blackwater in NOLA

[Burt Blade]

Armed men hired by liberals are security guards. Armed men hired by anyone else are

EVIL! BAD! No! No No! Must make go away! Nooooooo!

 

[akodo]

john Q security guard guarding Best Buy, the football stadium, or Mr Rich's Mansion, all have one thing in common, they are there tied to the lawfull owner of that property. He allows them to be there, and he can send them away, and they cannot do anthing when off of his property.

John Q security guard hired by a government to patrol the streets and arrest people who is NOT a duely sworn law officer- whole different ball game.

 

[joab]

John Q security guard hired by a government to patrol the streets and arrest people who is NOT a duely sworn law officer- whole different ball game.

The government does not employ any street patrolers with powers of arrest that I have ever heard of.

The Frank in the article has been assigned to a static post. That means he cannot leave the compound that he is guarding

 

[akodo]

one of the acticles posted talks about them being deputized by the govenor.

also let me clarrify. I am not against having armed men watching your back as you set up pumps or bring in supplies or what-not. I've got no problem with people wielding firearms to defend their homes, or hiring extra people to do the same.

however, these guys when off the private property of their employers, are NOT law enforcement officers, no matter what magic wand the govenor decides to tap them on the shoulders with.

They should be treated the same as the 12 guys on 5th and Lincoln who are out patrolling in shifts with a pair of milsurp mosin-nagants.

 

[Commissar Gribb]

Not the governor in person, but I saw the state police chief (on TV) swearing in some Calif Hwy Patrol guys. That's not parish government.

ooh CHiPs!

I wonder if they'll make some new episodes about NO.

 

[joab]

openly patrolling the streets of New Orleans. Some of the mercenaries say they have been "deputized" by the Louisiana governor; indeed some are wearing gold Louisiana state law enforcement badges on their chests and Blackwater photo identification cards on their arms.

It was from the least credible article posted, actually the most noncredible of the articles posted, taken from one of the most "Say Anything to Bash Bush" sites on the internet reprinted from the "If It's Bad Blame Bush" Democracy Now web site

Forgot to add IMHO some where in there

 

[chopinbloc]

okay, i posted the whiny article from common dreams because i thought most folks here could read between the lines and pick bits of truth from the commie slant. apparently, some people will believe anything they read. personally, i think it is highly unlikely that blackwater has any contracts with any government organization in relation to NO. what bothers me is that, not only are people being disarmed wholesale without reason, but there seems to be a double standard. if you are on the clock the cops leave you alone and let you go about with some really cool gear. if you are not employed by anyone and are simply trying to protect your loved ones, they'll take your old 12ga SxS. it's bad enough to confiscate legally owned property necessary for the protection of human life, it's even worse to put out the message that rich folks property is deserving of armed protection, but the peasants' lives are not.

edit: gonna have to send a copy of that one to my stepmom. good news is, she seems to be coming around to the concept of self reliance. i'm gonna get to visit with dad and stepmom while i'm on leave so i'll have to take 'em out to the range. maybe i can convince them to get a couple aks.

 

[Willyboi]

HAHAHA...Good point!.. I took it as "Blackwater dropped Universal Soldiers in N.O.??? OMG We're all going to Die!!"....hahahaha

Thanks for clearing that up!

 

[joab]

i think it is highly unlikely that blackwater has any contracts with any government organization in relation to NO.

The problem is that it is not unlikely, it is actually common practice at least in the FL counties I have worked in.

Every courthouse(after hours), admin blg, museum,public utilities bldg, has private security firms acting as security. Even the airports hire them
Some judges have personal armed security officers assigned to them during business hours.

The writers of the stories know that or should if they research their articles just a little.
We just call them security companies or rent a cops.

Most are either ex military, ex LEO, or college kids

Like with most of the hysteria inducing stories they produce their is enough truth that it can't be totally dismissed but incredible enough that most intelligent people who do not have knowledge of this practice will dismiss it as propaganda.
Which give them the opening to call you out as either a liar or state apologist


Sometimes what they do is calculated to sound like idiocy to catch to catch you off guard.


Incoherent rambling , I know But I'm late for work

 

[Master Blaster]

Blackwater mercenaries are some of the most feared professional killers in the world and they are accustomed to operating without worry of legal consequences.

First off the Blackwater guys and other hired security are not mercenaries. Mercenaries are soldiers hired to fight a war as soldiers, and their main job is either training troops or killing the enemy in a war. They go into battle to shoot and inflict casualties on the enemy for whomever hired them.

The job of private security firms like Blackwater is entirely different. They are providing PROTECTION for their employers. Protection of property and protection of life. That means they are trying to AVOID shooting and AVOID property damage, by using tactics of avoidence and by serving as a deterent.
Their job is to AVOID violence not inflict it so they are not mercenaries.

If you were to ask a Blackwater employee what his measure of success is he would tell you that success means he did not have to fire his gun, no one was hurt, and no property was damaged.

 

[CombatArmsUSAF]

Plain and simple I've worked with these guys in iraq and yes they do have a few navy seals and rangers etc.. but the large majority of these guys are ex MP's. They are really not all that special. Definitely not anything close to the article. They are just a few guys that are crazy/greedy enough to go put their lives at risk for roughly 150,000 in tax free dollars.

I am thinking about getting out and working with them as an armorer.

 

[KMKeller]

Also, a lot of the guys blackwater is pulling together for NO are local NC law enforcement who have vacation time to burn. Not a bad stint if you can get it. Not all operators or MPs, just short term hires to fill the billet.

 

[Checkman]

Not only are the Blackwater guys NOT mercs they are not hired killers. Jesus. :banghead:

 

[SamlautRanger]

Blackwater has a pretty intense background check and screening process before hiring anyone. Most of the BW guys I knew are very professional. I get really pissed off when I see Ex-American military being labeled as mercenaries, that are doing security work in Iraq or NO. They are not mercenaries, but hired out in Iraq as contractors for the US government. They are proud americans who are serving the US and putting their lives in harms way and trying to earn a decent paycheck like everyone else to support their families back home. The US government has decided it is better to contract out security forces from private compaies, than to deal with the hassle of hiring full time employees to provide for instance Diplomatic Security overseas. Makes perfect sense. To call them mercenaries is an insult, and is a label that the uneducated on this matter, liberals, or wannabees would use.

 

[MudPuppy]

I think it's splitting hairs. The name "Merc" has been given a negative label due to the media in the same way being involved in a "militia" is now considered by the mainstream to be negative.

They're professional soldiers hired out, not by a government, for pay. While perhaps not "technically" mercs according to the strict definition, that's pretty much the impression of what they are. However, I don't have a problem with these guys or what they're doing at all--as long as they follow the law and behave professionally and honorably (which by all accounts I've seen and heard, these guys set the STANDARD).

If you think a Blackwater operator and the security guy at K-mart are the same, then--and I may be at fault on this--but you've lost me.

Main thing is, these guys are civilians. And if they're allowed to keep their firearms in NO, then the other legal civies have the same right.

And if it is a freakin' MANDATORY evacuation, get the reporters on the first bus/truck/donkey out of town too.

 

[sturmruger]

I have a lot of respect for the Blackwater guys. They see a need, and work to fill that need with their services.

If there is anywhere in the country that stuff needs to be gaurded right now it is in NO. I can't think of a better place to send a bunch of seriously armed blackwater guys.

 

[cowboybobb693]

Mudpuppy. This is the point that I was trying to make. Both groups are in the same category, they are ARMED SECURITY WORKERS, not hired killers.
The Blackwater guys usually have a better backround for this type of work than your average " Barney Fife" type guard but they are both employed to guard property, people etc... The point wasn't lost, I just may not have made myself clear in my 1st post when comparing the two.

 

[grampster]

Heck, A couple of retired leo friends of mine do some plainclothes security for Pinkerton. They just called them and one went to Mississippi. FEMA is paying the freight at about $600.00 a day.

We had a front page article in the Grand Rapids Press about a Blackwater employee that is a retired Kentwood, Mi. leo. He's been to Iraq twice and A'stan once. He talked about being on patrol and finding what appeared to be murder victims. One was in a dumpster, one was stabbed, one was beheaded and another beaten to death. He'd been featured before when he went to Iraq.
He's in it for the money and the rush.

 

[buzzcut]

"mer·ce·nary: A professional soldier hired to serve in a foreign army"



.

 

[chopinbloc]

roughly 150,000 in tax free dollars.

while this isn't exactly germane to this argument, it's only the first $80,000 that's tax exempt. at least that's the deal for the raytheon contractor i talked to. can't imagine it would be different for another company.

also, although i chafe at the word "mercenary" as applied to blackwater employees, the broader definition of the word applies. the word is often used to indicate anyone who sells their skills or is willing to work for anyone if the price is right.

 

[c_yeager]

John Q security guard hired by a government to patrol the streets and arrest people who is NOT a duely sworn law officer- whole different ball game.

Purely out of curiousity, how is this different from John Q Citizen hired by a government to patrol the streets and arrest people? They become a sworn police officer as soon as the state decides that they are. This is a power that we have granted the state.

 

[Thin Black Line]

Ok

Blackwater in US = Security Guard
Blackwater Overseas = Mercenary

 

[SamlautRanger]

Again:

You are not a mercenary, when you are a US Citizen that is working under private contract for US Dept of Defense, US Dept of Justice, US State Dept., etc.. in fighting against the war on terror abroad.


And as a side note. Tax exemption is only for the first $80,000 in regards to Federal Income tax. And that is only if you stay out of the USA for 330 days within a 365 day time period. You still additionally have to pay the Soc Sec/Medicare tax on your entire salary. Also, depending on your state and county of residence have to pay those taxes.

 

[Lonestar.45]

I don't like the idea of the state or local govt. hiring mercs to do what our local police and Natl Guard are paid to do, to be sure. They shouldn't be allowed to make arrests or enforce laws at all.

That said, if by chance you were one of the millionaires in NO whose homes/businesses were in danger of being ransacked by the roving gangs of looters, wouldn't you pull out all the stops and hire some professionals to take care of your place(s)? It's not like you'd be relying on your hi-tech security systems or calling 911 anymore. It sucks that the average person can't afford to do that, but then again, the average person wouldn't have multiple buildings/businesses worth millions to protect all by themselves with just a shotgun. I bet the homes and businesses of the really wealthy are viewed as big fat targets, drawing lots and lots of unwelcome visitors.

 

[Thin Black Line]

Sam,

When they put on a uniform; are subject to UCMJ, the laws of
the foreign countries in which they operate (such as Iraq), and the
Geneva Convention, then I won't call them mercs. By definition, it
also doesn't matter who pays them when they're operating in a
foreign country. *History* will see them, like the Landsknecht,
as "mercs." Or, Executive Outcomes for that matter....

Speaking of history, we can use this as a springboard for further discussion
on what constitutes a "merc" since it seems very similar to what is
done today: http://www.free-definition.com/Landsknechte.html

So, intead of Emporer Maximilian, we have President or Prime Minister
(insert current officer holder of Country X here) doing it.

I'm not putting a moral or value judgement on what (insert PC name
here) do. You're more than welcome to continue earning your living as
a (insert PC name here).