Auto-Forward Ruger Security 9?!?!?

NIGHTLORD40K

NIGHTLORD40K

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My buddy mentioned his newish Sec. 9 will release the locked-open slide automatically when a loaded magazine is inserted forcefully, but not if it is latched in place slowly, thus requiring a (normal, usual) slingshot or depression of the release.
He was of the opinion that this was some sort of "auto forward" feature, not necessarily a problem....

We looked through the owners manual and safety materials provided with his gun and there was no mention of such a feature.

I told him this sounds highly dubious as to the intended operation of the gun, but he was able to find a YT video made by another gentleman whose Sec. 9 exhibited the same condition. In the video (I'm too tech-ignorant to know how to link it, sorry), Ruger Customer Service was (supposedly) contacted and a rep, rather hesitantly, claimed that some pistols would do it and some wouldn't- but that the gun WASN'T defective!

Ok, full stop. If it IS a feature, then ALL of them should have it, and if it is a problem, then NONE should. I'm calling this total BS. Additionally, if this is the designed operation of the gun, there should be mention of it in the manual.

Either the video was faked, the Ruger Rep. didn't know what he was talking about (or lying), or my buddies gun is defective. I'm leaning towards defective.

Any other Security 9 owners here experience the same condition?
 
I don't have the 9mm Luger version but do have the 9mm Browning Short version and mine does not have that feature. I do have quite a few pistols that do close when a loaded magazine is inserted and a few of them also have a slide hold open feature.

I would first check to see if it happens with all magazines or just one magazine and also whether it happens with all ammo or just one brand of ammo.

And I really doubt Ruger considers it normal.
 
I can't answer specifically for the Ruger Security 9, but I don't think most guns are designed to auto-forward. An awful lot of them do, though. Some do think this is a defect, and as an example the S&W M&P would do this regularly enough that S&W went to great lengths to stop this with their M&P 2.0 and redesigned the slide stop.

On the other hand, I don't really consider it a defect, either. I think of it somewhat like an ejection pattern. You may like your gun to eject all rounds to 5' at 4 o'clock, but your gun may send some at 2 o'clock and some at 5 o'clock, and you may consider that a defect. All the ejector and extractor need to do is get the spent case out of the gun. As long as that happens, where they go is not the manufacturers concern.

Likewise, the job of slide lock/slide stop is to lock the slide open on empty, and to release the slide if you hit the slide stop/slide release. As long as it does those two things, the manufacturers would probably consider it working properly.

I don't know the inner workings of the Security 9, but if it bothers you enough, there is probably a spring that can be replaced, or the slide stop could be modified or replaced. From a manufacturers perspective, they don't know how you are inserting the mag's, so they could get the gun in a return, and not be able to replicate the problem.
 
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I have had a few pistols that do that when you insert a mag abruptly.

If I don't want it to happen, I put the mags in more gently.

Apparently it's a fairly common problem and I never worry about it.
 
I have four semi-auto pistols with slide stops (Ruger MkII, Numrich AO 1911A1 clone, H&K USP, CZ-52). With the slide locked open, none of them release on insertion of a loaded magazine no matter how I insert the magazine. Also I had a family member's Ruger LC9s and also repaired a family friend's LC9s and shot both of them and never had an automatic slide release on inserting a loaded magazine. If the slide released on insertion of a magazine, I would consider it a malfunction. If the Security 9 sporadicly auto releases I'd find it disturbing.

Off opening topic. I also retract the slide to full recoil position and release to feed the first round from a fresh magazine. That's the only way with the CZ-52 (no thumb piece on the slide stop) and best way to assure postive feed with 1911A1 clone. One technique for all.
 
I don't know of a single modern production gun that claims this as a feature. I'll go out on a limb and say that any pistol can be made to have this happen -- if enough force is used to overcome spring tension and engagement angles between slide stop/release and slide. If under normal operation this happens it's a defect, or a peculiarity of the design. Loose tolerances, wear, handling, who can say. But I personally don't consider this a feature.

Some do, some don't is not an answer. But I think you do get what you pay for.
 
My old GLock 23 would do that if I slammed the mag hard enough! Cool feature for tactical mall reloading
 
The slide closing when a magazine is forcefully inserted in a gun is not a feature or a defect - it is simply a matter of physics.

When I bought an M&P immediately after they came out, I had no other polymer guns and most of my guns were heavy and all-steel (Colt 1911, Sig P220ST, Sig P226ST, S&W 5906, S&W 4566). I was very concerned when the M&P's slide would close when a magazine was slammed home. Then I read an explanation that slamming a magazine into a light polymer frame would tend to move the frame in relation to the heavier slide, releasing the slide lock. That explanation included a bold claim that any gun would do the same thing if enough force was applied to the frame. I got out my 1911 and tried slamming magazines in until my hand hurt, at which point I switched to a rubber mallet. While I couldn't slam a mag into the 1911 hard enough by hand to release the slide lock, the rubber mallet allowed me to do so consistently. The same was true for all of my other all-steel guns; whack the bottom of the frame hard enough and the slide would go forward.

Pistol grips and their magwells are angled in relation to the slide and barrel. As such, forcefully inserting a magazine tends to move the frame forward in relation to the slide. In the time it takes for the frame's movement to overcome the slide's inertia and get the slide moving, the tension on the slide lever may be removed and the lever allowed to drop to close the slide.

So why don't all guns "auto-forward" in the same way? In guns of similar size, a light (polymer) frame tends to move more easily in relation to the slide than a heavy (steel) frame. Full-size guns with heavier slides tend to auto-forward more easily than smaller guns with lighter slides. The strength of the recoil spring determines the tension on the slide lever when the slide is locked back. The shape of the slide's cutout for the slide lever also influences how easily the tension on the lever can be released.

S&W caught unending grief over full-size M&P's auto-forwarding, so the 2.0 versions have an extra mechanism to prevent the slide lever from disengaging unintentionally.
 
tarosean said:
definitely not unusual for a poly framed handgun
Click to expand...
Yikes.....

Ive never, in 40 years of shooting automatic pistols had this occur, and I preach and teach a solid smack on the bottom of a magazine upon insertion. With the one exception of the Mauser HsC which is designed that way.

But then, Ive only ever owned one polymer pistol. This little "quirk" doesn't make me excited to own another.....
 
As stated earlier in the thread, MANY guns will do this. It’s not an issue to get your panties in a bunch.

Smith and Wesson specifically addressed this issue with the redesign of the M&P 2.0 model.

Some tactical trainers and professional shooters use this “feature” to increase their speed back on target. I’ve heard several prominent trainers/shooters speak on this issue and a consensus amongst them is that it’s a non issue and can make your reloads faster. It is what it is.

Don’t worry about. Accept what is is. Worry about other things.
 
NIGHTLORD40K said:
Either the video was faked, the Ruger Rep. didn't know what he was talking about (or lying), or my buddies gun is defective. I'm leaning towards defective.
Click to expand...
The video isn't faked. It is quite easy to get most guns to Auto Forward when a full magazine is loaded forcefully at the correct angle. I've done it with SIG Classic P-series, Beretta 92-series, S&W steel/alloy framed pistols, and many non-custom 1911s. Most polymer framed pistol will do it. I think the only pistol I've ever found that wouldn't do it was a H&K P7...but then you didn't need to as the act of regripping the squeeze cocker lever would release the slide.

The Ruger rep knew what he was talking about because it is so common, but they won't call it a feature because they folks would complain when they couldn't get their pistols to auto forward...because they weren't performing the process correctly

The gun isn't defective because it isn't exempt from the laws of physics. Since were talking about a polymer framed pistol, I'll address the issues which contribute to it in those models.
1. The frame to slide engagement usually has more vertical play; either because of molded rails or small metal tabs used to retain the slide on the frame.
2. When a fully loaded mag is inserted forcefully into the magwell, that vertical motion/energy is transferred to the slide.
3. The slide "lifts" to the limit of it's vertical play
4. The forward angle of most grips also contribute to the frame, containing the slide stop, moving forward
5. The combination of the lift of the slide and the forward motion of the frame causes the slide stop to disengage

bubbatime said:
As stated earlier in the thread, MANY guns will do this.
Don’t worry about. Accept what is is. Worry about other things.
Click to expand...
The above statement summarizes it very well. It isn't a big enough thing to get worked up about.

Some tactical trainers and professional shooters use this “feature” to increase their speed back on target. I’ve heard several prominent trainers/shooters speak on this issue and a consensus amongst them is that it’s a non issue and can make your reloads faster. It is what it is.
Click to expand...
I've used it in competition and training class to great affect. The trick is to find, or modify, your gun so it does it all the time
 
NIGHTLORD40K said:
Yikes.....

Ive never, in 40 years of shooting automatic pistols had this occur, and I preach and teach a solid smack on the bottom of a magazine upon insertion. With the one exception of the Mauser HsC which is designed that way.

But then, Ive only ever owned one polymer pistol. This little "quirk" doesn't make me excited to own another.....
Click to expand...

I apoligize in advance for nitpicking, but a small number of automatic pistols have been designed to close automatically upon insertion of a loaded magazine. The most common example is the Mauser Hsc 32 automatic, which was made on and off from 1940 until about 1980. I learned this when I bought a Mauser Hsc, took it to the range, shot it empty, and then put in a loaded magazine. I found it quite disconcerting, but it was just working as designed. It was supposed to make for a faster reload, but like others here, I did not like it from a safety point of view.

I don't think any modern pistol is designed to do that, and I agree with NIGHTLORD40K that any Ruger pistol that does that is out of adjustment. Surprising owners with an undocumented "feature" is not a good idea with firearms, IMO.
 
Monac said:
I learned this when I bought a Mauser Hsc, took it to the range, shot it empty, and then put in a loaded magazine. I found it quite disconcerting, but it was just working as designed. It was supposed to make for a faster reload, but like others here, I did not like it from a safety point of view.
Click to expand...
Comparing the Mauser HsC to the subject we're discussing is a bit of Apples vs. Oranges comparison.

While the Mauser was designed to automatically release the slide when a magazine is inserted, the pistols we are discussing will not. You can insert a magazine at any time without releasing the slide. It it only when the magazine is inserted 1) completely full, 2) forcefully, and 3) at the correct angle that the slide will auto forward.

The H&K P7 I mentioned earlier in this thread would not auto forward when a loaded magazine was inserted. This was a result of a combination of the magazine being inserted perpendicular to the bore line and how the slide was retained by the frame. The P7 doesn't even have a slide release, having been designed with only a slide stop

H%26K_P7_%286825671856%29.jpg
 
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9mmepiphany said:
Comparing the Mauser HsC to the subject we're discussing is a bit of Apples vs. Oranges comparison.

While the Mauser was designed to automatically release the slide when a magazine is inserted, the pistols we are discussing will not. You can insert a magazine at any time without releasing the slide. It it only when the magazine is inserted 1) completely full, 2) forcefully, and 3) at the correct angle that the slide will auto forward.

The H&K P7 I mentioned earlier in this thread would not auto forward when a loaded magazine was inserted. This was a result of a combination of the magazine being inserted perpendicular to the bore line and how the slide was retained by the frame. The P7 doesn't even have a slide release, having been designed with only a slide stop

View attachment 1145882
Click to expand...

I would not have made my post if I had noticed that NIGHTLORD40K had already mentioned the Mauser Hsc. In that sense, it was a mistake. Are you saying it is apples and oranges because the Hsc was designed to close automatically when a loaded magazine was inserted, and the others were not, and are just doing it because of the reasons described by gc70 in post #70?
 
9mmepiphany said:
Comparing the Mauser HsC to the subject we're discussing is a bit of Apples vs. Oranges comparison.

While the Mauser was designed to automatically release the slide when a magazine is inserted, the pistols we are discussing will not. You can insert a magazine at any time without releasing the slide. It it only when the magazine is inserted 1) completely full, 2) forcefully, and 3) at the correct angle that the slide will auto forward.

The H&K P7 I mentioned earlier in this thread would not auto forward when a loaded magazine was inserted. This was a result of a combination of the magazine being inserted perpendicular to the bore line and how the slide was retained by the frame. The P7 doesn't even have a slide release, having been designed with only a slide stop

View attachment 1145882
Click to expand...
Ah yes, another reason I love my P7! :D

In truth, I think I got the answer I was looking for. Having relatively little experience with plastic pistols, I was taken aback by the behavior of my friend's Ruger, but the physics make sense that one could get almost any pistol to auto-forward if sufficient force is used, that force threshold being, generally higher for guns with more mass to the frame (metal usually).

All this said, its not a quality that does anything to endear polymer guns to me- but then I didn't like them to begin with, so que sera, sera.....

My buddy doesn't mind since it occurs regularly enough that he expects the gun to behave in this manner and hes ok with it as a "feature," not a problem.
 
The slide on my H&K P30L releases without undue magazine insertion force (no hands were hurt in the making of the video). However, the L model's slide is longer and heavier than a standard slide and I used a newer 17-round magazine rather than an original 15-round magazine, both of which would increase the ease of releasing the slide.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/5eajxPfr0dY

The pistol had never previously auto-forwarded during normal operation; I don't usually insert magazines very vigorously.
 
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9mmepiphany said:
...The P7 doesn't even have a slide release, having been designed with only a slide stop
Click to expand...
Most self-loading handguns do not have a slide release, only a slide stop. Read the manuals and notice the part name. They want you to slingshot the gun. Mostly.
 
Yep, it’s nothing new. Happened a few times with some of my guns, but with the Glocks I was issued it happened tons of times on the range. :thumbup:

Stay safe.
 
My M&P 1.0 will routinely.
My SA MixMaster will often.
My CZ75 will sometimes.

I have heard of Glock shooters rounding the corner of the slide stop to ensure it.

Auto forward is surely a defect to the manufacturer but it is a competitive advantage in IDPA where slide lock reloads are routine.
 
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