Certaindeaf
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You can say that again.
Bear Protection for Backpacking Suggestions
- Thread starter The Smitty
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Actually, the reason I put the quote by Tim Sundles, i.e. the "Buffalo Bore guy," is to show a deep contrast to the absurd bear management philosophies of the last few decades. In Anchorage, Rick Sinnott is punishing PEOPLE for bear encounters by issuing garbage fines instead of doing something about the out of control bear population in and around the Anchorage area.
If you look at a map of Anchorage, it is surrounded by Chugach state park where hunting bears was denied for 30 years. Now there is a token 10 permits given out with the hope that only 3 will be harvested every year. The people of Anchorage are outraged by this approach.
http://seattletimes.com/html/nationworld/2009205337_apusanchoragebears.html
In a previous interview, Rich Sinnott noted that Chugach is a bear factory that pumps bears into the system. Surrounded by three sides, Anchorage is the recipient of all of those bears. When I lived in Anchorage in the 1960's, a brown bear in the middle of the city would have been big news.
Today, the F&G of Anchorage and surrounding areas is treating the city limits as if it was an outdoor zoo where the residents WANT to see bears and moose and other wildlife inside the city limits. That is complete lunacy.
In light of that urban "zoo" mentality, TIm Sundles, the "Buffalo Bore guy," sounds much more sound than those yahoos do. In effect, we are now selecting for aggressive bears that will teach their cubs to be aggressive against people. Tim Sundles is stating we need to eliminate the aggressive bears so that the other bears remain afraid of man. If you think that is nuts, so be it, but I believe Tim Sundles has a lot more sense than Rick Sinnott and his minions.
BTW, a quick Google of Tim Sundles will give quite a few examples of his hunting trips. He is a very experienced outdoorsman and hunter. Lets stick to the facts even if you disagree with his statements especially since he is not here to refute false statements against him.
Lastly, Tim Sundles is a bit of local hero in the war against the Feds mismanagement of wolves. He has already tangled with the Feds which makes his statements even more remarkable.
http://www.boiseweekly.com/boise/one-spicy-meatball/Content?oid=932577
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Guillermo
member
I would bring my largest handgun, 44 magnum at least and this lady
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/black-bear-vs-angry-woman-defending-her-back-porch-guess-who-wins/
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/black-bear-vs-angry-woman-defending-her-back-porch-guess-who-wins/
Guillermo
member
heck...I might back her up!!!
The Anchorage bear problem sounds a lot like the Boulder, CO mountain lion problem a few years ago.
Great book that documents it: http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0393326349
Great book that documents it: http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0393326349
Cosmoline
Member
Oh it's not that crazy. I rather like the wildlife right here. It makes life more interesting. There needs to be a balance, as in all things. So long as the brownies are minding their own business they do well enough. It's their territory too. And mostly they're peaceable. And the moose pose no serious threat to anyone. It's best to keep things in perspective. Even in bad years Anchorage DRIVERS are exponentially more lethal than our wildlife! They're terrifyingly bad.
The two legged critters are almost always more dangerous, but not living in Anchorage any longer, all I have to go by is what is reported. Sorry, it sounds crazy to me to have grizzly bear inside the city limits and yes, there have been quite a few attacks the last decade.
When I lived at the top of O'Malley road in the 1960's, we NEVER saw bear inside the city or ever worried about them outside playing. In those days, the top of O'Malley road was out in the boonies. We had about 5 or six house in a mile or so of road.
What explains the lack of conflict in the 1960's and the increasing conflict with moose, bear and other critters today? We had plenty of moose but never any bear issues. We took no special precautions with garbage or even considered them at all. Is it that we are now in their home? Funny, they left the city to us in the old days. Sounds like they are invading us today in Anchorage because of an overpopulation spilling over from the Chugach state park due to a truly misguided F&G philosophy of game management.
Just saying, it sound crazy to not only allow, but promote that kind of potentially dangerous wildlife within the city limits. I believe it is just asking for trouble allowing them to become tolerant of man and habituated.
Sadly, Anchorage is not the only city that is being invaded by bears and other wildlife. Some places in New Jersey now have a bigger black bear problem than folks in Anchorage. Sorry, it just doesn't make any sense to me. We have bear all over the place here in northern Idaho, but for the most part, they stay away from the suburbs. Folks that live on the edge of the forests, well, that is what they choose. I am glad we don't have folks advocating to let the critters run around with us here in town the way they do in Anchorage. We get deer but the mountain lions and bear stay away. I am thankful for that since we have young grand children.
I respect your opinion, but shucks, I just don't agree.
Packing both a 44 (or larger) and pepper spray is not a bad idea. For years I packed both, but whenever a tussle in the brush would peak my interest...it wasn't the spray I reached for. My first reflex is to go for my Redhawk. For me to go for the spray first, would require hours of additional training.
Make sure its "magnum" spray and not the "derringer" kind you keep in a purse, or European man bag.
Make sure its "magnum" spray and not the "derringer" kind you keep in a purse, or European man bag.
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shinyroks
Member
Now, I don't live in an area with a lot of bear attacks, but have looked into the firearms for areas I hoping to work (was a geologist in gold/silver exploration). I actually found that my choice ended up being a 454 puma in a scabbard on my back or backpack. I load 405 WQ WW at about 1400 out of it, and have clocked the 320? grain Buffalo bore at 2300 fps out of the rifle. Funny thing is you get 11 shots out of a rifle that is actually lighter than a hand cannon, and I can get 4+ shots off in under 1.5 sec. with draw. Accurate at 12" target at 20 yds, and just as fast to draw as a pistol with practice.
Cosmoline
Member
But they give us an excuse to carry around large rifles and handguns!
Fair enough, can't argue with that.
My dad carried a 30-06 in his truck just about all the time when we were up in your part of the country. At least they still allow big guns like you say.
Take care.
fastest45ever
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epiphany!!!
I need to put gun rails on a DA or SA heavy caliber handgun. .475 Linebaugh, .500JRH, .500 Linebaugh Max/or mini.
Mount to the gun rail a cannister of high velocity bear spray. It needs to be a narrow cone, or better like that gel stuff they use for shooting BG's in the face.
You pull the gun, aim, fire the bear spray. If that doesn't do the job, the gun is already in firing position. It would work even better with a rifle, or shotgun.
I should have applied for a patent first.:banghead:
I need to put gun rails on a DA or SA heavy caliber handgun. .475 Linebaugh, .500JRH, .500 Linebaugh Max/or mini.
Mount to the gun rail a cannister of high velocity bear spray. It needs to be a narrow cone, or better like that gel stuff they use for shooting BG's in the face.
You pull the gun, aim, fire the bear spray. If that doesn't do the job, the gun is already in firing position. It would work even better with a rifle, or shotgun.
I should have applied for a patent first.:banghead:
AKMtnRunner
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- 190
In response to Alaska444's comments on the Rick Sinnott and the bear's getting into trash, it comes squarely down to responsible behavior if you live on the edge of town. Sinnott was issuing citations for people putting their overflowing trash cans out on the road a day or more before it was scheduled to be picked up. Of course that is going to attract bear activity. What bear is not going to check out the smell of yesterday's grilled salmon? That's sort of a survival skill of bears that can not be naturally selected out. Is it too much to expect the most affluent demographic part of the city, who can afford to live anywhere but choose to live on the border with the State Park, to put their trash out on the right day?
I'm not a F&G scientist, nor one that is heavily involved with wildlife management enough to have a strong opinion on the matter, but I can say this: there is no substitute for good bear sense nor responsible behavior. I prefer to expect these two qualities of humans before endorsing eliminating bears. Perhaps one day we will move to authorize open hunting on bears (and the crazy moose population across ALL of Anchorage) and maybe that is the solution. I don't know. All I do know is that we can go a long ways to prevent ill encounters before making a decision like that.
I'm not a F&G scientist, nor one that is heavily involved with wildlife management enough to have a strong opinion on the matter, but I can say this: there is no substitute for good bear sense nor responsible behavior. I prefer to expect these two qualities of humans before endorsing eliminating bears. Perhaps one day we will move to authorize open hunting on bears (and the crazy moose population across ALL of Anchorage) and maybe that is the solution. I don't know. All I do know is that we can go a long ways to prevent ill encounters before making a decision like that.
Dear AKMtnRunner,
It has been a long time since I lived in Anchorage, but I will tell you that I don't worry a bit about putting my trash out the day before they pick it up. We have a huge bear population and the woods are about 1 mile from our house. The deep woods that is on the edge of miles and miles and miles of northern wilderness. Yet, we have no bear problems at all in this area.
When we lived at the top of O'Malley road in the 1960's right in the middle of the boonies, no bear problems at all as well. Failing to understand the relationship between a hunted bear population and one that is not I believe is at the heart of the Anchorage bear problems. Just my opinion, but even Rick Sinnott is now talking about token hunting pressure on bears in Chugach. My goodness, 10 permits!! Yeah, that will really bring a solution.
So, once again, they are indeed punishing people with garbage citations for out of control bear behavior that they have created by failing to teach them the fear of man which is not hard to do. That is not wiping them out my friend, putting them in their place, absolutely. Until that happens, big brother in Anchorage will hand out citations to the people and do nothing about the real problem, over population of bears within the city limits. Sorry, just makes no sense to me at all and I pray to God that that mentality does not migrate down stream to us any time soon. I enjoy that bears are actively hunted in Idaho, at least the black bears anyway. At some point, they will need to start hunting the recovered grizzly population here as well, obviously in a controlled fashion. Just the way it is.
Let them have the woods, the cities and towns belong to us, pure and simple.
beag_nut
Member
I have to agree with most of the people who recommend revolvers, and bear spray. There are numerous youtube videos showing how well bear-deterrent works, simply because it is designed to, and to do it well. A revolver's reliability is beyond question (if a major brand). If that's how you want to go, learn how to be accurate against a moving (small - the head) target.
HOWEVER,
If you can find it in your library, read the compilation of the Lewis & Clark's Expedition authored by Stephen Ambrose something like 20 years ago. He makes a point of illustrating how the members of the party were COMPLETELY surprised (and almost destroyed) by how resilient and unstoppable the grizzly bears were. And they weren't city guys; most of the group had been soldiers in the Revolutionary War, and quite accustomed to shooting and killing.
If you go up against a brown bear you might stand a chance with most of today's available center-fire large caliber handguns. But grizzlies are something much harder to deal with. The recommendations for bear spray are quite valid.
HOWEVER,
If you can find it in your library, read the compilation of the Lewis & Clark's Expedition authored by Stephen Ambrose something like 20 years ago. He makes a point of illustrating how the members of the party were COMPLETELY surprised (and almost destroyed) by how resilient and unstoppable the grizzly bears were. And they weren't city guys; most of the group had been soldiers in the Revolutionary War, and quite accustomed to shooting and killing.
If you go up against a brown bear you might stand a chance with most of today's available center-fire large caliber handguns. But grizzlies are something much harder to deal with. The recommendations for bear spray are quite valid.
Some folks practice and prefer rifle to bear spray. Actually, DLP studies may support this approach just as much as the pepper spray studies support that approach.you claim that you can grab a rifle out of a scabbard, lever out 4 hits at 20 yds in 1.5 seconds? I say that your watch stopped, bud, to be nice about it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-AVr7gNmrU&feature=relmfu
Maybe not 1.5 seconds, but not bad at all. He did get the first shot off in that time frame. With proper loads, you may only need one good hit to stop the critter.
Cosmoline
Member
Rick has been retired for a few years, you know. And the people of Anchorage decide how to address wildlife here. So I'm not really seeing why this is such a big deal. It's just another way of approaching the matter, and it actually works pretty well. I'm also not sure where you got the idea there were only 10 bear hunts allowed in the Chugach. Hunting is more restricted in the GMU subparts near Anchorage's built-up area in the main part of the state park, but that's not really viable hunting area anyway. Far too many people are running around in there for safety. If you want Chugach bears in GMU 14 you just go a little bit further out and you're free to harvest one brown every few years and one black every year with no closed season in some cases:
http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/index.cfm?adfg=huntingmaps.bygmu&gmu=14
And go further out into the mountains into neighboring GMU's and they get more generous. To say the bear in the area aren't hunted is simply incorrect. The reason they keep coming is because the wilderness is a bear factory and their food sources--salmon and moose--are in the city. As long as garbage bears and their enablers are dealt with and the people use common sense, there's not much of an issue.
http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/index.cfm?adfg=huntingmaps.bygmu&gmu=14
And go further out into the mountains into neighboring GMU's and they get more generous. To say the bear in the area aren't hunted is simply incorrect. The reason they keep coming is because the wilderness is a bear factory and their food sources--salmon and moose--are in the city. As long as garbage bears and their enablers are dealt with and the people use common sense, there's not much of an issue.
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Dear Cosmoline,
As I have noted in a couple of prior posts, I don't live in Anchorage any longer so I can only glean what the situation is from what is in the news and print on the internet. Rick Sinnott may have retired after 28 years, but he is still very active in the bear debate in Anchorage and he is very active in writing about the situation. An interesting article he wrote a couple of months ago I believe belies his approach. It seems he is MORE concerned about keeping a thriving bear population with the Anchorage city limits than he is about the consequences of that many bears in an urban setting and the difficulties of habituated bears.
http://www.alaskadispatch.com/article/bear-population-growing-anchorage-alaska?page=0,0
The most interesting aspect of this article is the comments at the bottom which included the involvement of Rick Sinnott as well. I don't live there, nor vote there so my opinion is only my own, but shucks, like I said earlier, glad folks don't want to see bear running around town here in Northern Idaho. In the woods, yes, best running away from us, but in town, doesn't seem we have much tolerance for that. If that is the way you folks wish to live, so be it but it sounds nuts to me to protect a large bear population within an urban setting.
Once again, just my own opinion, but I am glad we had no bear problem at all when I was a kid in Alaska. Not sure what has changed since then, but we never considered them as kids running around in the woods behind our house at the top of O'Malley road. Sadly, that may not be very safe today, but it was nearly 50 years ago. Why??
Here is another article the next day by Rick Sinnott. The comments at the bottom of the page underscore a lack of consensus on bears in the city limits. I like the following comment:
http://www.alaskadispatch.com/artic...r-infested-some-residents-seem-think?page=0,3
I agree, aggressive bears should be shot.
http://www.alaskadispatch.com/artic...r-infested-some-residents-seem-think?page=0,3
I agree, aggressive bears should be shot.
I agree.... and believe they should all be hunted, even if its with a limited amount of tags. The reason they are aggressive is because they are not hunted.
I grew up in the NW corner of Montana. A place where a back road bike ride and playing in the woods was never a danger. This is not the case anymore. Between the cougars, bears, and wolves, one dares not lose sight of their little one. It's like a big game preserve, and it has cost Montanans hundreds of jobs. This corner of Montana has the highest in unemployment, but yet it's one of the richest in natural resources? The animals have more rights than the humans. If you have to defend yourself in the woods, around here, the motto is: Shoot, Shovel, and Shut-up... the three S's. If you don't you better have a body part in a bag on your court date.
Well this wandered off...
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