolleyes: Well the Supreme Court of the United States disagrees with you.
Hate the bail system all you want.
I don't hate the bail system at all. In fact I'm quite fond of the 8th Amendment, just like I am of the rest of the Consitution. I do however have problems with bondsmen putting up 90% of the bail, and the defendant only putting up 10%. It reduces the financial risk to the defendant, and enables them to flee more easily.
We enforce laws but we are not law enforcement officers.
You don't enforce any law, you attempting to enforce a contract made between the bondsman and defendant.

I won't keep picking apart that post line by line. There is so much nonsense on there it would take forever.

IF, you really are conducting business as you say you do in some of these stories, it's only a matter of time before you are either hurt,killed, sued and/or prosecuted.
 
Originally Posted by DMF:

Well that's what many say about cops serving warrants too, so why would you expect a different reaction when talking about bounty hunters?

True. But this thread is not about that. it is about someone offering to tell us about his employment. Suddenly it turned into I am a man. I have a Gun. I am now a tough guy. Lets get back on track and listen to what the man has to say.
 
Tecumseh, the origial poster asked for comments from the peanut gallery. Now that he's getting comments, he doesn't like them. If you don't want to hear the answer, don't ask the question.

For example, in the opening post he wrote: "We don't need a 'search warrant'." This is incorrect ... or incomplete. The "bench warrant" to which he refers is not a warrant to search premises, it is a warrant to arrest (or to take into custody, more correctly, since the fugitive has already been arrested and recovery agents have only the power of citizens arrest). Yes, the bench warrant gives him the authority to enter a premises to take the fugitive into custody if he knows the fugitive is in there. It does not give him any authority to break down my door because I'm zoned out on the sofa and don't feel like answering the door to tell whoever the hell it is to go away I don't want any. He may think it gives him that authority, but as DMF has stated, if he continues to operate that way, he's going to encounter the learning curve rather abruptly some day.

He didn't actually offer to tell us about his employment, so much as ask us to ask him questions and give him feedback.

Check.
 
To clarify

i did not post nor did i read anyone else post that they would shoot at a law enforcement officer

if a bounty hunter comes to my home WITH a leo, i will give that officer the respect he deserves and explain no fugitives are here and i do not give my consent for my house to be searched.if a leo makes an illegal search after i have denied consent i will take every legal action the law allows for my rights being violated

I will not extend that same courtesy to a bounty hunter who shows up with without a law enforcement officer present

I respect police because they are sworn to protect me,my rights,and my property

a bounty hunter is a citizen,and will be dealt with like any citizen attempting to enter my home without my permission

And the thread starter needs to stop putting himself and a law enforcement officer in the same boat

bounty hunters are not police.they don't have to meet the same qualifications,they don't have the same training,they don't have to respect people and their rights the way sworn law enforcement has to.

bounty hunters are quick to want to associate themselves with the police ,but don't want to follow the same rules the police has to follow
 
An excellent summary, S&W. The only change might be that bail recovery types are not required to respect the rights of their target. The laws about recovering bail jumpers are very 18th century. The bond holder has a sort of lien, almost ownership, on the person and can treat him pretty much like a thing in order to protect his interest.

It comes down to this. A bench warrant is not a search warrant. If an LEO shows up he gets the usual respect and courtesy. He does not get into my house without a search warrant. If he has one I'll cooperate.

A bounty hunter is nobody special. If I'm not harboring a bail jumper he does not get into my house no matter what sort of interest he has in his target. If he tries to, he's a dangerous intruder. This isn't "I have a gun, I'm a man" like the BS answer we got from Tecumseh. This is defense of one's home against armed intruders, armed intruders whom I have reason to believe are particularly dangerous and have regular professional experience with violence. That means a very vigorous and desperate defense.
 
Thats what i meant Tellner,that they don't respect peoples rights

i dated a girl who's brother was a bounty hunter and the stories i heard was awful

they would verbally abuse 80 year old mothers and fathers ,break into relatives houses,and her brother made it a point to drive whoever he captured to the bail office in the trunk of his car
 
HMMurdock,

regarding
I am somewhat appauled by the wanton taking of life you people are claiming to endorse...

There is a small but loud pecentage of people in this (and other) forums that respond with irrational and innapropriate responses on certain subjects.

As DMF posted
Well that's what many say about cops serving warrants too, so why would you expect a different reaction when talking about bounty hunters?

Consider those respondents as the "Noise" in the signal. and try to ignore them.

I hope this thread continues it is interesting.

First the mandatory, I am NOT a lawyer or LEO I have not clue as to the legality of the situations stated.

For those who are posting that the legalities are incorrect I must ask a question have you read the laws for "bounty hunters" for the state that the incident took place in ?

Laws vary state to state, so I am only speaking on my experience with the few states I've been in, mostly Indiana. Some states give us incredible leeway and others are very restrictive. And we don't operate the same in every state,

If state laws vary that much could that be the cause of the disagreement on the legality instead of ignorance or malice?

NukemJim
 
And you seem to be suspecting we aren't armed. And empty your AR-15 all you want, you're going to have to face the police when the shooting is over and your goose is fried if your brother that was visiting from out of town has his face on our warrant and you didnt know it. Take my life and you better bury my body. That is assuming you get me first.

Actually based on the laws in my state. After you have made an forced entry into my home, regardless of who else is inside. I can shoot you. I can then call the police and they will haul your body off. Whether or not I sue the your employer is up to me. Oklahoma home defense laws were not written with the protection of bounty hunters in mind, just the homeowners. If you do not like it, call the local LEO office and have them provide the warrant and make entry for you.
 
Both sides of this thread are interesting...and the thread starter never balked at any comments, he basically said "bring it". It was others that objected.

The business has a horrible reputation, the Exetutive Protection School I attended does background checks of students and said they wouldn't accept "bounty hunters" or thug type "bodyguards." They just didn't want to be associated with it at all. Personally, I think it is a natural attraction for power abusive bad apples, but there are some good ones too. HMMurdock seems professional and reasonable and if he treated me like he says he treats others, we would get along fine.

BH: "I'm a Bail Enforcement Agent looking for so and so" Me: "Really?, well I'm goody-goody home owner and don't know him" BH: "This is is last known address..." ME: "Well, I'll call the police, when an officer shows up, if you still think he's here, I'll let you look" That exchange sounds reasonable to me...especially if this is the correct address. If this isn't the fugitives last known address, I wouldn't let them in as they would have to prove why they think he is here and that would be impossible.

His comment about a dinner guest is thought provoking though, how well do you know your friends? If they said they were looking for my friends name, and he was there, I would tell them. He (fugitive "friend") shouldn't have brought that mess to my house.
 
I have a real problem

with the powers given to so-called bounty hunters. A few years ago in Indianola Iowa two of them busted into the wrong house and roughed up and scared a whole family out of their wits. I had hoped the Iowa Legislature would tighten the rules regarding "bounty hunters" but they did not. I firmly believe there should be no such thing allowed as your profession. It should be left to a division of standard law enforcent. I know that, for example, Las Vegas and Des Moines both have fugitive recovery units in their police departments. Bail jumpers could be a target of these teams. I think bounty hunters have too much power, generally, for the limits that are put on them by law.
 
It's not that I hate the comments I'm getting, I'm just disturbed. But I get them on a daily basis.

I apologize that I did not word some of my lines so we as not not be taken out of context as they so readily have.

One said the supreme court disagrees with my right to search the adddress on the bench warrant? No it does not, for it has repeatedly supported those in the bail system with these complaints. I do not have any specific case names at present, but I challenge you to find one where the bail bondsman or agent raided the home on the warrant and got put away (excluding the two or three states to don't permit any activity of bail enforcement officers). You brought it up, so the burden of proof is on you. When has the Supreme Court sided against us in such circumstances? I and thousands others conduct such searches regularly. 90% of the time it results in an arrest.

I did not make the call to raid that house nor did I say I such stories were common, but they do happen. In this case, the LE officer told us to because we had legal right and the person refused to speak with the law enforcement officer after he commanded the homeowner to come to the door or "at least tell me who I am speaking with." A few "**** you"s to the police officer and he varified our warrant and told us to make entry. I didn't want to and would not have just because I always play it safer than sorry, but I was told by the cop to make entry, I did, and it was PROVEN legal. Don't like it? Write a congressman.

It was said that anyone thats not an LE in someones home can be shot. Simply not true. I know of recovery agents that have lost their lives because they raided the correct house and were killed, and the person that show them got put away with 2nd degree, I believe it was. True stories.

I cannot agree more that my profession should be more restrictive on who works in it. The way "search warrants" are legally set up, law enforcement cannot have the latitude we do in finding someone. That is why LE officers cannot become bail agents. There is a legal distinction between us and LE officers, and we can do more than a cop in finding our guy, but we are limited to only our guy. We simply have more rights than the police when it comes to finding someone. End of story. Don't believe me? Call your bondsman. We have far more rights than police in finding someone, but they are only restricted to that individual. But this power does attract abusive people which gives me a bad name. I have a clean record, my heart is in it, and I would gladly subject myself to any battery of tests, reviews, education, or certifications that might prove necessary. The more training I receive the more efficient I am, and I do not disagree with any comments on that.

While on that subject, we do not legally have to respect the persons rights, at least not as compared to police. Police are community servants. We are not. And when the person signs the bond, they essentially sign away many rights and become the bondsman's or assigned agent's property. Many take full advantage of this. However, the smart ones in our business are careful because there's a line between what we can do and simple "good business." If I bash in a guy's face I wouldn't expect to get employed by that bondsman again. Nor, if I were the bondsman, would I hire such individuals. But the stuff we can legally do is nauseating by man. As I said before, I have yet to seriously injure anyone and I hope I never have to.

And thank you, the dinner guest scenario happens more than you think. Your cousin stops over for a beer and guys are kicking in your door. You may have no idea, but you are in trouble if their warrant is for your cousin and whether you knew it or not, if they offered warning (knocked) or are wearing identification, you cannot kill them. Well, the law of physics says you can kill them but the law of man says you can't unless you wanna be showering with undesirables in State. You must identify your target before you take a life. If its in all black, toting a gun, and doesn't identify itself-- warn it and shoot away. Otherwise, you might be accidentally buying yourself a minimum of manslaughter charges.

Many on here seem to be quoting what they heard or what they think the consitution would mean. I have yet to year a lawyer, bondsman, recovery agent, LE officer that is familiar with the bail system in their state, judge, or anyone with appropriate knowledge make such comments. Please research before you embarass yourself. I apologize now for any mistakes I have said or will say, for I am only going by my experience in the states I have worked in. But feel free to call a bondsman in your state and ask what they are capable of.

We have legal right in most states to make entry if our skip is in your house. Whether you know it or not (which is why we usually give yout he privelege of knocking on the door, first). Don't believe me? Call a bondsman and see if he doesn't agree. Note: This only applies in MOST states. Don't like it? Write a congressman. But when someone, god forbid, hurts your or someone you love and gets released on bond and skips (which is as easy as not showing up to court), you'll be grateful that guys like me risk our lives to bring them back into the system so they aren't free to do it again.

There is a show on Discovery channel that just started called "Fugitive Strike Force", I do believe, and it showcases ride-alongs with Las Vegas SWAT, US Marshalls, and Bounty Hunters. Check it out. You might learn a thing or two.

And please, anyone with real experience-- and not the "nuh-uh, you are wrong because I said and/or that just can't be right" --please correct me on any mistakes I have said. I am here to learn, too.

TRL
 
OK, going with your scenario: My cousin comes over for dinner and you have a warrant for him. You show me the warrant you can have him. You kick in my door you die. If he had dinner and left, I'll tell you he isn't there. You kick in my door you die. Call a cop and I'll tell him my cousin left. You kick in my door you die.

Your belief that a bail jumper is in my residence doesn't make it so. Not in truth, not in law.
 
As you have posted before about burden of proof. You are the one claiming the past trial history,show me a case where a bounty hunter has forcibly entered a private residence, not of the bail jumpers, or the person that signed for the bond,and has been shot by the homeowner, and then the homeowner is charged for murder.

On the other hand, there have been more than a few where bounty hunters have been charged with illegal entry, battery, murder etc.

By the laws currently in force in my state, if you attempt forceful entry in my home while armed, and I am not the bounty or the person that signed for the bail, I own you. You are my bitch. Any continued breathing you do for the rest of your life is a gift from me.

You are more than welcome to attempt prosecution if you survive, but it will not fly. You might want to look up the castle doctrine for most states. The laws concerning bounty hunters are federal. The castle doctrine is mostly written on a state level. It would actually be against the law in my state for the state to attempt to prosecute me for shooting a home invader.

Do you really think your employer is going to work that hard to get me prosecuted on a federal level if I shoot you while you are attempting a home invasion? He is just going to grab the next ex-felon wannabe in line.

Sorry, but as much as you are trying to claim you are a lawful authority, you are not. You are just a private contractor.
 
Have to agree with DocZinn here. HMMurdock I think you're missing something here and have consistently failed to understand it several dozen times. So please address it correctly.

If we are not harboring a fugitive for whom you have paper you are not entitled to enter our homes. True or false?

If you do, you are acting outside your authority and are subject to the normal laws concerning a person's right to protect himself. True or false?

You don't have government-issued identification proving that you are who you say you are. True or false?

If armed men break into your house and aren't law enforcement officers with a search warrant you would protect yourself. True or false?

I think I speak for everyone not actually in your profession when I say that you and yours had better be damned sure that you have the right house with the right person inside. If you don't you are violent criminals the moment you break into our homes. And you will be treated as particularly dangerous ones.
 
NO NOT TAKE WHAT I SAY AS LEGAL ADVICE

I'm appauled at how selective some people read their lines...

I kick in your door and the fugitive is in there, I'm legally correct. To ensure he is, we knock first. If you didnt know he is a fugitive, you are now informed. If you lie, you are harboring a fugitive. If you demand an LE officer and lie, you are still harboring a fugitive. If I "believe" he is in there and force entry without LE, and he is not-- you have full right to kill me. That is why we must first know for a fact he is in there. --That is why we knock.

We legally must declare our warrant at arrival to evade any mistakes like you have said. So, if we are in plain clothes, kick in the door with announcing who we are and what we are there for, and start toting a gun around-- kill the hell out of us. We deserve it. I'm not saying we do that. We generally wear ID, knock to notify you we are there to serve a warrant, announce our presence, and generally wear badges.

Shooting at guys in badges is not a good idea. Not so much bounty hunters, but you never know if they are undercover narcs. And legally, narcs must be wearing ID when they make entry. Same goes for us.

Anyone wants to shoot at me while I am making a lawful arrest? Do it. Only one of us will be walking out and I know who my money is on, as well as who the law is with.

DocZinn, I appreciate your acknowledging that if we show the warrant you will cooperate. We appreciate it and that is why we show the warrant before making entry --assuming you arent, as it has been said, "zoned out on the couch". And we don't just knock. If not met with an answer, we declare we have a warrant and want someone to come to the door. Hopefully, that would snap out out of your zone, just as "POLICE" would. I cannot speak for others, but "Bail Enforcement!" and "Fugitive Warrant!" are generally what I say when I knock.

We are not (usually) morons that walk up, nod to each other that we think the guys in a place, go straight to kicking in a door, overturn your sofa and don't expect consequences.

I have never just run up to a house, kicked in the door, and run through trying to make an arrest. Never and I never will. In many states we can as long as the guy was in the house (meaning it resulted in an arrest) and we announced our warrant. I still play it safe and always knock and try for a peacful end. I don't like to fight, nor do I like to endanger my life or the lives of others. I don't do the job for the adrenaline rush, I do it because I am good at it.

9 times out of 10, we approach the door. Knock. Declare our presence and arrest warrant. If necessary, knock again. If we know he is in there as in-- we just positively identified him walking in and/or can see him through the window (youd be surprised how often that happens), we declare we are about to make entry and do so. Usually I call the police the moment I think I might have to make entry. As in I see the guy through the window or saw him walk in. Not all do this. If necessary, make entry while declaring I have a warrant, with my badge in clear view. That is a "typical" entry, but those are rare. You'd be amazed how many people give up when you just knock on their door and politely show them the warrant and ask them to come with you.

Treat a man like a man and he will act like a man. Treat a man like an animal and he will act like an animal.

Anyone still wants to shoot at me while I am making a lawful arrest? Do it. Only one of us will be walking out and I know who my money is on, as well as who the law is with.


TRL
 
Tellner:

True, for us to make an arrest we must have the proper paperwork (which includes your address being the same as the comaker) and/or you must actually be harboring the fugitive. I have never disputed this.

True, if we violate this we are in the wrong and you can defend yourself. I have not disputed this, either.

True, like police officers, we must also follow the law. I have not disputed this.

False, at least in the state of Indiana, we are issue identification. In addition, we must also posess a legal bench warrant for said individual.

False, if someone breaks into your house that isnt a) a law enforcement officer or b) have an appropriate warrant. These are not always the same. Depending on the state, check with your bondsman. However, to avoid sticky situations, most of us never force entry without notifying you why we are there to begin with. Not all afford this, however. If we arent police AND don't have a warrant, then you'd be right. Again, check with your bondsman as it varies from state to state.

I agree, that is why if we make entry we must have solid proof he is/was in there. Typically this is only gotten around by our arrest having been made. I am not saying "make way for the bounty hunters!". I am not trying to sound like a hard@$$. I am simply explaining the laws as I have personally encountered them.

TRL
 
thumped your chest about how if anybody kicks your door in they are in for a world of hurt.
Well, all I said was that any non-LEOs kicking down my door will be shot, early and often. I think any reasonable person on this forum would do the same.

That's not intended to be an attack on bounty hunters/recovery agents and what they(you) do, but rather a warning to watch what you do in states where about 99% of homes are armed.

This all goes back to the same things that have been discussed here before. I live out in a remote area and all strangers that appear on my property are treated with extreme caution. I might even come out the "back door" and around the corner of the house with a rifle if you look suspicious.

Don't make any foolish moves, ask nice, and if I do have any information about the person you are seeking then I will help you all I can. But you better make sure you are at the right house before getting belligerent. Most people - including deputies - can't even find a specific address out here without asking directions ;)

Edit: sorry ... we cross-posted. Thanks for clarifying your practices, HMMurdock.

But, just a question ... how do you determine whether someone is hiding out and not answering the door, or just simply not home...?
 
Brerrabbit: I'll try to find a case, but I challenge you to find the opposite. Not that it'd do any good, because you'd still disagree...

There have indeed been many instances of bounty hunters getting arrested. This is the same for police officers. When you don't follow the letter of the law, you get it stuck to you.

What state do you live in? Only state I can think of like that is Illinois, in which you cannot own a gun to begin with. Correct me if I'm wrong. And how do you know this? Have you consulted a laywer and/or bondsman? I have.

Castle doctrine applies to home invaders and those making legal arrests do not constitute home invaders any more than police officers doing the same. We have legal right to make an arrest. And why do people keep assuming we just bust in in the middle of night, under the cover of darkness and try to harass people? It doesn't work like that...

Why said my employer would prosecute? He doesn't care. Murder is a federal matter last time I checked...

In most states, if you have our fugitive in our residence, we are making a lawful entry. Despite what you say, the law reads differently. Call a bondsman.

Such hostility. I'm just trying to share my experiences. Why does no one here find proof before the lambast another over laws they obviously know nothing about?

Find a copy of the History Channel's "Suicide Missions: Bounty Hunters". It's very educational. You will find it parrots much of what I have already said.

TRL
 
You are the one claiming the authority to bust in on a mans castle, not me, I am just the bad tempered jerk who will put you in the ground if you try it at my place. You cite the applicable case law.

Again authority of a bounty hunter to forcibly enter the home of a a person neither a fugitive nor the person that signed the bond.

You are a civilian, not anyone empowered by the government for any action. You have the exact same rights as any other civilian breaking down my front door with a fire arm.

You are right, murder is a also a federal offence, but usually tried at the state level. At the state level I would be good to go as it would not be considered murder. At the federal level, as home defense has not been outlawed, I will also be good to go. look up oklahoma hb 2615 sometime.

Remember, the federal government cannot authorize a civilian to do a search that a LEO could not do. The bounty laws as currently written are grossly out of date, and not current with many other laws or interpretations of the constitution.

Call a bondsman to describe his legal authority, that is rich. Why not look up your own state laws on home defense. Gee, I am citing my legal authority to kill you as an unlawful intruder if you ever attempt forcible entry on my domicile. My word carries more weight because there will be a dead body if you ever attempt it. If it is me, I guarentee you will be getting a death penalty. If it is you, I may get a stern talking to from the judge.

As I see it, based on the people that do bounty work, you are just another set of legs, If you get capped, your boss will waste about five minutes before he hires the next guy. Will he try to force prosecution,get real, you think an awful lot of yourself for the job you do.

Why the hostility? think about your job for a minute, look over DMF's posts for a few minutes. You and your trade are part of the blight on the american justice system.
 
HMM

What state do you live in? Only state I can think of like that is Illinois, in which you cannot own a gun to begin with.

The quote from you is 100% wrong. Don't believe me? Ask Jeff White, a mod and IL cop.

Why does no one here find proof before the lambast another over laws they obviously know nothing about?

And the pot calls the kettle black...

Despite what you say, the law reads differently. Call a bondsman.

Oh, so you are a lawyer now? Or do you merely consider bondsmen on par with lawyers regarding laws?

Have you consulted a laywer and/or bondsman?

Maybe, you think you are both?

Here is some free advice from some worthless college kid. Before you open a thread telling people to bring you questions on a subject, know your material.
 
intresting thread on this subject from another section.most posters in this thread also would not allow bounty hunters in without a police officer present .


http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=224145&page=2



would it be wrong to start a thread on the tactics to use on bounty hunters kicking down your door ?

most people on thr would not allow them in,but since they usually work in 4-6 man teams armed and wearing body armour you need a plan to deal with them.
 
Not clear on something here.

My understanding is that a bench warrant allows for the arrest of a person on sight. Nothing more, nothing less.

A search warrant allows for the search and seizure of evidence related to criminal offense, including arresting said criminal.

So, is it true that, with only a bench warrant, my property can be searched? With or without probable cause?

I don't think that is correct, but perhaps I am wrong.

Also, for Murdoch, I don't envy you your line of work. I used to work for a towing company, and did a fair share of repos. I hated it. I was always afraid someone would recognize me and exact revenge for hauling off their car. Never happened, but I am quite pleased I don't do that anymore.

We also did police tows, and I saw enough blood and mangled body parts to last several lifetimes. :(
 
SW 910

Considering most of the weapons I have at the ready, body armor is a non issue.

After the first one falls, I am going to assume they will call the police at the same time I am.

All this tough talk for something that can simply be handled with the presence of a nice freindly LEO to apprehend the jumper.

The bounty hunter I will shoot if he breaks down my door. The LEO, when he presents his warrant, will be treated politely and with respect.
 
HMMurdock, thanks for the clarification. We seem to be in agreement on the important points.
 
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