Bill Clinton to Democrats: Don't Trivialize Gun Culture

[gunsandreligion]

Radiotom - This is a gun forum. I only brought the other issues up to illustrate how my feelings on the RKBA take precedence. Let's stick to guns. I promise to argue with you about other stuff over a beer some other time and place, but not here.

Best not to bring up those other views in a place where most people lean to the right. Its likely to have the unintended consequences of a thread jack, non gun based discussion, and a locked thread.

 

[Pointshoot]

This does illustrate one thing - that many people who consider themselves 'liberal' are also of the opinion that they should have the right to protect themselves & their families. Theyre voting with their wallets, and buying guns.

Personally, I've come to the place where I find labels distracting and counter productive. Too many times people replace their own thinking with what they think they must adopt in order to be 'consistent' with their label. "Dem", "Repub", "liberal", "conservative", "libertarian", etc.

If you support the 2A, great - we have something in common and can work together on that issue.

Thats also where taking people out shooting, offering advice & help to beginners, helping with safety instruction, etc is very powerful. You bypass the media and the opinions of the talking heads to be with people on a person-to-person basis. You give them more than 2 minute sound bites. They see that the Vast majority of people with semi auto rifles are their neighbors, and are absolutely of no danger to any innocent people.

 

[MachIVshooter]

Start talking about limiting the right of the People to own weapons and I become a one-issue voter.

As do many others. I do believe this was the point slick was trying to drive home. Only two groups of voters remember which rep voted how on gun control, and the anti-gun crowd is much smaller.

 

[CharlieDeltaJuliet]

No, by no means is he on our side about guns. He simply states it is usually political suicide. He just learned that gun owners, Democrats alike turned on him. There was a huge spike in the Libertarian and Republican converts....

I agree with MachIVshooter on this. Slick Willy has seen the people cling and band together to protect the right to bear arms. I believe a lot of different things, but they are all protected by my right to bear arms. "Shall not be infringed" implies to my right to protect my other rights and beliefs...

 

[Fishslayer]

Wow. Just wow. I'll have to give this one to Slick Willie. He obviously gets it.

Thanks for posting this most informative link.

IIRC nobody ever accused Komrad Slikwilly nor his wife of being stupid.

 

[CTPhil]

Best not to bring up those other views in a place where most people lean to the right. Its likely to have the unintended consequences of a thread jack, non gun based discussion, and a locked thread.

It's OK to be a left leaning, gun owning THR member as long as you know your place.

 

[Batty67]

Very good read. I have very mixed feelings about his statements and the article in general. But I have to admire Bill Clinton a little for actually learning how politically costly was his support of the 1994 AWB. I mean, he *gets* it and was trying to warn his fellow smug Dems.

 

[gunsandreligion]

It's OK to be a left leaning, gun owning THR member as long as you know your place.

that sounds harsh. I was just pointing out that the large majority of THR members probably leans the other way and therefore the likelyhood of it causing a offtopic discussion is higher. Either way your politics lean, its best to leave all nongun issues(to a certain extent) out of our discussion.
As to slick Willy, he has a good point. It is suicide to keep a small minority of americans happy and give the majority the shaft.

 

[JustinJ]

It's OK to be a left leaning, gun owning THR member as long as you know your place.

Please elaborate as to what that "place" is.

 

[CTPhil]

Apparently it is being silent while others tee off on liberals.

 

[Jeff White]

The author of that article is talking down to us. His whole premise is that if they just stop calling us names and making us mad and gently explain to us why we need to give up our semi-autos and standard capacity magazines, like one would talk to a difficult child, we will see the logic of giving them up for the sake of the nation and they can achieve their goal of banning them.

I for one am more angry with the condescending, elitist attitude then I am with their name calling.

 

[CTPhil]

I'm not sure who is talking down there, but the distinction to be made is that Clinton is talking about political strategy regarding getting re-elected, the ideology of gun rights doesn't seem to be part of his discussion.

 

[Jeff White]

You must have missed this in the article:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickung...se-who-disrespect-the-american-gun-culture/2/

President Obama should listen closely to the words of his predecessor and very seriously consider directly addressing his 2008 statement. He should be willing to show up before a group of pro-gun Americans in the heart of rural America and make his case with respect for the traditions of those who would disagree with him and a strong argument as to why his ideas are important to the nation.

To simply pretend that he never said what he said or imagine that millions of good Americans are not harboring the memories of the insult as they react to the latest effort to accomplish gun control, is, to say the least, counterproductive.

I want the President to succeed in his effort to rid society of weapons and accessories that are causing so much pain and suffering. But I recognize that this can only happen when a large number of those who see it differently are convinced that it is worth parting with an important piece of their own personal history and culture in order to make the nation better.

What Ungar is saying is that if they just stop calling us names and gently explain to us why we should give up our rights: "But I recognize that this can only happen when a large number of those who see it differently are convinced that it is worth parting with an important piece of their own personal history and culture in order to make the nation better."

 

[goon]

I vote Democrat at times, Republican at other times. This past election I voted Libertarian for president, Republican for most everything else. I lean liberal or libertarian on most issues, but I vote to protect the Second Amendment so that's why I voted for pro-gun republicans this time around.
I have never voted for Obama because of his "cling to their guns and their religion" speech he gave during his first campaign. It showed him to be a candidate who is only interested in serving the segment of the population he agrees with. A president has to get above that and be a leader for everyone, not just the people he likes.

And regardless of my political beliefs, I am writing letters to reps in defense of the Second Amendment and bolstering the ranks of pro-RKBA groups with my membership and my money. Clinton may not understand the motivation for this - which includes my military service, education, rural upbringing, and my introduction to Constitiutional issues through back issues of American Rifleman that my great uncle Henry (a WWII scout sniper) gave me as I was growing up. But Clinton does understand the divisive nature of gun control.

Again, I only mentioned the other issues to illustrate that the RKBA takes precedence over any other issue for me when it is being threatened, which always seems to be the case.

 

[JohnBT]

Here's how I look at Clinton's statement: It's not so much what he said, it's that he had to give them a talking to at all. It's a pretty sad state of affairs when the elder statesman of the Democratic Party has to send some of the party elite a wake up call.

Now we'll see what they do with Bill's opinion. Can they learn to be polite?

John

 

[6.5x55swedish]

What politicians and interest groups forget is that Gun Control is not a party issue. There are many of us here who are Democrat or vote Democrat, my self included, who are also gun owners. That is why gun control is a looser for politicians... it irritates members of their own base...

Lets not forget that there are also Republican's who support tight gun control... We recently defeated one in National Election.

 

[goon]

In addition to 6.5x55's comments, might I add that New York's Republican controlled state senate just helped pass the most restrictive gun laws in the nation?

 

[r1derbike]

Clinton was never and still isn't a friend to the 2nd Amendment. The article simply points out that he isn't stupid.

The really scary part of that article are in the comments section.

Bingo!

 

[joeschmoe]

I still have my Clinton era AR15, in orginal condition. Bought it new durring the Cosmetic Features Ban (aka AWB). Works great. So do the 20 and 30 round mags I bought back then.

AR15's have never been banned, and never will be.

I always kind of liked Clinton. He was dumb on his Cosmetic Features Ban, but he was an economic conservative who helped balance the budget and didn't balloon the Deficit.
I couldn't care less what he did to that girl with a cigar (as long as she was willing).


BTW, Congress writes the laws in this country. Not the President.

 

[larryh1108]

I agree. What Slick Willy is saying is that when you bring the rights of gun owners into the equation, you change the way they vote. He isn't supporting anything, just telling it like it is. He learned the hard way. Democrats, take notice.

 

[Somewhere in NM]

I don't agree with either party or any polititian on all issues, but since this a gun forum I won't say which is which, and I don't care about your views either. As gun owners, we need to hang together, regardless of our other beliefs. If there is any serious attempt to pass additional gun control legislation, even if it is not successful, I will become a one issue voter in the next election. Clinton is scared of people like me with this attitude, and other polititians should be too. We need to try to convince other gun owners that this important. Even if they disagree with a polititian on other issues, this is the time to look primarily at their record on gun rights. I plan to be especially tolerant of other gun owners who have different views from me on non-gun issues over the next two years! I have been writing my representatives at all levels every couple of weeks about gun rights and encourage others to do the same.

 

[mrvco]

Clinton is one of the savviest politicians in the last half of the last century. Look where he came from, and look how he still retains significance. That's not an endorsement, but the guy is smart.

...

I agree...
And he would like nothing more than to be back in the White House in 2016...
Hence his statement.

 

[Kiln]

I lean left on a lot of issues but gun control isn't one of them. Without getting too political, my respect for the second amendment is why I vote for the right.

Even pro gun Democrats don't see a reason for firearm ownership past hunting or sport shooting. Basically every Democrat I've heard from on the issue wants "common sense gun laws" in place.

 

[CharlieDeltaJuliet]

Kiln, meet one right here. I am old school Democrat. I mainly vote Libertarian, but have many local Democrats that I hold with the highest regard. My sheriff is a strong Democrat too, and helped fight for CCW rights in my state. The old blue dog variety. I cannot see any reason for EVER infringing on gun ownership. I am not alone either. The south offers many of us still. We do not think gun rights are free enough. The only common sense law I want, is for the government and state to abide by the same laws it would have it's citizens. I am talking about what type of weapons and restrictions. The government will never restrict their weapons, so why should I.....

 

[tnelson31]

Exactly. I generally support protection of the environment, equality for homosexuals, legalizing or decriminalizing marijuana, and women's rights to their own bodies. I will support those things if I can.

But I will toss that all aside if guns are an issue in an election. The Second Amendment gives the rest of the Bill of Rights its teeth. Guns are the issue that drives me to write letters and contribute money. Start talking about limiting the right of the People to own weapons and I become a one-issue voter.

+1 million bajillion