Auction that bothered me

[bergmen]

Some folks put principal ahead of money.

Go ahead and spout all the little sound bites about eating principal, but I can think of a number of men who could have taken the easy way out, but chose to do what they felt was right. Had it not been for those men, and many others, we probably would not be discussing RKBA...there wouldn't be any right.

They can put principal ahead of money all they want to. What they are doing is looking me in the face and giving me the finger. I am not the enemy or the source of their problem so they can have the finger right back.

The state of California wins if those that choose not to do business here because of the gun laws decide to forget us. That is their goal and the Kel-Tec types are sucking right up to it. California government just checks one in the plus column for every firearms related business that decides not to cater to customers here.

The laws can be understood and dealt with by those that care. Dozens of suppliers do from ammo to magazines to every other possible accessory that us gun owners need. There is a short list of banned items, an eighth grader could decipher it easily.

I just received a 58 pound package of M1A ammo from out of state. Eezee peezee, no problem. Also a large box full of 10 round M1A magazines - piece-o-cake. These from businesses who honor our patronage. A CMP Garand is on it's way soon to be on my doorstep, CMP has no problem doing business with us. Neither does Cabelas, Midway, Berry's Bullets, Hodgden powders, etc, etc. the list goes on and on.

These are my opinions only but I can tell you for certain I'm not the only one who feels this way.

Dan

 

[MikeNice]

The state of California wins if those that choose not to do business here because of the gun laws decide to forget us.

+10

 

[cacoltguy]

It's the sellers property and he is free to sell (or not sell) to whomever he chooses. I don't get the philosophy however. Why would you not sell items to people of your own kind living here and how is doing so a sign of support for the anti-gun politicians of CA? I say to defeat the system you need to flood the state with as many legally owned guns and legal gun owners as possible. When you refuse to sell firearms or firearm accessories to CA, you are only doing what Brown, Pelosi and the rest of the regime want you to do. Furthermore, when I buy online from an out of state buyer I don't give these fools my money in the form of sales tax which they will promptly donate to illegal immigrants or other freeloaders.

As far as telling those of us that live here to move, get real. I don't like the politics of this state but I relocated here because that is what my job dictated. With 10% unemployment and only the fast food industry hiring, I'm not about to leave a secure well paying job and start collecting unemployment to make a political statement about gun rights. I will continue to utilize my vote to speak for my feelings and encourage others to do the same.

 

[Murphy4570]

A CMP Garand is on it's way soon to be on my doorstep, CMP has no problem doing business with us.

They're a little special. There's a reason why the CMP can ship via mail a rifle with ammo straight to your doorstep, where all other firearms sellers must ship to an FFL to transfer it to you.

 

[Norrick]

Yes lets just relocate our families jobs and homes so that we don't have to deal with out of state salesman who make it a point to punish the pro gunners. Makes GREAT sense.

Anyone who thinks california is 'California' doesn't deserve our cash to begin with. I'll happily give it to the entrepeneurs who realize it is an untapped market.

Ignore the ads that preach, if they make no mention then just ask politely. Some just dont sell to here because of the hassle, not any personal ideology. Probably not a wise move to rant on here either since there is very little sympathy towards Californians. Have you been to calguns website?

 

[ErikO]

Oh by the way, the 'California' gun laws were started when some non-whites came to the state offices with their rifles and shotguns and scared Gov. Reagan into starting the draconian laws there.

Just saying.

 

[USAF_Vet]

Not selling to California only helps enforce their anti-gun angenda. Less guns in the state is a win to them. Thet Kel-Tec refuses to do business in california is a world class mistake. If I were them, I'd stick it to the man and sell guns for less in California than I do elsewhere. Increase supply and demand, lower prices of guns and related items, and really tick off Big Brother.

Move? Easy to sit there and say that. In reality, not so easy. If no one has noticed, unemployment is high, home sales are low and the economy is grinding to a stand still. Yeah, I can see where one can quit a job, sell a house, uproot their family and start over completely all over a bunch of restrictive gun laws. Sure.

I was stationed in California for three years. I hated everything about it, but what bothered me the least out of all the nonsense were the gun laws.

The leftist regime is so entrenched in that state, the coast is going to have to break off and drift into the Pacific, get flooded by a massive tsunami, or get shoved under Nevada before real, positive, pro 2A changes can be made. I feel sorry for the pro 2A citizens of California. Keep on keepin' on.

 

[Mike1234567]

They can put principal ahead of money all they want to. What they are doing is looking me in the face and giving me the finger. I am not the enemy or the source of their problem so they can have the finger right back.

The state of California wins if those that choose not to do business here because of the gun laws decide to forget us. That is their goal and the Kel-Tec types are sucking right up to it. California government just checks one in the plus column for every firearms related business that decides not to cater to customers here.

The laws can be understood and dealt with by those that care. Dozens of suppliers do from ammo to magazines to every other possible accessory that us gun owners need. There is a short list of banned items, an eighth grader could decipher it easily.

I just received a 58 pound package of M1A ammo from out of state. Eezee peezee, no problem. Also a large box full of 10 round M1A magazines - piece-o-cake. These from businesses who honor our patronage. A CMP Garand is on it's way soon to be on my doorstep, CMP has no problem doing business with us. Neither does Cabelas, Midway, Berry's Bullets, Hodgden powders, etc, etc. the list goes on and on.

These are my opinions only but I can tell you for certain I'm not the only one who feels this way.

Dan

I feel for you, Dan. But, looking at your arguement from the flip-side, maybe Californians will become so incredibly ticked off that they'll begin to fight hard for their 2A rights. Sometimes it's a matter of that... one... last... unfriendly... shove... to start a real brawl.

 

[Cal-gun Fan]

We DO fight hard, mike! But honestly, the state has bigger problems than gun rights right now.

 

[bergmen]

I feel for you, Dan. But, looking at your arguement from the flip-side, maybe Californians will become so incredibly ticked off that they'll begin to fight hard for their 2A rights. Sometimes it's a matter of that... one... last... unfriendly... shove... to start a real brawl.

Not supporting our 2A rights weakens us. This is NOT to say that we need to be armed to resist, that is not my point at all.

I do have to say that I have understanding for the smaller operations and individual sellers who consider it way too much of a hassle to sell anything firearms related to Californians. But we can help. Many times the "barriers" are not really preventative as much as a few layers of red tape. Most of us don't want to bend or break the law to make a point and often we can be worked with. When I look at GunBrokers.com I see many, many blanket statements indicating "no sales to California" for things like .22 rifles. I would encourage those who make this statement to reconsider. I know it is easier just to scratch us off your list but as I indicated earlier, we are on your side.

I have been a shooter and hunter here for more than 50 years. Lifetime member of the California Rifle and Pistol Association. BTW, CRPA is fighting the gun laws in Cal tooth and nail. They are bringing in the big guns (NRA/ILA) to file serious lawsuits in the wake of Heller - and they are winning in several key areas. The tide is beginning to turn and the various city, county and state administrations know this and even though some are putting up a fight (gotta keep those blue constituents) they are not gaining ground, they are losing it.

I have taken many people (some who have never actually SEEN a firearm up close) to the range to shoot after about a 2 hour safety course at my house. All have enjoyed it, the majority have visited gun shops and many are new owners (and members of the local gun club). I continue to do this as the opportunities present themselves. The only people I trained and shot with who couldn't consider buying handguns were my good friends from Sweden. I couldn't do anything about that but that didn't keep the lot of them from drooling all over the counter glass at every gun shop between our little farm and SFO.

Oh, and one other thing. California may be a stinking cesspool politically but it still is one of the most fantastic places on earth to live for all of the reasons that most already know about. This is MY state and this where I will breath my last breath.

Dan

 

[Mike1234567]

We need a sticky with state laws/regs and current links (updated regularly) for owning, buying, and selling firearms. No, I can't do it because I'm no longer able to.

 

[Tallinar]

Could be the seller doesn't want to deal with the hassle of navigating CA's seemingly incomprehensible guns laws so he simply refuses to deal w/ CA at all.

Call me heartless or narrow-minded, but this is my stance when I sell guns online.

I feel bad for the gun owners in California - really, I do. I would not think for a moment to fault the individuals who had nothing to do with the law. And as others have pointed out, those of us who say "Just move to another state" really don't realize how huge of a deal that is. But frankly, I don't believe that I - an Iowa resident - should have to feel an obligation to become a scholar on California's state laws so that I can ship a gun to you without fear of repurcussion or a botched transaction. Likewise, I don't believe you should have to feel the same way if you want to ship something to my state.

I'm confused by CA gun laws - what little I know about them. I'm sure with a bit of deliberate research I could figure it out. But honestly I get so resentful of the fact that I need to figure it out that I don't care to. I'm a private citizen and a family man. When I sell guns, it's typically because I need cash at the time to make ends meet. I'm going to sell my gun where I can have the confidence of a smooth transaction without fear of unnecessary hassle. Good, bad, or indifferent, that's just kinda the way it is.

Hopefully things turn around soon for my brothers in California.

 

[bergmen]

Call me heartless or narrow-minded, but this is my stance when I sell guns online.

I feel bad for the gun owners in California - really, I do. I would not think for a moment to fault the individuals who had nothing to do with the law. And as others have pointed out, those of us who say "Just move to another state" really don't realize how huge of a deal that is. But frankly, I don't believe that I - an Iowa resident - should have to feel an obligation to become a scholar on California's state laws so that I can ship a gun to you without fear of repurcussion or a botched transaction. Likewise, I don't believe you should have to feel the same way if you want to ship something to my state.

I'm confused by CA gun laws - what little I know about them. I'm sure with a bit of deliberate research I could figure it out. But honestly I get so resentful of the fact that I need to figure it out that I don't care to. I'm a private citizen and a family man. When I sell guns, it's typically because I need cash at the time to make ends meet. I'm going to sell my gun where I can have the confidence of a smooth transaction without fear of unnecessary hassle. Good, bad, or indifferent, that's just kinda the way it is.

Hopefully things turn around soon for my brothers in California.

No, I understand completely and have no quarrel with your position. Handgun laws here are a mess, even LEO's and county DA's don't understand them.

Long arms are a different story. Outside of the evil assault weapons charade, it is just a matter of transfer to an FFL.

We have our dukes up and we're swinging. The bar stools are going to get thrown through the front window pretty soon and it will develop into a knock-down drag-out brawl. They're backing up more than we are and I'm grabbing for my can of spinach.

Dan

 

[Tallinar]

They're backing up more than we are and I'm grabbing for my can of spinach.

Glad to hear it. I admire your resolve. Let me know if you need me to ship you some extra spinach! Hopefully I can ship it legally.

 

[KodiakBeer]

Let me know if you need me to ship you some extra spinach! Hopefully I can ship it legally.

Be careful! At each crossing point into California there is an agricultural product inspection station that must be passed. There is a maze of regulations detailing which fruits, vegetables and plants may enter the state from which areas and what inspection hoops they must have already jumped through before entering California. Ridiculous, but true!

It is this regulatory maze on every product that makes people hesitant to do business in California. It's not just guns...

 

[bergmen]

Glad to hear it. I admire your resolve. Let me know if you need me to ship you some extra spinach! Hopefully I can ship it legally.

Canned food is okay as long as it doesn't have a pistol grip welded onto it.

Dan

 

[Mike1234567]

Canned food is okay as long as it doesn't have a pistol grip welded onto it.

Dan

No, no, no... it's the high capacity cans that are the problem. Ten ounces or LESS!!

 

[evan price]

IMHO every time California makes some stupid law the companies that are affected should turn their backs on that state like Ronnie Barrett did. Want fitted sheets required in hotels? Presto, no hotels working in San Fran. Want to deny the right to own a gun without microstamping? Poof, nobody sells guns or ammo including to LEOs. Want to require extra-special-clean cars? Poof, no cars in Cali including LEOs and EMS.

Let them secede and see how much better the otehr 49 states are.

 

[CoRoMo]

Our laws are not our fault...

I can't agree. Imagine reading those six words on a bumper sticker. I certainly don't fault you with the laws that have been enacted there. But using the collective terms 'we' and 'us', I have to say that only we are at fault for the infringements that we have allowed. There are a number of anti-gun laws here in Colorado. As much as I would want to say that they are due to the influx of ex-Californians who are moving here to escape that state, only to continue voting the way they always did and turn this state into that one, I would also say that those of us who were here first have allowed these laws to pass. We are all at fault here; some certainly bear more of the blame than others. I probably have not done enough to prevent current laws here, and for that, I'm at fault.

...the state has bigger problems than gun rights right now.

I think this is how California got to where it is today. There have always been "more important" issues to deal with at every moment throughout the last couple generations. So those issues were dealt with and RKBA suffered greatly. Until raw liberty is placed at the top of the 'to do' list, shouldn't we expect more of the same? I know for many Californians, there is nothing higher in priority than RKBA. I feel for them.

 

[Cal-gun Fan]

IMHO every time California makes some stupid law the companies that are affected should turn their backs on that state like Ronnie Barrett did. Want fitted sheets required in hotels? Presto, no hotels working in San Fran. Want to deny the right to own a gun without microstamping? Poof, nobody sells guns or ammo including to LEOs. Want to require extra-special-clean cars? Poof, no cars in Cali including LEOs and EMS.

Let them secede and see how much better the otehr 49 states are.

Thats awful logic. Thats punishing the victim for getting robbed.

 

[KodiakBeer]

Thats awful logic. Thats punishing the victim for getting robbed.

No, it's more akin to volunteering to be the victim. California has onerous requirements for gun manufacturers, including "drop tests" and so forth where a manufacture must essentially donate numerous examples of their product to some agency and then pay for the testing. They can't even get the products back to sell on the used market after the testing. The guns are destroyed after testing. That's why so many guns commonly available elsewhere are not sold in California.

A similar dance exists for people trying to sell accessories. What little guy can possibly be expected to wend their way through this maze, especially when failure may bring criminal prosecution?

You guys need to clean up your own house, but I don't see that happening since people like you are heavily outnumbered.

 

[CoRoMo]

Thats punishing the victim for getting robbed.

Certainly you would agree that many robbery victims don't do enough to prevent becoming a victim. Some robbery victims put themselves in the wrong situation and open themselves up to the unfair treatment. Sometimes they bear a little responsibility for the way things turned out. They are not entirely to blame, but in a few instances, they could have done more to avoid the situation.

 

[Cal-gun Fan]

I certainly wouldn't agree that robberies are the fault of victims at all, not even a little. Well, perhaps in the case of a drug rip or something. But someone filling up his car at the gas station, or from a few years ago in my city, a man robbed and shot in a parking garage on a date. Even yesterday, a man robbed in a grocery store parking lot and shot in front of his 6 year old son. I don't think you can argue that "many robbery victims don't do enough to prevent themselves from becoming victims".

California gun owners fight very hard for their rights, much harder than people in any other state I would bet. However, we are the proverbial internal Afghanistan for the US. No matter how hard we fight, the place is not ready for change.

 

[CoRoMo]

I certainly wouldn't agree that robberies are the fault of victims at all, not even a little. Well, perhaps...

Yes perhaps... of course.

I don't think you can argue that "many robbery victims don't do enough to prevent themselves from becoming victims".

Oh I certainly can and will. This of course is not the topic of your thread, but it is your thread. Discuss whatever you want. Here are a few facts: Many robbery victims don't carry a firearm. Many robbery victims don't avoid the worst parts of their own town. Many robbery victims continue in a lifestyle that carries too much risk of being a victim of crime. Many robbery victims don't maintain an optimum level of situational awareness. Many robbery victims don't consider the probability of being robbed. Many robbery victims never put thought toward a plan in the event that they get robbed. Many robbery victims never thought it would happen to them.

They didn't do enough to prevent themselves from becoming a victim. Read through some of the threads in S&T that contain the word 'interview' in the title. Many robbery victims never knew they were being 'interviewed' until it was too late.

California gun owners fight very hard for their rights...

Not all of them. I have to believe that some aren't overly concerned about what is going on. Other social issues take up the majority of their time. Ever heard the term 'fudd'? While many California gun owners ARE fighting very hard for their rights and everyone else's rights, not all of them are so motivated.

...much harder than people in any other state...

Citation please. Just kidding, I know that there's no way to back that up. But you mentioned earlier that you are hoping to leave California some day. How is that going to help the cause?

Look, we're not on the opposite sides of this issue. I'm having a little fun with you because you keep making broad sweeping statements that are not completely accurate. I know gun a lot of owners who are more than willing to put up with ever encroaching infringements as long as their shotgun is still legal to own. That's the problem here and that's what went wrong there. I want your state to be as free as Arizona, but there are too many people there that refuse to do anything about it. A lot of them are in fact gun owners too. It's a difficult battle to fight. All the best to you though.

 

[EddieNFL]

What they are doing is looking me in the face and giving me the finger.

File a hurt feelings report. Life ain't fair.