Backpacking gun?
- Thread starter david58
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Guillermo’s a thinkin man’s man,,,,,,,,,,
About a yr and a half ago I was sitting on a rock having lunch along a Smokie Mountain path and my wife is like do you hear that? And all of a sudden a Big A## Black Bear must have been 375 plus lbs come grunting out of the brush he looked at us, I reached for my G20, and just as I got it out he sniffed the air and I guess he wasn’t in the mood for peanut butter and naner sandwiches, chips, and power aid, or us for a snack, or the scent of Hoppes made him nervous, and turned and lumbered off back into the woods. So who the heck knows what’s in their thinking process?? Beats the monkey poo out ah me.
Whether you choose a firearm or spray or a sharp stick or just banging pots and pans together, whatever, or nothing but luck may be the only thing in your favor if fuzzy wuzzy crosses your path like it worked for me. The comments just keep on coming,,,,,
As for some of the statistics of these scientific bear spray studies. Not to discredit it but that study is 3-yrs old. Also your talking about a scientific experiment done in a somewhat controlled environmental setting by a specialized working group. At $30. to $60. a can I do not think too many hikers are going to test it to see how it works. If you look at these http://counterassault.com/html/beardeterrent.html =
http://tierneylab.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/03/28/bear-attack-not-to-worry/ = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTKmKPlXJug = http://leerburg.com/1212.htm some are ads and some are instructional but all the spray cans shoot out a foggy cloud not a stream and in any type of a breeze you never now where it’s going to go and they only have an 8 to maybe 20 ft range. And the study said it doesn’t work all the time and it could, does, or WILL get on you too.
As for the gun statistics what caliber, weight and type of bullets were use? How many hits and misses were there, and how far away were the shots taken? How long did they have before they were eaten by the bear? Yep you put a .38+P+ to the head of a bear and you might drop it but that’s too close for my comfort zone. At least with 10 or better yet 15 heavy FNHC rounds streaming out of a G29 or G20 I would be in MY comfort zone and one of those shouldn’t weigh you too much to be totally uncomfortable to carry. And with a little practice I’m sure you could plug enough rounds into Yogi in the 3 to 7 seconds you’ll have before he starts snacking on your face to at least make him think about leaving you be on your way un-eaten.
Besides statistics can begin to convince you of almost anything if you look at them hard enough. Look at some of these SD ammo ads.
About a yr and a half ago I was sitting on a rock having lunch along a Smokie Mountain path and my wife is like do you hear that? And all of a sudden a Big A## Black Bear must have been 375 plus lbs come grunting out of the brush he looked at us, I reached for my G20, and just as I got it out he sniffed the air and I guess he wasn’t in the mood for peanut butter and naner sandwiches, chips, and power aid, or us for a snack, or the scent of Hoppes made him nervous, and turned and lumbered off back into the woods. So who the heck knows what’s in their thinking process?? Beats the monkey poo out ah me.
Whether you choose a firearm or spray or a sharp stick or just banging pots and pans together, whatever, or nothing but luck may be the only thing in your favor if fuzzy wuzzy crosses your path like it worked for me. The comments just keep on coming,,,,,
As for some of the statistics of these scientific bear spray studies. Not to discredit it but that study is 3-yrs old. Also your talking about a scientific experiment done in a somewhat controlled environmental setting by a specialized working group. At $30. to $60. a can I do not think too many hikers are going to test it to see how it works. If you look at these http://counterassault.com/html/beardeterrent.html =
http://tierneylab.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/03/28/bear-attack-not-to-worry/ = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTKmKPlXJug = http://leerburg.com/1212.htm some are ads and some are instructional but all the spray cans shoot out a foggy cloud not a stream and in any type of a breeze you never now where it’s going to go and they only have an 8 to maybe 20 ft range. And the study said it doesn’t work all the time and it could, does, or WILL get on you too.
As for the gun statistics what caliber, weight and type of bullets were use? How many hits and misses were there, and how far away were the shots taken? How long did they have before they were eaten by the bear? Yep you put a .38+P+ to the head of a bear and you might drop it but that’s too close for my comfort zone. At least with 10 or better yet 15 heavy FNHC rounds streaming out of a G29 or G20 I would be in MY comfort zone and one of those shouldn’t weigh you too much to be totally uncomfortable to carry. And with a little practice I’m sure you could plug enough rounds into Yogi in the 3 to 7 seconds you’ll have before he starts snacking on your face to at least make him think about leaving you be on your way un-eaten.
Besides statistics can begin to convince you of almost anything if you look at them hard enough. Look at some of these SD ammo ads.
EVIL
Member
This is what I do. I carry a Glock 27 everywhere - and adjust accordingly. Plus, the manual of arms is reflexive muscle memory now.
I think 2-legged critters are much more numerous than cougars & bears in the lower 48. I've been on several extended back packing trips in the western US and can count on one hand how many times I've encountered bears in the wild. I have never seen a cougar in the wild. I have seen people where I wasn't expecting them.
Everything we carry on a backpacking trip needs to be judged by the item's effectiveness vice the items weight. I would agonize more about how much extra ammo weight should be carried - usually I carry an extra G22 magazine. (Though a CCW .40 S&W isn't the best survival in the wilderness cartridge - it's a comprimise.) I don't skimp on the the 10 (+ 2) scout outdoor essentials (ammo & gun added). The only change I make to my normal carry routine is switching from IWB carry (which doesn't work with a backpacking hipbelt) to a safepacker in my duty belt (below hipbelt).
I wouldn't let a 1911 stop me from enjoying the great outdoors - I would just live with the extra weight and find - a comfortable with backpack on - carry option.
If I was going to grizzly country to hunt, fish or backpack I would probably have a rifle anyway.
NMGonzo
Member
ruger alaskan in .44
because i want one
because i want one
When I go camping in Shenandoah National Park in VA I see at least one black bear about half the times I'm there. Firearms aren't allowed. The park has one of the highest concentrations of black bear in the country, and some of the most inexperienced campers around- a bad mix. And these are ones that associate people with food, thanks to those who feed them, on purpose or not. I saw a very large one walking among tents in the daytime (My wife and I had stayed at a smaller site the night before and woke up to find a big bear trap set up in the middle of the campground in the morning, so I was showing her the bigger, safer site we'd stay at next time- oops), and had one follow me for a while on a trail at dusk- very unnerving (they are predatory given the right circumstances, for example when they are hungry). Another one was around my campsite in Western Md, so I opted not to cook dinner that night. Bear spray makes a lot of sense to me to deal with the rare psychobear, and for our own species you can carry whatever else you like, loaded for jack*ss.
EVIL
Member
EB,
I don't understand how you can't have a firearm to protect yourself in Shenandoah NP...?
Concealed carry is allowed in national parks as of 22 FEB 2010 ... it it the law of the land. A NP cannot decide to not follow the law. VA is a CC state (and has reciprocity with my home state of OH) ... so why would you be barred from carryng there, especially if you have a valid VA CHL? I guess If your state didn't have CHL reciprocity with VA, then you'd be SOL?
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huntershooter
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S&W "Mountain Gun" is ideal for me. Caliber is .45 Colt, handloads of 1100 fps with a 265 gr. WFNGC cast bullet.
I find it a good compromise for weight vs. power.
I find it a good compromise for weight vs. power.
Guillermo
member
Would the Mountain Gun function in a place like Austin that is only 500 feet above sea level?
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
It always turns into a bear defense thread.
Call me weird but I just cannot bring myself to go forth into the woods with a Glock or anything similar. I may find myself in the position where I need to shoot accurately beyond contact distance and for that, the revolver is king. I just would not want to unnecessarily limit myself with a service pistol in the great outdoors. IMHO, the importance of capacity is vastly overrated. Make mine a 4" double action, 4¾" - 5½" single action in anything from .38-40 to .45Colt.
I'm sure that by the numbers on paper, a Glock 10mm is comforting, but at what distances can you place a shot accurately? Does anyone recommending them even practice as far as 25yds?
Call me weird but I just cannot bring myself to go forth into the woods with a Glock or anything similar. I may find myself in the position where I need to shoot accurately beyond contact distance and for that, the revolver is king. I just would not want to unnecessarily limit myself with a service pistol in the great outdoors. IMHO, the importance of capacity is vastly overrated. Make mine a 4" double action, 4¾" - 5½" single action in anything from .38-40 to .45Colt.
I'm sure that by the numbers on paper, a Glock 10mm is comforting, but at what distances can you place a shot accurately? Does anyone recommending them even practice as far as 25yds?
SharpsDressedMan
member
Anyone doubting the performance of a Glock 20 10mm probably hasn't shot one, or hasn't shot it enough. Accuracy from my standard, stock Glock 20 is equal to my stock S&W 25 .45 Colt, for example, and most of my other pistols of all calibers. I generally do 80-90% of my shooting at 25 yards, as that is how my range is set up with steel, etc, and if it hits at 25, it will probably hit at 7 yds or 50 yds.
I've made shots out to a 100yds with my G20.
10mm isn't your normal pistol caliber, it's basically a magnum caliber for pistols. It has more energy at 50yds than a .45acp does at the muzzle.
http://waterguy.us/handgun.htm
Plus if you want even better performance you can get a 6" barrel, but even with the stock barrel they're used for hunting.
10mm isn't your normal pistol caliber, it's basically a magnum caliber for pistols. It has more energy at 50yds than a .45acp does at the muzzle.
http://waterguy.us/handgun.htm
Plus if you want even better performance you can get a 6" barrel, but even with the stock barrel they're used for hunting.
Until the BATF approves my light anti-tank weapon stamp, this is also my "woods" gun.
For CraigC, I can consistently put 90% or more of my Glock 20's rounds in a human torso-sized target at 50 yards. I don't think I would do significantly better with a revolver - particularly under the stress of an attacking predator.
Unlike Weevil, I've never attempted 100 yards.
Well when you consider that 10mm is still hitting at around 400 ft lbs at 100yds and that's more than a typical 9mm has at the muzzle, shots at that range aren't all that spectacular.
Getting your target lined up with ordinary pistol sights at that range is the biggest trick for me.
Getting your target lined up with ordinary pistol sights at that range is the biggest trick for me.
gjn
Member
yes tell the goat story please. if its not that funny then bling it up cause i need a laugh
Guillermo
member
gjn
I don't have a goat story but I tried to be funny in post #85.
Hope that helps.
I don't have a goat story but I tried to be funny in post #85.
Hope that helps.
You're right- it's allowed now, but this was all before last year when the rules changed.
David E
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The OP was about bear defense specifically, was it not?
For bears? Yeah, ok. For two-legged snakes? Maybe not. There is no ammo resupply out in the woods, what you have with you is all there is.
It's not difficult to make accurate shots at distance. Are your accurate revolver shots fired double or single action?
A Glock 20 is a very good combination of simplicity, power, capacity and ruggedness. All beneficial features of an "all-around" outdoors gun. This presumes the owner can hit with his chosen load, of course.
Lazyshooter
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G29SF gets my vote
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
Seems we all have very different standards and expectations.
Hmmm, I reckon all these years that I've toted a single action loaded with five rounds I might as well have had a sharp stick.
My comments about the Glock were more related to its horrendous trigger, coarse sights and service pistol level accuracy than the potential of the cartridge.
Hmmm, I reckon all these years that I've toted a single action loaded with five rounds I might as well have had a sharp stick.
My comments about the Glock were more related to its horrendous trigger, coarse sights and service pistol level accuracy than the potential of the cartridge.
I wouldn't make that assumption. A Glock 21 was my only centerfire automatic for years I bought one when they first came out back in 1992 and I shot it regularly. No, I would not have carried it in the woods much because that is not its purpose.
That's about what I figured. If I couldn't hit a soup can at 50yds 90% of the time, I'd shoot something else, practice more or stay home.
SharpsDressedMan
member
FWIW: my Glock 20SF can punch a soup can at 50 yards all day, but given field conditions, adrenaline (I'm assuming the NEED for a backpacking gun includes threats from 2 or 4 legged "ne'er-do-well's"), and awkward shooting positions, I'd be happy with torso-sized groups at 50 yards. Perhaps we should conduct a test. Let's try to stack some 2-by's (2x4, 2x6, etc) deep enough to show what our respective guns will penetrate at 50 yards (slow fire, from the blench so we get good results), and then run the 100 yard dash up to the firing line, and draw and shoot five rounds into a 1/2 man size silhouette (I typically use the half size blue "B-29" target - aim small, miss small - for my target tests). Be it 500S&W, .454, 10mm, etc, whatever one uses. This is as good of a test and show of comparable results as we are probably going to get on the internet (not all shooting in the same controlled test). It will take me a few days, as we have subzero weather here in Ohio today, but I'll definitely go at it. I do not have hardcast lead 10mm bullets for optimum in my 10mm, but I might have some FMJ's, which would give better penetration on big animals than HP's. With response to "crude" sights on the Glocks: not sure what is meant. My sight picture on the Glock is nice, square, and black (with the white markings, of course)....as capable for accuracy as the Bomar sights on my 1911's. My Glock sights are fixed, but they are also "right on". Let's remeber a Glock 21 is NOT a Glock 20. The 21's I have seen fired and shot myself are extremely accurate, but the G20 is about 10-20% more powerful, shoots way flatter, and is, to me, in a different class. As many have already pointed out, the choice is always a compromise. You like an all steel SA with big heavy bullets? Another guy likes the polymer weight advantage and the 15 shots of 10mm. To each their own. On a given day, or for a more serious threat, I might be inclined to pack heavier hardware, but for maximum portablility with a punch, I STILL like the Glock.
Cryogaijin
Member
I have nothing really against the g20/29, but I chose to go with the EAA Witness 10mm largely due to the manual safety. It is also a 10mm with 15+1. I fit a 22lb recoil spring on it, and it ingests the heaviest factory loads I can find for it just fine. More accurate than my XD45C, as well.
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