Bounty Hunters enter your home?

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gossamer

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This question might belong in Legal as much as tactics, but I'll start here and ask the moderators to make that decision as they see fit.

First a little background.

I live in one of Missouri's biggest cities. This week we again had an incident of bounty hunters enter a home that their "bounty" does not occupy, has not occupied or a while. This time , according to the people who lived in the home, they were posing as police officers with police badges and ID'd themselves as police.

The homeowner was on the phone with 911 and refused to let them in until police arrived. They then broke down the door, injuring the man and charged in.

Under Missouri law, the bounty hunter may only make a forcible entry
"only when attempting to apprehend a felon and after informing local law enforcement in the locality where the defendant is to be retrieved;"
Click to expand...

Also in Missouri a few years back we had a few instances where bounty hunters charged into the wrong house, did tremendous damage to the house, and in one case they broke into the wrong home and shot an innocent man.

Assuming you're a law-abiding citizen, aren't hiding anyone who skipped bail etc..

It's not hard to imagine a scenario where someone shows up at my home claiming to be a police officer and isn't and breaks into my house (it just happened this week). If it comes to pass that these guys are actually bounty hunters, armed etc. what the hell do I do?

In the case above the guy did the right thing by calling 911 first.

But as a responsible gun owners, who owns a weapon for self-defense, what do you do once they charge in?

They are first and foremost lying about being police. They are armed, and they are charging into your home in what could easily be a home invasion where BGs are just as possible as bounty hunters.

There are also a lot of cases of home invasions where the BGs were posing as "recovery agents" when they pounded on the door, only to rob the people.

I should say that I probably fear an encounter with bounty hunters than I do criminals because any encounter I have with them is going to be a case of mistaken identity. They are the aggressors. They have a history of killing and hurting innocent people in my community. And I don't trust them not to harm my family in the heat of the moment. In repeated cases here in KC they are really not much more than criminals with a license. There's too much bravado and testosterone flying around in these guys and they make entry into a home they have no business being in.


I guess another question is, what's the ramification of using lethal force to protect myself from these guys who are projecting lethal force at me and my family? To me it meets all the standards of the castle doctrine.

Thanks for any replies.
 
I guess another question is, what's the ramification of using lethal force to protect myself from these guys who are projecting lethal force at me and my family? To me it meets all the standards of the castle doctrine.
Click to expand...

The same ramifications as any other self defense situation. A bail enforcement agent has no legal right to be anywhere but in the domicile of the person they are looking for. There is no law saying they can't be obstructed and that you can't resist.

I would certainly be turning lawyers loose on the company that employed them and any survivors would be in jail on a multitude of charges.
 
Thank goodness the odds on this sort of thing happening are vanishingly small. In any case where anyone wanting entry for any reason is concerned, conversation is the first order of business. If such conversation can be carried on at a distance from the primary residence (wired or wireless intercom for example), then so much the better.

As far as anyone attempting to force entry without being properly vetted through a call to 911, well... that might not be prudent.

lpl
 
I have wondered if perhaps it would be a good idea to have small voice recorder on my bedside table which could be turned on at the start of an incident. In cases such as you describe, it could resolve a he-said, she-said. Of course, a 911 tape might do that too, if they stay on the line.
 
The only problem with a small voice recorder is that it may violate the eavesdropping laws. All the states are somewhat different. Here in Illinois both parties must know and consent to the conversation being taped. Letting 911 record the interaction is a good idea because they have an exemption to the eavesdropping laws.
 
I don't believe there would be any legal problem with a voice recorder as no electronic communication is involved (ie.telephone,etc.) . It would be the same as a business recording/video taping their premises.
 
Bondsman

I work under a bondsman and from time to time we go out and bounty hunting. While this sort of thing happins it gives the rest of us a very bad name. I have personally kicked a few doors down looking for skips I am very uneasy about doing it. I know if some one kicked in my door there will be shots fired! Any one can claim to be the police if I dont see blue and red lights then im firing no questions asked.
 
Bounty hunters (in Colorado atleast to the best of my knowledge). I have never committed a crime and if a bounty hunter came into my house brandishing cuffs, I would be much inclined to chase him out, brandishing whatever I could get my hands on first.

I believe here in Colorado we have 'No order to retreat'
as there is in other states, meaning its legal to shoot first and ask questions later here. No announcing that the intruder will be shot to warn them. So, if a bounty hunter came into my house I would call the police given the first chance that I got, either before or after I exercised my lack of an order to retreat.
-FL
 
Im sorry, if my door gets blown down, 911 first and shooting second, ESPECIALLY if they are ARMED and NO BLUE Lites outside.

MOST people knock and talk to me through the door at a good distance.

The only way that anyone can plow my door is a knock or no knock search warrant enfoced legally with proper identification being shouted by law enforcement in my area and I generally know what thier vehicles look like.

Im glad that there are bounties looking for BG's Im appreciative of what they do.... but please god, dont let one be so stupid as to blow through my door. It's going to get someone hurt bad or dead.
 
There was a case near my home in NC a few years ago where a bounty hunter tried to kick the door in of an old man (looking for his grandson I think).

Gramps see's Mr Bounty Hunter snooping around his trailer with a gun out. Gramps told Mr Bounty Hunter that he had the wrong home, grandson did not live here, never lived here and if he tried to come in - he was a dead man. Mr Bounty Hunter tried to come in anyway and gramps shot him DRT thru the door...

Grand jury refused to indict. :)
Will
 
Quote "/\ old timers get away with everything!"

As some have posted here..
Never pick a fight with an old man ....if he's too old to fight, he'll just kill you.

And I know where it's coming from - well past minimum retirement age myself,
and if you think I'm gonna get into a donnybrook with someone half my age, guess again!;)
 
Bounty Hunters

Bounty Hunters are allowed to apprehend criminals that post bail and don't show up for court.They have a lot of powers to make these apprehensions.However,if any of them came to my house,I would tell them they are at the wrong house or have bad info because I have no arrest record.I would tell them I was calling the Police to come and sort things out and for them to wait.Hopefully they would comply and not break down my door,because once they do that,they are committing a crime and probably putting me in fear of my life.If that occurred,they would be greeted by firepower,because I would have to believe they were just common criminals attempting to use foolery to gain entrance.
 
Thank goodness the odds on this sort of thing happening are vanishingly small.
Click to expand...

The not-really funny thing is, I thought the same thing about four weeks ago when I was researching Missouri's bounty hunter laws when a similar incident happened (neighboring state). Unfortunately, this is the second such incident in my metro area in less than two months. An average of 2 per month in one average-sized US metro area is getting a little too common.

It tells me that either (1) local bounty hunters are getting lax (again) (2) the enforcement of the training requirements is getting lax at the state level (3) more people who questionable professional qualifications are getting into bounty hunting lately (as the economy has been declining). (4) the local news sources are getting a hard-on for bounty hunters and reporting it more.

NONE of these are rationale I'm excited about.
 
Or is it being influenced by shows like "Dog" The Bounty Hunter? Attracting "Wanna-bes?"

Or are there many more people just jumping bail?

No offense to the Professionals...

There was a recent Cops show in North Little Rock that had a Bounty Hunter wanting IN a house. As far as I see it, there was MORE than sufficient time to work out who is who and why. The people inside just was not willing to simply open the door, even after LEO's showed up.
 
BTW is there such thing as a "Bounty Hunter", in a leagl sense?

Do the people who do this have any special status?

If some random person breaks my door down with a gun in his hand, I don't think there's a jurisdiction in the most liberal state in the land that would convict me if I shoot him on the spot.

But is a "bounty hunter" legally just a random person? Or do they have some pseudo-law-enforcement status?
 
The few "dog" episodes i've seen they usually end up talking the people out of the house somehow...lol. haven't seem them use any force as far as entering a residence. Of course its tv..but if dog really acts that way in real life he seems like he has a huge heart and is willing to work with or listen to anyone.
 
I didnt intend to drag "Dog" onto it but I think of Hunters being more of the strong silent types right up there with summons agents who are sent out to stick something into your hand should you open door.
 
There's a lot of parallels between bounty hunters and repo men. Frankly, most are just mercenaries who don't care who they hurt. They're just in it for the money. Granted, not all are like that, but there is a very lot of thuggery that goes on just to make a buck.

Arizona is a Castle Doctrine state, and you merely have to feel threatened to use deadly force. I have a PSL with both soft point and steel core ammo. And a low-recoil Saiga .223. Heaven help an intruder if I get to either of those. The steel core 7.62x54R ammo turns cover into concealment.
 
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