Beyond "a Gun for Protection"

[Kleanbore]

My grandfather kept a .32 Long revolver next to his bed, and his son in law kept a .45 Automatic under his pillow. When I reached adulthood, I followed suit; I had long been a "gun guy". Later, a friend's father decided that he wanted "a gun for protection". He acquired an Astra 400.

In more recent years, a number of friends bought handguns--"for protection". Few were "gun people". Those who pursued state CCW permits. as I did, fired them at a target or two. We know that more training and practice is a really good thing. Let's pull on that for a moment. When we go to the range, we know where the target is, and we intend to shoot it.

But when we leave the range--we do not intend to shoot at anything or anyone. We should never find ourself looking for "a threat" to serve as a target.

We have learned that we may draw, point, and/or fire our defensive handguns only when we have a basis for reasonably believing that we face an imminent threat of a deadly force attack. Not when we are startled, not when we are frightened, not when someone seems to be approaching more closely than we might like, and not when we think that something bad might be about to happen. We should also know that if there is any alternative at all to going for the gun, we should take it.

So-where can we go for some advice on how to gauge that worrisome situation correctly?

For starters, just off he top of my head, I recommend that people immerse themselves in the works of Massad Ayoob, Tom Givens, Marc MacYoung, and Rory Miller. Members will surely add to the list.

I hope this proves helpful.

 

[Shawn Dodson]

AOJP provides objective criteria for determining if the situation you face may justify the emergency use of deadly force in self-defense and/or the defense of other innocent persons.

A criminal aggressor must have or reasonably appear to have:

ABILITY - The ability to inflict grave bodily harm (e.g., the aggressor is armed or reasonably appears to be armed with a deadly weapon; you face multiple unarmed aggressors; an unarmed aggressor has an obvious, substantial advantage in physical ability and/or skill),

OPPORTUNITY - The opportunity to inflict serious bodily harm (he is physically positioned to immediately harm you),

JEOPARDY - the aggressor's hostile actions and/or words indicates that he intends to inflict grave or fatal physical harm and you are imminent jeopardy,

PRECLUSION - There's no other reasonable option immediately available to you except deadly force to stop the attack.

When the "attack potential" elements of ABILITY, OPPORTUNITY, and JEOPARDY are in place simultaneously, then you are facing a reasonably perceived deadly threat that may justify an emergency deadly force response.

 

[Kleanbore]

Very well put, Shawn, and very helpful.

 

[Kleanbore]

Shawn Dodson's post sets forth an excellent, excellent explanation of when the presentation of a deadly weapon would be lawfully justified--if the need arose.

The other side of the coin is about what proactive actions may obviate the possible need for going to the gun in the first place.

That's where the material I mentioned comes into play. The operative strategy for prevention has been described as ADEE--Avoid, Deescalate, Evade, Escape.

An oft repeated phrase is "don't go to stupid places with stupid people and do stupid things".

Back in 2008, before I had a CCW permit, and when I was planning to get one, a friend insisted on my taking him to a hardware store in a very questionable neighborhood. It was near Ferguson MO--before the notorious events there, but bad anyway, and after the French government had included it in a large area of St. Louis and St Louis County into which they advised their citizens to refrain from going. While my friend shopped, I saw a lot of iffy things going on outside.

I said to myself that I really didn't want to go back there unless I had a gun.

I realized not long thereafter that I shouldn't go there at all--that if there were somewhere that I wouldn't feel safe without a gun, I should avoid it, if at all possible.

 

[armoredman]

First step in winning a gunfight - don't get into one.
As someone who has spent over 22 years in VERY questionable areas unarmed, situational awareness is key.

 

[Kleanbore]

First step in winning a gunfight - don't get into one.

Amen to that!!!

 

[GEM]

I would suggest https://www.activeresponsetraining.net/ for a weekly compendium of useful information and searchable on various topics.

Also, if one could find legitimate, structured FOF training that is not just shoot'em ups but presents you with scenarios that take a variety of responses from verbal judo, fleeing to fighting - that's a good thing. Also legal ramifications. If you are near TX - I would recommend krtraining.com.

PNW - https://firearmsacademy.com/classes/overview

 

[Kleanbore]

I started this thread by mentioning relatives who kept handguns handy for protection in the house.

As it happens, I have had to bring out the gun on three occasions to dissuade violent criminal actors. The most recent incident occurred just under six decades ago. Very fortunately, no shots were ever fired.

For years, I was mentally conditioned to respond to a bump in the night by going to investigate the source, gun in hand. I mention this because I think that a lot of new gun owners think similarly.

I know better now. As my CCW class instructor put it in 2008, "let the threat come to you".

I hope this proves helpful.

 

[plainsdrifter]

Is this thread another chapter of Things to Not Do? LOL Just teasing.
By the tittle I thought it was about "other" weapons to carry, like a club or brass knuckles.
Last couple nights I had my driveway motion dectector go off at 2 am. I have three of them pointed at my truck since it won't fit in my garage. I keep tools in it, and most of the time I bring in the most valuable ones but sometimes I don't. So when the alarm rings(three different rings so I know which side of the truck the movement is on) I go out with my baseball bat and a hand gun.
Been lots of thefts and vehicles broken into out here. I'm about a mile outside of city limits and the crooks love the suburbs.,

 

[Kleanbore]

Is this thread another chapter of Things to Not Do? LOL Just teasing

No. It's an invitation for members to advise and coach newbies.

 

[Howland937]

I think we all have similar family members and friends/acquaintances. They have a firearm for "just in case", but it's so far removed from being at hand they may as well not have it. Add to that it's not loaded, ammo stored separately as those new commercials are wont to tell us is necessity...

Can't tell them anything. I gave up. I've come to terms with the idea that for those people, it's probably safer for them and everyone else to just keep on keepin' on. If they can't make sound decisions when it comes to having a plan, chances are they won't make sound decisions trying to execute a plan.

 

[Ethan Verity]

No. It's an invitation for members to advise and coach newbies.

Not entirely in line with the original post, but this just popped into my mind as some random advice for newbies...

Don't stage your home defense weapons at the front/back door!

I say this, because I know someone who actually does this... and I think it's somewhat common among people who don't give home/self defense realistic thought. I even saw some add recently for a shotgun wall mount, showing the gun mounted next to the back door... If someone does break in unexpectedly, at that very door, you have just lost all access to your home defense weapon... worse yet, you just armed them had they not already been armed! Keep your home defense weapons deep in the house, somewhere where you can retreat to. Not right at the door!

 

[TonyAngel]

I would first say, get training. I don't care if you've been shooting since you could walk, get training. The more training you have, the less likely it will be that you could be made to look as though you acted negligently.

Secondly, know your local laws. For example, is there a stand your ground statute or do you have a duty to retreat? Most self defense statutes, although articulated differently, say the same thing. Most usually revolve around acting on a threat of imminent death or great bodily harm to you or another. Where all of the trouble starts is in interpreting what is imminent. When a person draws a firearm and shoots someone it is based on their subjective assessment that the threat is imminent, but the standard at trial is whether the threat was objectively imminent. Would a reasonable person have thought the same way you did?

Man, that is one large gray area. If you tried the same set of facts to six different juries, the outcome would probably be similar to two guilty, two not guilty and two responsive verdicts of some flavor.

I guess what it boils down to is that if you ever have to do it, you'd better be pretty darned sure. Where I am, in south Louisiana, I've seen VERY few shootings where the shooter didn't at least get arrested.

 

[BLACKHAWKNJ]

"Owning a gun no more makes you a shooter than owning a musical instrument makes you a musician." Jeff Cooper

 

[Balrog]

I started this thread by mentioning relatives who kept handguns handy for protection in the house.

As it happens, I have had to bring out the gun on three occasions to dissuade violent criminal actors. The most recent incident occurred just under six decades ago. Very fortunately, no shots were ever fired.

For years, I was mentally conditioned to respond to a bump in the night by going to investigate the source, gun in hand. I mention this because I think that a lot of new gun owners think similarly.

I know better now. As my CCW class instructor put it in 2008, "let the threat come to you".

I hope this proves helpful.

Helpful, but not always applicable.

 

[Peakbagger46]

Very few shooters in southern Louisiana don’t get arrested? That seems odd unless “arrested” includes being detained in cuffs until LE figures out what is going on.

 

[ojibweindian]

Second the "don't go to stupid places with stupid people and do stupid things".

Another bit of advice is house/room clearing sucks. Oh, and lawyers are expensive.

From Paul the Apostle: "If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone." That's probably the best advice.