Auction that bothered me

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Hey, I live in Alaska and the stupid HazMat laws make it almost impossible to ship live ammo up here. So, please pick up a couple thousand rounds of milsurp .762 NATO for me and stick it in a UPS box and ship it up to me. After all, I'm a "victim" and you should be willing to risk fines and imprisonment to help a brother out.

Cal-gun? Cal-gun? Did we lose our connection? Hello...?
 
Yes perhaps... of course. :rolleyes:
Wanna post the FULL sentence? I said:
Well, perhaps in the case of a drug rip or something.

Not all of them. I have to believe that some aren't overly concerned about what is going on. Other social issues take up the majority of their time. Ever heard the term 'fudd'? While many California gun owners ARE fighting very hard for their rights and everyone else's rights, not all of them are so motivated.

Citation please. Just kidding, I know that there's no way to back that up. But you mentioned earlier that you are hoping to leave California some day. How is that going to help the cause?

Look, we're not on the opposite sides of this issue. I'm having a little fun with you because you keep making broad sweeping statements that are not completely accurate. I know gun a lot of owners who are more than willing to put up with ever encroaching infringements as long as their shotgun is still legal to own. That's the problem here and that's what went wrong there. I want your state to be as free as Arizona, but there are too many people there that refuse to do anything about it. A lot of them are in fact gun owners too. It's a difficult battle to fight. All the best to you though.

California gun owners have to try harder to get their rights. Someone in Nevada, Texas, Georgia, Virginia, etc can just take hi-cap magazines and NFA stuff for granted. My leaving California doesn't necessarily have to do with gun rights or any type of useless activism, there are just other places I want to live.
The problem is that there just isn't that much that can be done about it right now. California isn't ready for change and it is no fault of ours, but the fault of a a sedentary anti-gun sentiment in our state government.
 
Hey, I live in Alaska and the stupid HazMat laws make it almost impossible to ship live ammo up here. So, please pick up a couple thousand rounds of milsurp .762 NATO for me and stick it in a UPS box and ship it up to me. After all, I'm a "victim" and you should be willing to risk fines and imprisonment to help a brother out.

Cal-gun? Cal-gun? Did we lose our connection? Hello...?

That sucks Kodiak, sorry about that! I wish people would ship ammunition to Alaska. Wasn't aware that it was that hard to order it, but then again I would imagine shipping costs would be terribly high as well.
 
Cal-gun Fan said:
California isn't ready for change and it is no fault of ours, but the fault of a sedentary anti-gun sentiment in our state government.

:confused: You guys don't vote for your state government officials?
 
Not to worry, I'll reimburse you fully for the shipping costs. When can I expect the ammo?
If I were to do so I would also need the money for the ammunition up front. I would be fully willing to do this, but I am 15, and my mother would frown upon it.

Hit me up in 3 more years :)

@Bojangles: Cali is a VERY liberal state. We can vote, but we aren't the majority.
 
I know, I was just being a bit facetious. I was stationed at Camp Pendleton for a few years and really enjoyed my time there. I would not move back there as a civilian though because of the very reason you stated. I understand your frustration but I see the other side's point of view as well. Good luck finding the scope you want.
 
:confused: You guys don't vote for your state government officials?

We vote, we join organizations that fight for sane California gun laws (CRPA Life Member), we contribute to said efforts, we tell friends and take non-shooters to the range, we promote shooting activities, contact fish and game to make sure hunting laws are not watered down, assist the County Sheriff in getting our National Forest lands safe for hunting, join local gun clubs that are politically active in local and state firearms affairs, obtain CCW licenses, join and contribute to forums such as these, buy guns and ammo from those that choose to allow us to patronize their businesses (resident or out of state), bring our sons and daughters (and their friends) into the shooting fraternity and empower them to be active (two sons and one daughter), become NRA Life member, write letters to local newspapers and club newsletters, Join IDPA, explain firearms ownership and safety to liberals who will listen, stock up on ammo and reloading supplies as a regular activity, the list can go on and on indefinitely.

Voting in this state (especially by those of us who are victims of the lefty juggernaut) is about as effective as hurling ping pong balls at a three foot thick, twelve foot high brick fortress and expecting to knock it down.

You got any other constructive suggestions?

Dan
 
I appreciate that Bergmen, I try to be informed about firearm laws and the opposite points of view from anti's. I'm not nearly as knowledgeable as I would like to be, but the High Road is a great place to debate and learn.

You live in Ukiah-ever go up to Pillsbury?
 
I appreciate that Bergmen, I try to be informed about firearm laws and the opposite points of view from anti's. I'm not nearly as knowledgeable as I would like to be, but the High Road is a great place to debate and learn.

You live in Ukiah-ever go up to Pillsbury?

Oh yeah, that is a favorite place for my two boys (22 & 23 y.o.). It is a great place to have fun with guns, lots and lots of shooting up there.

I belong to the Ukiah Gun Club that has a fine facility just northeast of town. My youngest son is receiving his CMP Garand tomorrow morning at 10:30 when FedEx comes a knockin'. We are going to go sight it in tomorrow the instant he gets off work. I'll bring my M1A so we can have a little fun.

Sorry to go O.T.

Dan
 
Oh yeah, that is a favorite place for my two boys (22 & 23 y.o.). It is a great place to have fun with guns, lots and lots of shooting up there.

I belong to the Ukiah Gun Club that has a fine facility just northeast of town. My youngest son is receiving his CMP Garand tomorrow morning at 10:30 when FedEx comes a knockin'. We are going to go sight it in tomorrow the instant he gets off work. I'll bring my M1A so we can have a little fun.

Sorry to go O.T.

Dan

NP, Ill PM you.
 
I detest this logic. I was born in California. In the future I hope to leave, but as of now I am in High School and thus leaving is impossible. Our laws are not our fault and we DO try to change them. The problem is, California is not ready for change. We accept this and throw the bullet buttons and magazine locks on our guns to make them legal etc.

Detest what you like. As I said earlier, I spent 20 years in CA--10 in the Bay area and 10 in the LA area.

When they made my AR an orphan with one stroke of a pen in '90 (register it with the state or become a felon overnight) I sent it to live in AL, where it stayed until I made it to Texas in '04.

And yes, I moved. I started applying for jobs within my company in places other than CA, and eventually my wish was granted. I was transferred to IL in 2001. It wasn't much of an improvement gun-law wise, but I'll tell you one thing:

I met more gun owners and 2A supporters in three years in the anti-2A Chicago area than I met in 20 years in CA.

I never met a Californian who fought for his rights, or who cared very much for the rights of others. I met many who wanted to keep their shotgun or Rem 700 and couldn't care less about someone else's right to own an AR or a handgun. FUDDs describes it perfectly.

I had to stay in IL for three years but actually enjoyed it. In spite of their corrupt politicians and ludicrous laws, the people of IL had a far better grasp of the 2A.

In 2004 I finally made it to Texas.

Yes, it was 90* when I woke up this morning, and it's been 100*+ 60 days this summer so far, including today and likely tomorrow. We don't have beaches or mountains. But we have freedom, and we value it and work to expand it.

After seven years, I still meet another shooter and 2A supporter about once a week. And I take new shooters to the range about once a month--people who have never fired a handgun but are open minded enough to give it a try.

We have elected idiots too. Plenty of them, as a matter of fact. They are supported by people who are ill-informed, or gullible, or who have come here from Blue states, and are trying to turn their new state into a mirror image of their old one. (Google "Californicate Oregon", Wyoming, Colorado, etc...)

Our laws are getting better because of the relentless efforts of 2A supporters here. Our Legislature only meets every two years, which is a mixed blessing. We get "Parking Lot" protection 1 September. We will keep working for Campus Carry and Open Carry.
 
IMHO every time California makes some stupid law the companies that are affected should turn their backs on that state like Ronnie Barrett did. Want fitted sheets required in hotels? Presto, no hotels working in San Fran. Want to deny the right to own a gun without microstamping? Poof, nobody sells guns or ammo including to LEOs. Want to require extra-special-clean cars? Poof, no cars in Cali including LEOs and EMS.

Let them secede and see how much better the otehr 49 states are.

Barrett turned his back on the LAPD for supporting the 50 BMG rifle ban in California after they requested service for their own 50 BMG rifle. I supported his cause then and do so today to expose the utter hypocrisy of the poilitical position of some LEO departments.

Collusion (which is what this position would require) NEVER works, it only provides opportunities for those who will do an end-around to make a sale. In the meantime, it is US who will suffer, not the state. They could not give less of a damn, believe me.

With an economy that ranks about 6th or 7th in the world, all countries counted, it would be suicide to ignore us as a consumer force. If anyone sticks their nose up and decides not to do business with us, there are boat loads of companies and distributors that will step right in and take their place.

No, we NEED YOUR SUPPORT, your continued pressure against the norm by navigating around the maze and HELPING US OUT.

Freedoms are not granted, they are recognized and keeping them requires constant vigilance and tough effort against the opposition. We cannot do this if we are abandoned. The 2A in this country will die if people just walk away from intransigence by the authorities. They win, we lose.

You have to biff it out. That is how we got here, not by people in the late 1700's deciding to boycott the British and hope they would get the message.

Dan
 
You guys don't vote for your state government officials?

Of course we do. Did you vote in the last presidential election? Do you get my point here? Gun owners in California are no more responsible for the anti-gun laws of CA than people like you are for the current administration in the White House. (Assuming you're opposed to the current policies of this administration) I vote, I support gun rights and I live in California.

Like I said earlier, I fully support any sellers right to do (or not do) business with whoever he pleases. But refusing sale to CA residents based strictly on a bizarre philosophical belief that you are "sticking it to the communist left wing anti gun regime" is ridiculous. All you are doing is withdrawing support for people of your own kind who live in enemy territory and try to keep the U.S. Constitution alive in a place where it is on life support.
 
You say its not your fault.

Have you worked to organize a valid opposition to your rulers?---Have you made plans to move?
My thoughts exactly.

By living in a certain state, you're supporting the people elected to represent you, especially if you're not actively involved in politics. Today's Americans who refuse to become actively involved in politics are taking a knee to their elected officials and saying:

"Rule over me! I lack the passion and interest to do my duty as an American, and don't care to ensure that this democracy functions as it was intended to."

That's really all there is to it. You can claim to be a voting supporter of pro-gun legislation and conservative views, but if you think voting is good enough... take a look around. Obviously it's not good enough. What else can you do about it? Go ask a member of congress - they weren't born into positions of power. They were born naked, bloody, crying, and helpless, just like everyone else. This isn't 1102 England, it's 2011 America. The people who make the decisions are the people who cared enough to make their voices heard.
 
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By living in a certain state, you're supporting the people elected to represent you

So Bobson, by living in the United States I can only assume, by your logic, you are a supporter of the current left-wing administration. Baffling. I'm glad you are fortunate enough to be living (and I assume employed) in a pro-gun state. I still cannot comprehend the how the idea of trying to relocating gun owners and guns from California does anything to improve gun ownership conditions here in CA or the U.S. as a whole.
 
It does nothing to improve conditions for people in California. I readily agree. The goal isn't to make things better for the ignorant masses, the goal is to make things better for my family. I love California. I was born there, I love the weather and scenery. But I'll never live there, because I can't stand the average political opinion, and realize that one man among a mass can't change anything.

And yes, as an American citizen who's taxes pay our President's salary, I am a supporter, whether I voted for him or not.
 
On the subject of not shipping to California because you don't know the law...

This post isn't meant to insult anyone, but rather to motivate.

Afraid to ship an accessory because you don't know the laws?
You certainly can learn the law if you want to.
For the vast majority of gun accessories, it isn't hard at all.
If you have a really weird or unusual accessory and the law is vague on it,
maybe you just don't chance it.
But the rules for common accessories are well known.

Look at the TENS of thousands of businesses and people who state in their advertisements that they DO ship firearms accessories and supplies to California. Because they're idiots and don't know what they're messing with? No, they looked it up and confirmed the legal requirement for the item they sell.

Can I sell a telescopic sight in California? -Well, I can go look it up.
Can I sell my pistol to a Californian? -Well, I'll go find out. Maybe, maybe not.
Can I sell anything in California? -It depends upon what it is. Let's find out.
The laws are not kept secret from me.

Now you say, "Well, it's just not that easy... these things are complicated."

But the sellers who sell to Californians found out that it is easy.
If they care to find out, the information is readily available.
Trouble comes to those who don't find out, but ship anyway.
If you get true information from the official source, and run the
straight and true line, you won't flirt with extradition.

Exception: Some people really aren't very capable, some are illiterate, some aren't book smart. Often that is honestly the case. And I certainly don't disparage the person with insufficient intelligence to discover the buying and selling laws in any state. I give those guys the benefit of the doubt, they better not even try. But I read our articulate posts on this thread, and I realize that many of us CAN find out about shipping a telescopic sight to California, or any other goods. Some goods can be shipped, some cannot. We should make the effort to go find out.


NOTE: This post is not meant to insult anyone. If so, I sincerely apologize.

I'm just saying that we (too often) avoid doing things
because we just don't take the time to find out.
This post is intended to motivate all of us to try harder.



I'm still wondering what scope the OP wants. If one is available here in my home town, I'll check the price for him. Then I'll go verify that it can be shipped legally, and I'll help the OP get his scope.
 
My thoughts exactly.

By living in a certain state, you're supporting the people elected to represent you, especially if you're not actively involved in politics. Today's Americans who refuse to become actively involved in politics are taking a knee to their elected officials and saying:

"Rule over me! I lack the passion and interest to do my duty as an American, and don't care to ensure that this democracy functions as it was intended to."

That's really all there is to it. You can claim to be a voting supporter of pro-gun legislation and conservative views, but if you think voting is good enough... take a look around. Obviously it's not good enough. What else can you do about it? Go ask a member of congress - they weren't born into positions of power. They were born naked, bloody, crying, and helpless, just like everyone else. This isn't 1102 England, it's 2011 America. The people who make the decisions are the people who cared enough to make their voices heard.

I was born in California. I like it here, though I do plan to move out after I turn 18 for reasons that have nothing to do with guns, I would simply like to see the country. To tell me to move is highly narrow minded. To insinuate that I should get up and leave my friends and family, my school or my job, to go to a state that has better gun rights so as not to support the Commiefornians is just ignorance.
I am a supporter of pro-gun legislation and conservative views. Do I think voting is enough? No. Do I need to get elected to be a member of congress? I wouldn't do that if my life depended on it. I won't go down the road of arguing about that and turn this into a partisan debate either though.
 
IMHO every time California makes some stupid law the companies that are affected should turn their backs on that state like Ronnie Barrett did. Want fitted sheets required in hotels? Presto, no hotels working in San Fran. Want to deny the right to own a gun without microstamping? Poof, nobody sells guns or ammo including to LEOs. Want to require extra-special-clean cars? Poof, no cars in Cali including LEOs and EMS.

Let them secede and see how much better the otehr 49 states are.

I'd agree with not selling to any state agency but why not sell to individuals?
 
I'll just address the issue of "researching California laws" in order to sell there.

It's certainly worthwhile for a company do so and probably is for an individual who makes all or part of his living at such. However, for us folk who may only sell gun-related items occasionally, it's just not cost-effective. As much as I do care about the plight of California citizens I simply won't spend my time looking up CA law, or other state laws, because there are 40+ states for which I don't need to bother with that. Call me lazy or uncaring or whatever but it just ain't gonna happen.

Now, if we had the "State Laws" sticky I mentioned in an earlier post then I'd be more inclined to sell in those states. The problem with said sticky is it would place THR squarely on the culpibility hot-seat and I don't see why the good folks here would take that chance.
 
I'm just saying that we (too often) avoid doing things
because we just don't take the time to find out.
This post is intended to motivate all of us to try harder

Sorry but IMHO this mentality and statement comes from someone who has never run a small business. Time = money. If I have XXX Scope and can sell it to 49 other states without hassle and do it regularly why would I feel the need to wade into the murky waters of CA or any other heavily regulated area.

If it takes more time and exposes you to more risk you have to ask yourself is it worth the time and extra risk. Its may or may not be about laziness. The tone and scope of your post does not take into consideration that this may simply be a smart business decision and as I think you already know the tone of your post is insulting pre-apoligizing does not mitagate that. :(
 
I can understand not shipping to California due to the confusion of the states gun laws (Although I really don't think a great deal of research or intelligence is needed to learn them. The laws are pretty easy to understand even if they are anti-American in nature) However, the original poster was discussing an individual who refused to sell based off of some idiotic rhetoric about supporting a communist regime if he sold to a CA resident. Hogwash. You are selling to and supporting individuals who are opposed to the "California gustapo" Either way, its his right to sell to whoever he wants. The philosophy is just plain ignorant, misguided and wrong.
 
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