Autos over revolvers for ccw... is it because of capacity?

[Fiv3r]

Isn't that what Plaxico Burress did? Never ever at any time would I carry a Glock without a stiff, trigger covering holster. I don't like the damned things anyway, I'm just sayin', you don't wanna get shot with your own gun and become yet ANOTHER headline victim of the "safe action".

Plaxico put a fully cocked pistol down his sweatpants. I think most would realize that there is a difference between someone who carries and practices with firearms and a stupid wannabe thug that is concerned about personal protection, yet is either surrounded by or can afford to be surrounded by professional bodyguards. I would never put any cocked (locked or otherwise) IWB unholstered. Actually I wouldn't do that with a revolver that doesn't have the hammer shrouded or bobbed. I prefer a holstered weapon at any given opportunity.

As I said in my post, it rides well on my hip (as in a holster). In this condition it is cocked and has the trigger covered as well as a retention strap. However, sometimes a holster won't go with my wardrobe needs. Or sometimes I grab a pistol and stick it in my pocket or waistband to have it should I absolutely need it. Is it 100% ready to go? No, but it's better to have it on my uncocked than to not have it at all. But that's another debate.

 

[smoketheresfire]

I wish people would get this idiocy out of their minds.

I think we need to stop thinking in terms of what may have been true 50 years ago and start thinking of what a modern gunfight may be. Your FBI statistics may not be there to save you if you should encounter an 'active shooter' or two.

*You cannot control the dynamics of a gunfight.

*Each gunfight may be different than the last.

*You will probably miss at least half your shots.

*There may be multiple attackers. Not all criminals are stupid or cowardly and not all work alone. They may have friends and accomplices with them. Some even practice with their own weapons and practice developing their tactics. Some fully expect resistance from their intended victims and train to overcome it.

*In the event you have to use deadly force, your shots may not stop the threats, even if you get solid hits on the bad guys, regardless of the caliber you carry. For each aggressor, you may have to "shoot them to the ground."

*Your bullets may have to traverse through intermediate barriers, reducing their effectiveness.

*Some bad guys are hardened career criminals. Some have been beaten, stabbed or shot before. They know what pain is like. The sight of your little 5 or 6 shot gun may not deter them from an attack.

*A determined criminal wants to take your life a lot more than you want to take his. He will have initiative and aggression on his side. As a good guy, you will be reacting to the situation and be naturally more hesitant to use deadly force. The bad guys know this and will use it to their advantage.

*Instead of 'low-balling' a life threatening situation, plan on the 'worse case scenario.' Expect multiple attackers and expect to miss half your shots and expect that your shots may "fail to stop."

*Your weapon choice should take into account all these factors. In my opinion, a weapon for self defense should be as versitile as possible within the scope of a concealable self defense handgun.

That about sums it up.

 

[ohwell]

I prefer my SP101 in the winter and my LCP in the summer I also carry the LCP unchambered as I have practiced chambering when I draw the gun . I feel real uneasy about carrying a cocked semi auto with a light trigger.

 

[Landric]

David E said:

<sigh> This totally misses the point.

To illustrate, let's do this: You take your two revolvers and holster them however you want to. I'll go with my M&P-40 carried in a KyTac BraveHeart.

Starting hands at sides, guns holstered. At signal, we both draw and fire 6 shots each at center mass of two IPSC targets set at 10 yds for 12 shots total. First one done, wins.

The fastest reload is NO reload.

I didn't miss the point. I never claimed that carrying two revolvers was faster than not having to reload. Clearly it isn't, I like revolvers for the advantages they have over autos, and as I pointed out, I'm not concerned with capacity.

We could just as easily have a contest where each of us has to fire five shots with the muzzle pressed into a target with the same consistency has a living thing. If your M&P fires at all, it will be one round likely followed by a malfunction. My revolver will shoot its self empty. Or, we could have a contest where we have to fire five rounds from inside a coat pocket. Again, an M&P will likely fire one shot and malfunction, a revolver will shoot all five shots.

None of that makes the M&P a bad defensive weapon any more than the lower capacity of the revolver makes it a bad choice. They have different strengths and weaknesses, my preference is for the strengths of the revolver under most circumstances. When I choose to carry an auto, its a M&P45.

 

[David E]

My orignial point was to challenge your reload assertion.

First, after your 5-6 shots, you have no choice but to reload or draw your second gun.......if you have it. Whilst I can simply keep shooting.

But let's say we're both empty. Depending where your second gun is, you may or may not be able to draw it before I'm able to reload my semi-auto. I carry my reload concealed on the belt, so my reload will be under 2 seconds. I can do said reload while moving towards cover. If your spare gun is carried in an ankle rig or stuffed in a pocket, you're not moving to cover anytime soon.

Yes, they each have their strong points. For jacket pocket carry, the revolver usually wins, providing it has a concealed hammer. If it doesn't, then you'd get the same one shot guarantee I'd get with a semi-auto.

 

[Landric]

I had a friend time me with a shot timer drawing my BUG from a pocket holster. Starting with my hands outside my pockets and down by my side the time from buzzer to my first shot (a hit center mass at 5 yards on an IDPA target) was under one second. That is faster than I can reload anything. I'm sure someone out there could reload a pistol in that time, but I can't.

I'm not debating your points that autos hold more ammunition (usually) or are faster to reload. My point is just that I am more concerned with other issues than I am with capacity or the speed of a reload. I didn't miss your points, I just consider them less important. Obviously you don't agree, that is fine, I'm not trying to persuade you to carry a revolver.

 

[Girodin]

I didn't read all the posts so maybe this has been mentioned, but your poll is flawed in that it only allows one to chose that capacity is the primary factor or not a factor at all. There is a middle ground. I can be a factor even a significant one without being dispositive.

Starting with my hands outside my pockets and down by my side the time from buzzer to my first shot (a hit center mass at 5 yards on an IDPA target) was under one second.

I was drilling this just the other day and timing the shots and that was my experience as well (save I was shooting at 3-4 yards)

I also carry the LCP unchambered as I have practiced chambering when I draw the gun . I feel real uneasy about carrying a cocked semi auto with a light trigger.

If there is one word I would not use to describe the trigger pull of an LCP it is light. The LCP has a heavy and LONG trigger pull that requires a fairly deliberate pull to fire. Chamber the round and carry it in a holster that covers the trigger and you'll be just fine.

 

[NWCP]

A semi auto pistol conceals more easily than a wheel gun. Being flat sided pistols are more comfortable with an IWB holster than revolvers. I do like the added capacity, but comfort is also a big plus for the semi auto. JMHO

 

[Autolycus]

I feel more comfortable with a semi-auto. I can reload faster if need be. Not to mention the 9mm is cheaper for me to buy than revolver calibers. Capacity is also a nice bonus. I can easily carry 45 round of 9mm with my Glock 26 and 2 17-round mags as reloads. To get that many out of a J-frame snubbie I would need 8 reloads.

 

[ohwell]

If there is one word I would not use to describe the trigger pull of an LCP it is light. The LCP has a heavy and LONG trigger pull that requires a fairly deliberate pull to fire. Chamber the round and carry it in a holster that covers the trigger and you'll be just fine.

Your right the LCP's trigger is very good in that respect its a habit I developed from carrying my other semi auto's and it also helps keep that round that would be chambered from getting beatup by constantly chambering and unchambering it .

 

[David E]

Landric, that's a pretty fast pocket draw. You must have the ideal combination of pocket/holster/hands to do it under a second.

How fast is it while moving towards cover?

I've not counted things up, but I probably have just as many revolvers as I do semi-autos. But, as of now, the only time I carry a gun for defense is while hunting or camping and it's not a J-frame snubby.

But that's why they make Ford's AND Chevy's

 

[Landric]

David E Said:

Landric, that's a pretty fast pocket draw. You must have the ideal combination of pocket/holster/hands to do it under a second.

I use a Kramer pocket holster with my Airweight, and pants with large pocket openings. That is what I was using when we timed it. I carry on my weak side (my left as I generally shoot right handed), but I use my left hand for a lot of things (writing, eating, etc.) so its not as "dumb" as a lot of right handed peoples'. As soon as the gun clears the pocket it goes muzzle toward the target and the trigger pull starts, generally firing as the revolver gets to high chest level. Its fast, and accurate at close range.

How fast is it while moving towards cover?

I can't tell you that, but I can tell you that I plan to be moving toward cover as soon as a threat is identified, not after I have shot my first revolver dry and I'm trying to draw my second one.

I've not counted things up, but I probably have just as many revolvers as I do semi-autos. But, as of now, the only time I carry a gun for defense is while hunting or camping and it's not a J-frame snubby.

Frankly, I'm not comfortable with just a J-frame snubbie. It is limited to five shots and very slow to reload. .38 Special is also not powerful enough for my taste as a primary armament out of a 2" barrel. On the other hand, I'm quite comfortable with my .357 Magnum SP101 as a primary weapon. Of course my 158 grain SJHP carry ammunition has slightly more than twice the muzzle energy and about 320 fps more velocity than my 158 grain LSWCHP (+P) .38 Special ammunition. I have a 3" SP101 that I need to qualify with. Once I do, it will become my revolver primary with the 2 1/4" DAO SP becoming my backup. I carry the DAO SP in my pocket all the time when carrying my M&P as primary, despite what many say about the SP being too heavy or bulky for pocket carry. Once that happens I can move the .38 Special Airweight to its primary role for me, an on-duty backup. I carry it in an ankle holster on duty (both because my other equipment blocks access to my pants pockets and because an ankle rig is more accessible while seated in a patrol car than a duty retention holster). Thanks to an old knee injury I can't carry anything heavier on my ankle than an Airweight. I can wear the Airweight easily for a 12 hour shift, with a heavier gun I can barely walk after an hour or so. I'd seriously consider switching to a .357 Magnum M&P340 for ankle carry if it was available without that stupid internal lock. Since it isn't, I'll stick with my lock free 37-2.

But that's why they make Ford's AND Chevy's

Ain't that the truth.

 

[7.62x54mmR]

Capacity and ease of reload.

I second Capacity and ease of reload.

 

[Guns and more]

Let's cut to the chase.
Pistols are cool.

 

[Girodin]

A semi auto pistol conceals more easily than a wheel gun.

That obviously depends on the model of each. My LCR conceals easier/better than my Glock 26.

 

[scoutsabout]

Capacity is a tertiary matter, in my opinion.

Some of the advantages of autos:

1. Rate of fire

2. Concealability

3. Ease of reload

3. Concealability of spare mags

... capacity comes in somewhere down here ...

 

[zombienerd]

My daily carry only holds 7+1 so, not that much of an advantage over a 6 shot revolver.

I carry my little Bersa because it's light, thin, and comfortable to wear.

My only revolver is a 5.5" Super Blackhawk... A little hard to reload if you needed to, and way to heavy to carry every day

There's also the fact that I'm not crazy about DAO weapons, the trigger pulls are just a bit too long for my taste.

 

[grimjaw]

Considering that the Mateba (autoloading revolver) never took off, I don't think the reason that the majority (>50%) switch has to do with operating system.

jm

 

[ronto]

I can understand capacity in a bad neighborhood...I stay away from bad neighborhoods and carry a 357 for any strays.

 

[Man With A Gun]

Old school fbi stats

Once upon a time the FBI told us shootouts happened this way;
1. Close range ( ie less than 10 yards )
2. Low light conditions
3. One on One shooter
4. 3 or less shots fired

Today, it may be different with the advent of gangs and home invasions etc.

A revolver is sure...limited on shots but fast into action. Simpe to use in stress fire matters.

Autoloaders cover the gamet ....go for simple like the GLOCK style autos. No levers or buttons to push under stress...just point and pull.

The new light weight autos are hard to beat.