Bear Protection for Backpacking Suggestions

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^
School childerns up in New Brunswick or someplace are required to carry rifles to and from school every day for polar bear.
 
^^because everyone has a lifestyle that can accommodate keeping 2-3 large dogs around just for that occasional hike in bear country.:rolleyes:
 
Any ol' dog won't do.
The other day a bear chased my lab out of the windbreak behind the house.
She broke all land speed records running to try and hide behind me! :D
Then ran over to the porch and hid there till she was sure the bear was gone.
 
the mountain next to my house is called 'bear mountain'
cause there are BROWN bears there,
please take the time to look up the AK DNR page on bear encounters,
Backpacker did a great article a few years ago, and it was on their website free to everyone.

My point is, too many people pick up a 'big hulking gun'
and that's as far as they go, they never take the time to learn a little about bear behavior, never take the time to learn about bear signs etc.

That said, every time I've encountered a bear it was at distance, they did what they did, and I kept going, yeah a bit more paranoid, but then I don't have a habit of venturing off by my self and tend to stick to the more traveled trails.

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bears encounters dog
dog runs
dog hides (behind you)
bear encounters YOU....

dogs ain't worth much more than a early warning, with the understanding that they will draw the bear into you...
TRAINED, bear dogs, are a different story.
http://www.bearunoffkennels.com/
 
bears encounters dog
dog runs
dog hides (behind you)
bear encounters YOU....

True story and not enough people think about the family pooch tagging along when in bear country.

We got a grizzly hanging around now, so I suppose I should start strapping something on when I'm going to be messing around in the thick willows and brush again.
Friend of mine was on his way home on his motorcycle after irrigating on the dirt road behind my house and a big old boar wouldn't get out of the road, he had to go back and wait awhile till the griz finally wandered off so he could get by.
 
My point is, too many people pick up a 'big hulking gun'
and that's as far as they go, they never take the time to learn a little about bear behavior, never take the time to learn about bear signs etc.

I can agree with you there. an ounce of caution beats a pound of mecication. or something like that.
 
Now I do have to ask...

And having absolutely zero bear experience slaying undead grizzly laser bears save what I read on this forum (at least I'm honest here)...

...What's with this layered defense methodology again? When people go on about how you should have both a firearm and bearspray, I can't help but to envision this person dual wielding a can in one hand and a pistol in the other aimed at the bear and waiting for his move.

Frankly, once the bear is inside your bear spray's 18-30ft effective range, you have some decisions to make; decisions you probably should have made well before that point. This isn't a layered defense no matter how much people say it is. You aren't going to try the bear spray, then fumble for your pistol as the sauced bear shrugs it off and decides you're dinner. You like bear spray and that's fine, but don't delude yourself into thinking you'll get a do-over. If you've let Sir 30mph Meat Tank inside bear spray range and it decides you're a threat, I really hope you made the right choice.

This isn't layered defense. The terminology is flat out misleading. You probably won't get to change your mind. Unless you're Quick Draw Mcgraw- and most of us ain't -I don't see it happening.

Best of luck in any event.
 
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Now I do have to ask...

And having absolutely zero bear experience slaying undead grizzly laser bears save what I read on this forum (at least I'm honest here)...

...What's with this layered defense methodology again? When people go on about how you should have both a firearm and bearspray, I can't help but to envision this person dual wielding a can in one hand and a pistol in the other aimed at the bear and waiting for his move.

Frankly, once the bear is inside your bear spray's 18-30ft effective range, you have some decisions to make; decisions you probably should have made well before that point. This isn't a layered defense no matter how much people say it is. You aren't going to try the bear spray, then fumble for your pistol as the sauced bear shrugs it off and decides you're dinner. You like bear spray and that's fine, but don't delude yourself into thinking you'll get a do-over. If you've let Sir 30mph Meat Tank inside bear spray range and it decides you're a threat, I really hope you made the right choice.

This isn't layered defense. The terminology is flat out misleading. You probably won't get to change your mind. Unless you're Quick Draw Mcgraw- and most of us ain't -I don't see it happening.

Best of luck in any event.
Well, since I believe I am the person that mentioned a "layered defense," I guess I will answer your response. If someone else mentioned it first, please refresh my memory.

What I mean by a layered defense is starting with the basics. From a study a couple of years ago looking back at a century of bear attacks in Alaska, a couple of important issues were evident. First, most attacks occur with one or two people walking, hiking or working alone. When you go to four or more people in a group, bear attacks drop precipitously. Second, most attacks occur in dense brush as opposed to open areas. If it is possible to avoid dense brush, the chance of a bear attack likewise drops greatly.

Thus the first layer of defense is recognizing how terrain and group strength affects your risk before you even leave the door of your house. The next layer of defense is understanding bear behavior should you encounter a bear in the woods and what actions you should take. Most bear experts recommend standing your ground in almost all situations and then slowly retreating to safety if possible.

After all of these considerations, having BOTH bear spray as your usual first choice most often carried in a chest holster ready for use immediately is the next layer of defense. For the case mentioned a bit ago, when the bear spray canister is spent, what is your next layer of defense? That is when lethal deterrence is mandatory for proper preparation.

Many people prefer guns as their primary bear deterrence and fortunately, there are studies from DLPs in Alaska showing them equally effective to bear spray despite the concerted propaganda we have heard to the contrary for the last decade at least. If a gun is your primary bear defense, then practice at moving targets if possible to gain the proficiency needed. Thus practice and proficiency is another layer of bear defense.

Next is the bear safety protocols used in camps to prevent attacks while sleeping including separate food preparation and eating areas from the sleeping area. Many in bear country consider a standard layer of protection using a portable electric fence and some sort of perimeter warning systems in addition to camp hygiene.

When you add all of these factors together, you still are well below a 100% effective plan. That is what I meant by a layered defense. Perhaps the most important aspect of that is having at least one other person prepared to be your back up should your primary defense measures fail.

If you look at the majority of bear attacks noted in the news, there are very few cases where all of these measures failed. Most attacks are against people that didn't give much thought at all to bear defense before heading into the woods. That just isn't a smart way to camp, hike or hunt any longer. I point to the Canadian case where the man above chose to bring a large hunting knife as his lethal deterrent since he couldn't carry a gun legally. His planning in advance saved his life and his dog's.

Once again, there truly are multiple layers of bear defense. If you take issue with my term, so be it, but that is what I meant by a layered defense. For Christine Courtney, a layered defense including a gun or even a large knife above and beyond their one canister of bear spray would have gone a long way to surviving her attack by a juvenile bear.
 
Now I do have to ask...

And having absolutely zero bear experience slaying undead grizzly laser bears save what I read on this forum (at least I'm honest here)...

...What's with this layered defense methodology again? When people go on about how you should have both a firearm and bearspray, I can't help but to envision this person dual wielding a can in one hand and a pistol in the other aimed at the bear and waiting for his move.
This isn't layered defense. The terminology is flat out misleading. You probably won't get to change your mind. Unless you're Quick Draw Mcgraw- and most of us ain't -I don't see it happening.

Best of luck in any event.
It saves you a VERY through rectal exam by a variety of law enforcement and wildlife agencies. The Park Service takes a VERY dim view of you shooting their attractions.
bear spray is VERY effective when it's employed on POSTURING and Defensive bears (aggressive/hunting YOU bears... well kinda, and blacks are LESS affected than browns)
so instead of being Flash McGee and 'plugg'n full of lead' you can dissuade the bear and avoid a whole slew of legal issues....
gun for those that won't turn or as BACKUP

(the Ideal is that one person has the spray, while another (up wind) has the gun and is 10-15* off the line of person 1/bear)


AND ONCE AGAIN
equipment will NEVER make up for failing to be bear smart in bear country
MINDSET SKILLSET and then (further down)
EQUIPMENT....

these tend to be MUCH too much on 'what gun'
and not on 'don't be an idiot'
 
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It saves you a VERY through rectal exam by a variety of law enforcement and wildlife agencies. The Park Service takes a VERY dim view of you shooting their attractions.
bear spray is VERY effective when it's employed on POSTURING and Defensive bears (aggressive/hunting YOU bears... well kinda, and blacks are LESS affected than browns)
so instead of being Flash McGee and 'plugg'n full of lead' you can dissuade the bear and avoid a whole slew of legal issues....
gun for those that won't turn or as BACKUP

(the Ideal is that one person has the spray, while another (up wind) has the gun and is 10-15* off the line of person 1/bear)


AND ONCE AGAIN
equipment will NEVER make up for failing to be bear smart in bear country
MINDSET SKILLSET and then (further down)
EQUIPMENT....

these tend to be MUCH too much on 'what gun'
and not on 'don't be an idiot'
Very interesting commentary by a firearm/ammo expert. Tim Sundles of Buffalo Bore gave his philosophy of bear protection. May not be politically correct, but it truly sheds light on a much discussed issue. His choice, 45-70 and 500 Limbaugh for bear defense, .338 for hunting. Read his whole treatise, I have included a short exerpt:

“Stopping” bears with handgun or rifle cartridges

. . . There are many in our society who believe the life of an animal has equal or greater value than that of a human. I disagree. A bear is a wild animal, that when not threatening human life, is a wonderful sight. However, when I encounter bears that act aggressively by popping their teeth, woofing, swinging their head from side to side, charging, etc. I shoot them. I do not give them a prolonged chance to kill my wife, children, myself or any one that is with me. When I encounter bears (which I do several times per year) that run at my sight or smell, they are safe from me because I know I am safe from them. When they show aggression to humans, it is irresponsible to let them live as they will eventually permanently harm or kill someone. I don’t care that our governmental wild life agencies are protecting bears. They are generally misguided in this tactic. . .

https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=108

No wonder I like his ammo so much. He makes them in accordance to his philosophy and they work well. He always puts people first and bears are wild animals not to be placed above people. If they are aggressive, he views it his responsibility to eliminate that animal. Very interesting take on this entire discussion. Interestingly, he feels a 9 mm with the right bullets capable of bear defense.
 
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these tend to be MUCH too much on 'what gun'
and not on 'don't be an idiot'

just going around in circles here. But there are guns that make for better hiking pieces. The wieght to caliber power ratio and how well you can control it, is really what is important I'm thinking
 
Well, considering this is a "Gun" forum...and not a "Don't be an idiot" forum…though sometimes I wonder :scrutiny:, perhaps the tendency to discuss "What gun?" just might make more sense than some here might want to admit ;)

Besides, confrontation avoidance based upon a thorough understanding of bear behavior works great…until it doesn’t. I don’t know that a bitch slap is near as effective during a predatory attack…as some sort of…”Gun” :uhoh::D
 
Your average camper or park visitor is not going to research bear behavior. His knowledge is going to be pretty much limited to what might be on signs posted in National Parks or perhaps a brochure distributed in the park for visitors.

Hence, bear spray and a reasonable firearm that you have with you are prudent preventative measures. I wouldn't go so far as shoot 'em if they display aggressive behavior toward humans as suggested by Buffalo Bore, but it does merit paying attention.
 
I had the same need but went in a very different direction. I carry a ruger Blackhawk in .357 for bears. .38 snakeshot some times of the year; plink with .38 wwb. Heavy, reliable, simple, safe, versatile, and I know I can use it under stress. Funny how the same needs and data can lead you in such a different direction.
 
38 snake shot to use on a bear?
Even around here where we still think of black bears as destructive pests no one would even think about pissing one off at close range with a puny blast of snake shot.
 
Unlike the guy who owns BB

YOU probably don't have the spare cash to hire lawyers to defend a bad shoot.
some learning can go a long way, I'm not saying dont' defend yourself, I'm saying don't be stupid,

blazing away at bear..... he may talk the talk, but I'm willing to guess he hasn't been to Alaska and met our wildlife troopers....
 
Think he probably means a semi auto rifle of some model in 308.
Don't know why though, for hunting there's slews of rifles good for bear around.
An old late friend in Idaho hunted bear, including grizzly, for 6o years with an iron sighted 99 Savage in 250-3000.
For just wandering around in grizzly country where there's a good chance of an unwanted close encounter I'll pack a hand gun.
 
38 snake shot to use on a bear?
Even around here where we still think of black bears as destructive pests no one would even think about pissing one off at close range with a puny blast of snake shot.

Sorry if I was unclear. I am talking about my hiking gun. In some places, certain times of year, snakes are a bigger threat than bears. I wouldn't shoot a bear with snake shot.
 
Unlike the guy who owns BB

YOU probably don't have the spare cash to hire lawyers to defend a bad shoot.
some learning can go a long way, I'm not saying dont' defend yourself, I'm saying don't be stupid,

blazing away at bear..... he may talk the talk, but I'm willing to guess he hasn't been to Alaska and met our wildlife troopers....
The interesting thing about Tim Sundles at Buffalo Bore is that he answers his own emails on questions about his ammo. I did that on one or two occasions.

As far as him never being to Alaska, no, that is not true. Listen to his account of how he agreed on who would shoot and when with his guide while on a grizzly hunt in Alaska.

05-21-2010 #86
Tim Sundles
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Homes in MT and ID
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First, most AK brown bear guides really dont let many of thier clients shoot much over 100 yards. Second, when I hunted AK brown bear I had an agreement with my guide that if I wounded a bear and it was getting away, I and only I could shoot it. Third, ONLY if the bear was harming me, was the guide allowed to shoot the bear at all. Fourth, I could carry a round in the chamber at all times. He agreed before we ever set one foot afield.

Most guiding will require very close shots. One of the errors I see in this thread is the misconception that AK Brown Bear guides will often be shooting big bears at long range--that simply does not and should not happen often, if at all.

For guiding AK Brown Bear, the 45-70 with heavy loads is almost perfect and is better than a 338 WM or a 375H&H, BUT THE SAME CANNOT BE SAID FOR HUNTING Brown Bear. Guiding and hunting are far different.

http://forums.outdoorsdirectory.com...ry-a-xxx-Rifle?p=739728&viewfull=1#post739728

If you have an issue with what Tim Sundles wrote in his BB advice on bear defense, simply email him and post his reply here.

https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=page_view&p=contact_us

He is not someone that I would disparage however.
 
Yeah, well, there is HUGE difference between HUNTING and PROTECTION
shooting any bear that postures is a good way to have F&G make your stuff their stuff and end up with a set of shiny new bracelets.

it's a sound bite, I'm sure there is LOTS more to it, but...
not sound advice.
 
Down here of course grizzlies are protected.
Our Game and Fish Commission frowns highly on all grizzly shootings.
There's always an in depth investigation.
Rather than get cross threaded with G&F most people if they're having problems with a griz call them and let them trap it if it can work out that way.
 
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