Bounty Hunters enter your home?

[JWarren]

As I figure it in the context that we are discussing it...

A bounty hunter is a private citizen who has-- for whatever justification-- has chosen to

1.) break and enter into my home
2.) caused signifiant property damage
3.) is trespassing
4.) because of his/her desire to protect themselves, IS a threat to me

Considering that I...

1.) Typically am in the back of my house, they would probably make it into my house

2.) ALWAYS have either a 870 loaded with 00 buck, a 1911A1, or an AR-15 next to me

3.) Live in a house that you can only enter through two doors and those are strudy and alarmed.

4.) Live in a house where it takes significant movement through the house around corners to get from the doors to the living areas

5.) The rear door requires you to get through TWO doors (one steel and one solid cypress)

6.) Live in a Castle Doctrine state that also has provisions for Defense of Property


... This would NOT go well for said Bounty Hunters.



You want to come into my house? You better get a damned job as a REAL LEO and then get a warrant.

Otherwise, you are a criminal, a threat, and likely a dead man. I live in the woods deep in my private land. We don't have people accidently coming to my house. You can't get to my house without significant effort.

EVERYONE that comes here puts me in "Condition Orange" until I know otherwise. Hell, my father calls me on the cell phone before he turns in the driveway.



EDIT:


BTW... I just got this of the web. May be worth the discussion...


http://www.bailfish.com/Investigators/Mississippi.html

In the United States of America bounty hunters have nearly limitless authority in their duties with regard to apprehending a fugitive bond jumper. Unlike a police officer, a bounty hunter can enter the fugitive's private domain without a warrant (even on the “Sabbath Day”). Bounty hunters are also sometimes known as Bail Enforcement Agents or Fugitive Recovery Agents many of these professionals are also licensed private investigators with extensive experience in skip tracing, back ground checks and law enforcement surveillance techniques. Please contact one of these qualified Private Investigators listed on this site for more information.

mcdonl wrote:

It is my understanding and belief that you do not brandish your weapon unless you intend to use it

As I see it, I am free to "brandish" anything I want inside my own home.



-- John

 

[Bubba613]

I'd agree with the "that is a home invasion" comment and treat it appropriately. A bounty hunter is free to break in anywhere he wants,but does so taking full risk and responsibility for it. If he's wrong, he will suffer financial damage if not physical damage up to and including death.

 

[JWarren]

This is an interesting read:

Bounty hunters go to the wrong house...


http://articles.latimes.com/1997/sep/03/news/mn-28336


-- John

 

[Javelin]

Anyone enters my home by using anger/force/agression is going to make the front page of the papers. Obviously I would too. Best to just knock on the door.

 

[Hungry Seagull]

Thank you everyone for a great thread. Ive have enjoyed it and adjusted a few corroded ways of thinking and learned a thing or two.

Hooray.

 

[mcdonl]

It was a good thread seagull... I just think at times people lost track of the site that it was bounty hunters (Plural....)

I think that changes things. Unless you are in the movies, you had better combine moving while shooting, cover/concealment and very fast reaction time before engageing multiple armed men. This is where I feel as though I do not have the skills.

By the time you are taking your first shot, without a doubt you will have rounds coming at you. Then what?

Perhaps if you had a concealed weapon you would be better off setting them up for an ambush. If you know you will be out gunned at the beginning, maybe seperate them, etc...

I would like to hear what Jeff or others may say about this. It is stuck in my head now.

Leroy

 

[Duke of Doubt]

Maine does not allow bounty hunting. We don't even have bail bondsmen. Every county has a bail commissioner. Skip court, and a bench warrant issues, typically at the end of the day. Get pulled over for speeding or something, and you get a free trip downtown. I don't know why this doesn't work elsewhere. I've lived in states which allowed bounty hunting, and it was crazy. Burglars did home invasions posing as bail agents, and people got killed. Some real bail agents did home invasions as a side business. I don't know why other states put up with that stuff. But what I REALLY don't understand is why the criminals put up with it. At least in those states where I lived which permitted it, the bail agent was NOT a law enforcement officer. Legally, the accused criminal could have resisted, using whatever level of force was necessary to effect his escape. Yet most submitted. Very strange.

 

[Arbor]

Most people seem to be missing the fact that the "bail enforcers" were identifying themselves as police officers. You can't just shoot when they come through the door, even if you were able to survive such an encounter. If the WERE real police officers, which is probably more likely, you would be in a world of sh*t if you shot them dead after they identified themselves. Unless you can tell without a doubt they aren't cops, calling 911 is probably the only good option, and a bad one at that.

 

[Hungry Seagull]

I dont kid myself about multi-aggressors. That is where double 00 will come in. I dont expect to survive such a encounter either. Ive played numberous laser tag type games as a young adult and I would get two but tagged by the third.

One memorable game was when I was going up against two by myself. Thier tatics were superb and thier teamwork like of one mind. During the game I began to feel hunted and almost out of options feeling as if Im fighting two trained Soldiers or Lawmen. I believe the score was even stevens.

Later they told me that they were State Troopers trying something new. Im glad I encountered them in a friendly red team-green team setting instead of anywhere outside "In the real world" And that was when I was young and limber.

Ignore me while I sprout stories of long forgotten days.

 

[Rockwell1]

This is an interesting read:

Bounty hunters go to the wrong house...

I think this post answers a question that I've seen here a time or two before about what would happen if you shot back during a "no knock" raid

 

[Duke of Doubt]

Those sort of scenarios are why I like my building so much. It would be really hard, basically impossible, to stage a "no-knock" raid or a surprise home invasion. I mean, they could DO it, they could get in, but it would be REALLY noisy and delayed, with multiple doors to force, narrow stairwells and passages to navigate, all while being observed and recorded, and that's before they even get into my particular units. Plenty of time to figure out what's going on, retreat to a strongpoint, arm myself, call emergency assistance, and prepare to defend myself. I would feel very uncomfortable living in a home that could be rushed.

 

[SHusky57]

This is slightly off topic but related to the thread.

Are all LEO's procedurally required to identify themselves before entering a premises? I remember someone telling me about a case somewhere - sorry for not having specifics - where LEO's conducted a "no-knock, unannounced entry" to his premises in the middle of the night, the homeowner thought he was being robbed and ended up killing an LEO.

After watching Manhunters which is a documentary series following US Marshalls I've been kind of curious about this. They never show a warrant, or even a badge (imagine coming to an apartment door with only a peep-hole), they just knocked and say "it's the police, open up." There have been times where they actually use strong-arm tactics and the fugitive is not there, or they have misidentified someone as the fugitive. Is there any legal recourse if federal LEOs cause "pain and suffering" because they kicked down your door thinking you were a fugitive when you were NOT.

DukeofDoubt, anyone out there with legal experience know?

 

[Marlin 45 carbine]

without blue/red lights flashing likely there will be a 12ga Mag roaring.

 

[mcdonl]

Sorry to get of track....

Duke, at our CCW class (Scarborough Maine) there was about 3 hours with a lawyer. It was very informative. Confusing laws...

Leroy

 

[roscoe]

About 10 years ago, in Phoenix, bounty hunters kicked in a door and the homeowner resisted with a handguin. They had armor and ARs, and he and his girlfriend ended up dead.

Turns out they thought he was a drug dealer and were basically looking to score money and drugs, and were using an expired warrant. Because one was shot by the homeowner and had to get to a hospital, they were all caught and convicted of murder.

 

[Hungry Seagull]

SHusky57

LEO's in my town, county and STATE in addition to FEDERAL LEO's (Whew... ive been a baaaad boy)

they are required to show up with warrant in hand and announce loudly multipule times and identify themselves VERY clearly.

As soon as the shouting starts I will take one look on my land. I expect to see either...

A black helicopter
Many LEO's Marked cars with lights going or not.
Other certain cars with lights on.

In my area warrants and no knocks start at 6 AM or so in the morning when most BG's or targets of these are expected to be asleep. All other hours is based on a prior cause... like a domestic that was upgraded to a hostage situation for example.

 

[punkndisorderly]

No-knock warrants really distrub me. That's probably my greatest fear since, if someone breaks in and is armed, I'm going for the gun. At that point it will be me vs professionals much better trained and armed than I am. I remember a while back an elderly woman was gunned down during a no-knock on the wrong house.

 

[MAKster]

The authority of bounty hunters to enter the fugitive's private property without a warrant to rearrest them is derived from the 1872 U.S. Supreme Court case, Taylor v. Taintor. If you use a bail bondsman you are basically signing away all your rights.

 

[DanielW]

That's a situation i hope I never have to encounter. I may have equipment that's just as good as theirs and the advantage of being familiar with my own home, however they will have better training and the advantage of numbers.

 

[Hungry Seagull]

MAKster, I might as well take my bedroll, provisions and go live with the BailBondsman if I ever see something like that.

Fortunately I try to live a lawful life and out of need for these kinds of people.

 

[SciFiJim]

By the time you are taking your first shot, without a doubt you will have rounds coming at you. Then what?
Mcdonl,
Like you I am not trained in urban combat. At times like that; and I pray to God it never happens; then it is my duty, honor, and privilege to die trying to protect my family.

John 15:13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

 

[mcdonl]

Well, this has inspired me to train more for this type of stuff. I live in a low risk area, but it is fun none-the-less.

And, as duke of doubt said, we have no bounty hunters in Maine, and I know the deputies that service this area, so it would have to be feds busting down the wrong door, or very inspired hill-billies posing as LEO's.

Leroy

 

[cdet69]

like the old saying goes when in doubt shoot it out.

 

[Javelin]

Multi-aggressors require extreme firepower and training.

Enter the 20-round 11" Tromix Saiga-12 gauge.

Or a whole lot of quiet.

 

[SciFiJim]

Javelin,
Dooood, that's awesome. Just keep shooting until you can use the glow from the hot barrel as a flashlight.