Big Bore Lever Gun recommendations

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Get a 45-70 Guide-gun.

Bullets for the .444 are (or were) .44 Mag handgun bullets.

You start out handloading at 180 grain, and can go up to about 300 or so due to limitations of the .444's rifling twist being optomized for 240's.

The 45-70 is just getting started at 300 grains, and can be loaded to 500+ grain bullets.

The .450 Marlin is just a belted 45-70 performance-wise, and ammo availibilty & price in out of the way places is going to be problematic.

rcmodel
 
+1 on the 444. Factory loads are somewhat limited, but if you reload, you can do some pretty amazing stuff.

Hornady designed their 265gn XTP-FP for the 444. The top I've seen so far is the 300gn.

You have a choice in the 444 of a "small-fast" 300gn bullet, or the 45-70 with a 500gn "big-slow" bullet. Please note I'm being facetious on both sides of the comparison.

Either chambering is more than qualified to knock down anything on the North American Continent.
 
I found the 444 to be brutal. so did my uncle. and my other uncle. and everybody I know who ever shot it. but we're all skinny people. (maybe it just needed a recoil pad)
 
To get the most out of the .45-70, you may want to look at the Ruger #1. The loads for that rifle are some serious Zombie Smackdown. (50,000CUP)

The Hornady manual lists loads that launch a 500gn round nose at 1800 FPS.
 
consider going for the 1895 cowboy, holds lots more rounds, and the longer barrel will give you added stability and velocity. Mine looks truly beautiful!
 
My vote would be for the .45-70 in a Guide Gun configeration. Packs good, a lot of ammo out there for it and bullet construction is, on the whole, better than a .444.
 
I'm going to take a look at a Marlin Guide Gun today in .45-70. It's some kind of limited edition (1 of 500) with a laminated stock but I'm not sure of the barrel length or whether it's stainless or blued. Also, I can't figure out which guide guns have the ported barrel. I've seen some (on GunsAmerica) with the 18-1/2" barrel that don't have ports and some that do so I'm not sure what's going on. :confused: Another confusing issue is the stock. Some seem to have a straight stock whereas others have a "pistol" grip stock. The lever is different two and I like the look of the curved lever that comes with the "pistol" grip stock.

:)
 
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I've seen some (on Gunbroker) with the 18-1/2" barrel that don't have ports and some that do so I'm not sure what's going on.

A few years back, we bought one as a 50th B-day gift for my FIL that had the port--I have heard that Marlin has since dropped the ported model.

I could be wrong on that, so check Marlin's current offerings maybe. The porting makes the stout little gun a bit louder and may drop velocity a bit (?). In my book, a minor difference.

Nice carbine, and 45/70 Gov. isn't nicknamed the 'sledgehammer' lightly--from what I've seen it is the king of versitility in big bore as .06 is in the .30 cal range. And both endure for solid, solid reasons; they work.
 
Usually I like stainless but I think that the blued Guide Gun looks better. Anyone here have the stainless version and really like it?
Click to expand...

I like the stainless simply because of the easier care.
And no, they no longer make ported models.



Now, if you want to scope it and you are OCD you won't like it because you won't fine a scope to match.

Me, I prefer to shoot them not fuss over the looks. Mine's in .45/70.

Another confusing issue is the stock. Some seem to have a straight stock whereas others have a "pistol" grip stock.
Click to expand...

Yuk. You can't get the Guide Gun length with the pistol grip stock unfortunately. I would MUCH rather have pistol grip than straight.

marlin.jpg
 
rcmodel and Neo-Luddite,
Thanks for the explanation ... I've been looking at Marlin's web site and gunsamerica.com (as well as Google searches) to get a better understanding of the Guide Gun and the porting (or lack thereof) explanation is very helpful. I still can't find any information on a Marlin Limited Edition Guide Gun with a laminated stock. The local gun shop owner simply told me that he has a Limited Edition Guide Gun in .45-70 with a laminated stock and it's serial number is 101 or something like that. He mentioned that the price is around $850 so I want to get some information first before I come home with it this afternoon. All I could find in Limited Edition Guide Guns is the engraved Whitetail version ... which sure is nice!!


Engraved limited edition 45-70

Whitetail Limited Edition in 45-70

Marlin's web site has lever actions in .45-70 with laminated stocks but those are the 1895XLR versions which aren't Guide Guns.

1895XLR

TexasRifleman, I like stainless for the reason that you mention and I'm not planning on using optics. I would install an XS ghost ring rear site though. I bought one for my .45 Colt Cowboy Limited and it's a big improvement over the OEM sites.

Apologies to the OP if it appears that I'm hijacking this thread ... certainly not my intention. Thanks for starting it ... it's helped me a lot.

:)
 
Yeah a Guide Gun length with a pistol grip is SO much in demand, I can't figure out why Marlin doesn't make one.

I read on gun forums all the time where people prefer that. Marlin doesn't seem to be listening for some reason.
 
Another vote for the 1895. Very accurate, quite strong, well made.

Another vote for .45-70. There are good .444 loads but little choice in good bullets.

I converted my GG to a pistol grip and for me personally the recoil handling is MUCH improved. Marlin definitely should be doing this - they do with the 24" barrels, so why they don't for the GG is a mystery to me.
 
consider going for the 1895 cowboy, holds lots more rounds, and the longer barrel will give you added stability and velocity. Mine looks truly beautiful!
 
Although I have a .45-70 levergun and no .444 Marlin, I will say there is more of a fun, nostalgic appeal in shooting a .444 MARLIN, a cartridge which is an extra extra long .44 magnum, and conjures up images of cowboys, Indians, horses, beautiful old rifles etc., vs. .45-70 GOVERNMENT, which does to a certain extent also, but with the word government in the name, you can't help but have your subconscious mind ask youself - how good could it possibly be? It conjures up more of an Army use rifle cartridge, which it was. Both conjure up buffalo hunts.

Ballistics between the 2? Meh, for 99% of intents and purposes, they're identical. If you want to hunt cape buff or engine blocks, AND you do not reload, then you'd want .45-70 to get the Garrett or BB loads.

One difference which is not really an advantage or disadvantage if you just take note of it, and adjust your choice to your purpose at hand, is that the .45-70 shoots .458 RIFLE bullets, whereas the .444 Marlin can be loaded with RIFLE or HANDGUN bullets, the latter of which are designed to expand at slower handgun velocities in .44 mag and .44 special. So, if for *some reason* you want to shoot varmints, then the .444 Marlin is a better choice - you can load up some high-vel pistol bullets for explosive expansion.

Texas Rifleman, nice looking rig there! :)
 
I will say there is more of a fun, nostalgic appeal in shooting a .444 MARLIN ... conjures up images of cowboys, Indians, horses, beautiful old rifles etc., vs. .45-70 GOVERNMENT, which does to a certain extent also, but with the word government in the name, you can't help but have your subconscious mind ask youself - how good could it possibly be? It conjures up more of an Army use rifle cartridge, which it was. Both conjure up buffalo hunts.
Click to expand...

Not for me!! That's kind of like comparing the .44 Remington Magnum to the .44-40 (.44 WCF). The .444 Marlin may be an excellent choice, but the .45-70 has WAY more history and nostalgia.

JMHO.

:)
 
I won't be able to see that Marlin Guide Gun until next week when the gun shop owner can bring it in but in the meantime I picked up 6lb of VihtaVuori powder (all that was in stock) ... 4lb of N120 and 2lb of N130 for $20/lb which is a good deal. I noticed that the VV reloading "manual" states ...

"These loads are to be used only in modern rifles like Ruger #1 or .45-70's chambered on Mauser type bolt actions.
They MUST NOT be used in old rifles with weaker actions like Trapdoor and old Marlin mod. 1895. The listed maximum loads do not exceed 30,500 psi."

Forgive my ignorance, but is the Guide Gun action a remake of an old style, or for the sake of reloading, is it considered a new model 1895 and therefore is safe to shoot 30,500 psi loads?

Thanks.

:)
 
My Hornady manual lists 3 tiers of .45-70 loads:

1. Trapdoor. Pressures under 25,000CUP

2. Marlin 1895. Pressures up to 40,000CUP. These loads are not to be used in the trapdoors or replicas of them.

3. Ruger#1. These loads go up to 50,000CUP. The only rifles listed in the Hornady manual that are able to work with such loads are:

Ruger #1
Browning 78
Wickliffe
Siamese Mauser Bolt Actions

It also states that for no reason should these loads be used in a Marlin 1895 or a Trapdoor.

"These loads are to be used only in modern rifles like Ruger #1 or .45-70's chambered on Mauser type bolt actions.
They MUST NOT be used in old rifles with weaker actions like Trapdoor and old Marlin mod. 1895. The listed maximum loads do not exceed 30,500 psi."

Forgive my ignorance, but is the Guide Gun action a remake of an old style, or for the sake of reloading, is it considered a new model 1895 and therefore is safe to shoot 30,500 psi loads?
Click to expand...

Your question is kinda tough to answer.

There is no "older model 1895" to my understanding. Marlin 1st introduced the 1895 in 45-70 in 1972, 8 years after the 444Marlin was introduced. Up until that time, the .45-70 was only available in older gun designs such as the Springfield Trapdoor and the 1886 Win Rolling Block which were limited to 25,000CUP.

My understanding is that any 1895 .45-70 should be able to handle loads that produce up to 40,000CUP. You must avoid loads for the Ruger #1 which climb to 50,000CUP.

If the VV manual is not clear, check another manual such as Hornady, Speer, or Lee.
 
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