Bear Protection for Backpacking Suggestions

[rodinal220]

If we are talking sidearms, then it better start with a FOUR,especially for brown bears.Shoot the most powerful hand cannon you can handle well.Rounds like 460 and 500 S&W are starting to get into rifle like performance .

Rifle I would want a 308/30-06 minimum with heavy tough bullets. 45-70 better.

Shotgun,12 gauge with slugs,preferably Brennekes.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

IMO your best options are: Do things in the following order.

1. Make noise to let the bears know where you are, and avoid them if you know where they are.

2. Use bear spray first, if in a group have two or more people use bear spray.

3. Have a gun at the ready if you can, as a backup to the bear spray. If in a group, have more than one gun at the ready.

4. The gun should be some sort of high power rifle. I'd personally not go below a 338 Win Mag, but would much prefer a .375 H&H. It should be loaded with hard cast bullets that will penetrate deeply and break bone. If you don't want to spend that kind of money, carry a 12 gauge loaded with slugs.

5. If you are intent on a pistol for convienience of carry, as I am, look at something in 44 mag or bigger. If you insist on a semiauto, don't go lighter than a 10mm as you said.

6. Since this seems to be what you want, I would highly recomend the S&W 460V. It is a 5" bareled 460 magnum, and with a proper holster, it carries well. I use suspenders to help keep my pants up since it is a 4 lb. gun.

The reason I recomend it is you can shoot 454 Casull and 45 Colt out of it which helps keep range time a little cheaper, but it is still pricy to shoot. The 5" bbl balances well. They are accurate guns, and you can lob a 325 gr hard cast bullet at about 1900 fps and that would generate about 2600 ftlbs of energy. Not bad for a revovler, and the versatility of cartridge selection makes it a do everything gun for me. 1900 fps is en estimate since 460 was originally designed for an 8 & 3/8ths inch bbl. It may be a bit lower but the performance is still great.

Also, if you can, have hearing protection very ready to diploy, and warn your companions. If you blow one of those off without protection, you WILL do hearing damage. I always say better deaf than dead though.

Bear spray is still the best first defense though.

 

[wlewisiii]

Pepper spray.

 

[Shadow 7D]

bear spray and paranoia will go MUCH further than overconfidence and a gun on your hip.

 

[Alaska444]

bear spray and paranoia will go MUCH further than overconfidence and a gun on your hip.

Why not carry both since neither is 100% effective.

 

[TrueTexan]

I remember when I was in Jackson Hole a few years age was told to carry Bear Bells and Bear Pepper Spray. Then was told how you can tell which bears are around by the scat they leave. If BlackBears the scat has berries and other vegetable matter, if Brown"grizzly" bears it has Bellls and smells like pepper spray.

 

[jimbo555]

Get a wide comfy sling and carry a pump action 12 guage,you will feel more protected and enjoy the hike more!

 

[Kendahl]

Sixteen years ago, a married couple were hiking in Kluane National Park in the Yukon. They were approached by an aggressive, young, male grizzly. A shot of bear spray drove him away, but he returned after a few minutes. After a few repetitions, they ran out of spray. The bear then killed the wife and badly injured the husband. Park officials later found and killed the bear.

Bear spray clearly worked in this situation, but only temporarily. The couple needed a permanent solution, in the form of a firearm, and didn't have one.

 

[wildcatter109]

thee 22 will penetrate twice what a 25 will. when they wont penatrate a 55 gal. barrel at 10', won't do much more than Pi$$ off any bear. I'll take a wheel gun anyday, 45 colt 340 grain cast, or if you can handle it a 4 3/4" model 83 454 FA, same Bullet.

 

[Alaska444]

Sixteen years ago, a married couple were hiking in Kluane National Park in the Yukon. They were approached by an aggressive, young, male grizzly. A shot of bear spray drove him away, but he returned after a few minutes. After a few repetitions, they ran out of spray. The bear then killed the wife and badly injured the husband. Park officials later found and killed the bear.

Bear spray clearly worked in this situation, but only temporarily. The couple needed a permanent solution, in the form of a firearm, and didn't have one.

Interesting but very sad story. I looked up from your references. The victim was a 32 yo female hiking with her husband. They encountered a juvenile bear weighing in at only 130 pounds.

According to 3 or 4 accounts on the internet, they tried to hide, then they dropped their back packs and then they played dead. The wife ended up dead for real.

I wasn't able to find any account talking about pepper spray in this attack. Not sure if it is in other reports. It even made the NY times:

http://www.nytimes.com/1996/08/04/world/after-fatal-mauling-in-canada-too-many-bears.html

With a juvenile bear and two people, they might have had a better outcome standing up to the bear. Certainly bear spray if they didn't have it, would have been a great deterrent to have. Standing your ground, having bear spray and a gun should have been the operative bear protection plan.

This case represents the bear encounter advice from a couple of decades ago that still is prevalent in many places. This case and others demonstrate why having lethal force as part of the bear protection plan must be part of a layered approach.

Thanks for the reference. Hopefully, that type of approach to a bear encounter will no longer be taught, but sadly it still is in many places. Playing dead should be a choice of last resort.

Canada's Parks Service suggests in a brochure titled ''You are in Bear Country'' that if attacked by a grizzly, ''playing dead -- curling up in a ball and covering your face, neck and abdomen -- may be effective.''

This is exactly what Christine Courtney, 32, the woman who was killed, and her husband Paul, 31, did when a grizzly pursued them on the Slims Valley trail of the Kluane Park, about 20 miles north of Haines Junction, gateway to the park, about a two-hour drive west of Whitehorse. . .

But Mr. Shelton, who teaches bear attack survival tactics, termed the advice about playing dead ''dangerous in a predatory attack.''

''They should have stood together with their packs on and made a lot of noise,'' he said.

 

[Kendahl]

I know about the Kluane attack only because my wife and I were in Whitehorse at the time. It was a stop on a vacation trip to Alaska and the Yukon. The attack was the top story in the local media for several days. That's where I heard about the victims' running out of spray.

The incident had particular significance for us since a five day horseback pack trip in Kluane starting from Haines Junction was next on our vacation. Also on the pack trip were the local justice of the peace, her adult daughter and the daughter's friend. The JP thought it ludicrous that our guide was forbidden to carry a firearm to protect her clients and herself.

The pack trip led to a big change in our lives. After returning home, we decided to take a few riding lessons so that we would be more than passengers on future trips. Years later, we are still horsing around.

 

[Alaska444]

I know about the Kluane attack only because my wife and I were in Whitehorse at the time. It was a stop on a vacation trip to Alaska and the Yukon. The attack was the top story in the local media for several days. That's where I heard about the victims' running out of spray.

The incident had particular significance for us since a five day horseback pack trip in Kluane starting from Haines Junction was next on our vacation. Also on the pack trip were the local justice of the peace, her adult daughter and the daughter's friend. The JP thought it ludicrous that our guide was forbidden to carry a firearm to protect her clients and herself.

The pack trip led to a big change in our lives. After returning home, we decided to take a few riding lessons so that we would be more than passengers on future trips. Years later, we are still horsing around.

Interesting, they followed all of the prevailing advice and had a terrible outcome.

I have been to both Haines Junction and Whitehorse. My mom drove us out of Alaska in the summer of 1966 and the car broke down near Haines Junction. My dad had a cousin in Whitehorse. We stayed there a couple of days then took a train to NY City and on to our destination. I have been up and down the entire length of the Alcan highway a total of three times.

Thanks for the update. Very sad and unnecessary death. Simply having a large knife could have aborted the attack and fighting together as a team, but playing dead is not always a successful tactic. It should only be a tactic of last resort, but never used in a predatory attack.

Once again, thanks for the update and glad you did well on your own trip.

 

[Shadow 7D]

You need to study this stuff, if you are going to do it, half-assed is just going to get you dead

Surprise Mama bear (DEFENSIVE) encounter, drop, play dead and take a few whacks, she wants her cubs safe and playing soccer with you is a way to get that

AGGRESSIVE bears, well that's different, play defensive, and get dead (eaten etc.)
stand your ground, and postering will give you time/ability to get AWAY and stay alive, you may even have to run it off, small bear like that they should have fought and challenged.

this is where PARANOIA comes into effect, it' means you LEARN and STAY ALERT.
thinking a gun or bells or spray is a majic talisman...
I would rather a paranoid guy with spray than a cocky guy with his '6 shooter'
cause the paranoid guy will live 4 out of 5 times....

 

[labman45]

bear gun

i'd also go the glock 20, simply because of the large magazine. hitting a moving bear, one that's moving at you, while you are most likely soiling yourself, is another matter. a second choice would be a .41 mag. i recently bought-i think they're remingtons-two boxes of 240gr .41 mag ammo. i'd have to think that they are in the same ballpark as the 240gr .44 mag. at least a step up from the normal 210gr you usually find for the .41.

 

[Shadow 7D]

THIS IS NOT A EQUIPMENT PROBLEM


THIS IS A MINDSET/SKILL SET PROBLEM

What GUN
is the wrong answer, because it's the wrong question
and once again the pointlessness of 'bear gun' threads....
pointless cause these are JUST an excuse for people to beat their chest and claim that the are 'HE-man of the woods' and that their XXXXX is the best gun......

stupid is as stupid does, and stupid in bear country mean you are prey...
YEAH, 99% of these come from places that have little to no risk from bears.....

 

[Dunkelheit]

Marlin 1895 and Glock 20.

 

[Alaska444]

THIS IS NOT A EQUIPMENT PROBLEM


THIS IS A MINDSET/SKILL SET PROBLEM

What GUN
is the wrong answer, because it's the wrong question
and once again the pointlessness of 'bear gun' threads....
pointless cause these are JUST an excuse for people to beat their chest and claim that the are 'HE-man of the woods' and that their XXXXX is the best gun......

stupid is as stupid does, and stupid in bear country mean you are prey...
YEAH, 99% of these come from places that have little to no risk from bears.....

Christine Courtney didn't have a mindset problem, she and her husband had an equipment problem, not even a hunting knife as a means of last resort. The attack unrolled slow enough that in this case, a gun would have provided definitive bear defense.

Mindset alone is not enough my friend. With frost on the ground today, call me from the frozen northern Idaho land. We have bears all around us. None of my friends venture out into the wilds without a gun or rifle, period. Just the way it is. Paranoia alone is not enough. a paranoid man in the woods without lethal defense measures should just stay at home and quake in their bed, or under their bed.

What is the best strategy? Safety in numbers true bear sense and both lethal and non-lethal deterrents. Pepper spray and a gun.

 

[Certaindeaf]

^
Very sad/unfortunate story.

I remember reading in the American Rifleman years ago of a fellow that killed a black bear for some reason with a 3" pocket knife. His dog was rope a doping it and he had to finally palm push the handle and all in to kill it. Obviously a memorable story.

 

[lobo9er]

bear spray and paranoia will go MUCH further than overconfidence and a gun on your hip.

these are JUST an excuse for people to beat their chest and claim that the are 'HE-man of the woods'

still sounding like the liberals in the city. Close to same argument as them anyways. Bear threads come up alot I maybe guilty, cant remember, but it usually seems like its new people here that haven't read through a thousand and it is a fair question, "what would kill a bear if I happen to stumble into a bad situation." It happens and not everyone it happens to smells like chips and salsa in their tent as you want us to believe. So why belittle the question from some one with 2 other posts? I like a sp101 when I hike be it solo, with friends or my wife. So that must mean by your answers I am chest pounding half cocked maniac, shoots anything that moves. hmmm How about leaving your lighter at home, you can always use the stick and shoelace method to start a fire if you need one. A gun IMHO is just another tool to have to be prepared.

 

[Alaska444]

^
Very sad/unfortunate story.

I remember reading in the American Rifleman years ago of a fellow that killed a black bear for some reason with a 3" pocket knife. His dog was rope a doping it and he had to finally palm push the handle and all in to kill it. Obviously a memorable story.

Several cases in the past where a knife helped fend off a bear. One case reported in one of the bear attack books I have read in the past talked about a man that killed a medium sized grizzly with a large hunting knife. He didn't look all too well in the end, but he survived and the bear died.

One recent case ended with a man trying valiantly to save his wife with a Swiss Army knife. He did successfully end the attack fighting the bear and stabbing it repeatedly, but it was too late for his wife, Jacqueline Perry. Bear spray and a gun most likely could have saved her once again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h70Pxh-pCWw

 

[tomrkba]

There seems to be much disagreement regarding firearms to use against bear. Does anyone have any stats regarding what firearms were used successfully or unsuccessfully?

The buckets are:

1) Handgun calibers:

10mm with hot hardcast
44 Magnum
454 Casull
45 Colt

2) Shotguns

20 gauge with certain slugs
12 gauge with certain slugs

3) Rifles

Almost universally accepted so long as the caliber is heavy enough.

 

[Alaska444]

One more account of a man killing a bear with a knife. He was motivated by the story of Jacqueline Perry and started carrying a 6 inch knife for protection. Shortly after, he was able to put that survival strategy to the test:

When the bear blocked Tilley’s path, and began advancing menacingly, Sam, his Staffordshire terrier, came out from behind his master, and placed himself between Tilley and the bear.

The bear grabbed the dog in his jaws, but thinking to himself “’You’re not going to kill my dog,” the horrified Tilley drew his knife, and advanced to the attack. Tilley leaped onto the bear’s back, and began stabbing. Though bitten on the hand, Tom Tilley killed that bear.

http://neveryetmelted.com/2006/07/23/55-year-old-ontario-man-kills-bear-with-knife/

 

[Certaindeaf]

It seems we have to consider bigfoot now since we all now know that the magnificent .25acp will slay the big bad bruin.
The last Les Stroud offering showed him recounting an experience he had up in Alaskaland. Certainly sounded beleivable and he was dead scared with his accounting. Maybe a hank of flowers stuffed in the muzzle of your 12 boomer to show your good will? never know

 

[AKMtnRunner]

There seems to be much disagreement regarding firearms to use against bear. Does anyone have any stats regarding what firearms were used successfully or unsuccessfully?

The buckets are:

1) Handgun calibers:

10mm with hot hardcast
44 Magnum
454 Casull
45 Colt

2) Shotguns

20 gauge with certain slugs
12 gauge with certain slugs

3) Rifles

Almost universally accepted so long as the caliber is heavy enough.

I really don't think there is much disagreement about what is best for bears. I think we can all agree that bigger is better. But we don't take 50 cal machine guns with us because it's not practical. And because we all have different styles, so is our view of practicality. It's a personal decision made for personal needs. Like every day carry defense, some don't mind carrying .44 mag and others carry a mouse gun because a 9mm is too big.

Bears have been killed by objects that may not kill a human, and these stories get a lot more attention for obvious reasons, so it's difficult to conclude adaquate bear defense equipment from reading the stories.

IMHO, the best equipment for anyone is spray and simply the most powerful firearm that they are willing to take with them.

 

[tomrkba]

I recall a show on TV where a hotel situated to watch the annual polar bear migration uses dogs to keep the bears away. Why not walk with two or three large dogs in addition to a firearm?