"Blackwater lacked permits for dozens of automatic weapons"

[yesit'sloaded]

Blackwater is a scary bunch of dudes. Why is no one questioning why they were in NO after the hurricane. They have no more authority to be brandishing weapons on US soil than you or I do. What happens in the sandbox is different. They do have a reputation as cowboys, but as noted before they have no obligation to the American people as our troops do. A buddy of mine who got back last year from a tour said this doesn't surprise him at all considering they shot at anything that moved.

 

[Gunnerpalace]

We had a former Blackwater guy in charge of Palisades Nuclear plant here in MI but even though he did a lot of good (he started up the nuke plant SWAT teams) he self-described himself as a "one-man death squad".

 

[jaholder1971]

Some of Y'all here have been drinking the Moveon.org Koolaid on Iraq, the War on Terror and big corporations.

Iraq's a war. The U.S. is at war against terrorists in Iraq. Sometimes the war gets a little dirty. Deal with it!

 

[TEDDY]

????

having a son who did contract work in Irag and Columbia SA I told him to get a gun.he ended up with an M16 and 9 mm.where do you you think he got the 16 it was issued to him.sounds to me like the gov is covering its ass because of the Irag complaints.its more dangerous to be a friend of the US than be its enemy.and some of you are a**.I hate to say it but I would not want you in back of me.in 1934 the tax was put on mg "because you cant ban them under the second amendment but you can tax them under the commerce clause"thats what the gun laws are based on.you steped into the IRS office paid the $200 and went out with your paper work, no investergation no background checks.in 1968 it all went down hill when the gun owners said it does" not affect me" only those "what do you want one of those mgs for?
what do you need an assault rifle for? I was there when you could walk into a store and buy any thing.$50 for Tompson.20mm finnish anti tank rifle for $100 and ammo $1.00 rd.springfields for $15.1917 for $7.50.45 for $18.
and the gun owners let it all go.:banghead:--:banghead:--:banghead:

 

[I LIKE IT!]

Iraq a war? LOL

Iraq is just buisness($$$/Oil) as usually with a PC twist(Terrorists).

I'm not condeming the "war" or anything but it's more of a play at this point.

Wake me up when the everythings on the table.

 

[alsaqr]

"An overwhelming majority of people were mouthbreathing the "let's roll" mantra when we went in and didn't care how or why at the time, not to mention calling anyone like me who railed against the invasion a commie.
Now, years later, we have undeclared war draggin on and we want to get picky about the contractors? Gimme a break. The American people got what they asked for in the drive thru."

"So Blackwater has a few untaxed full auto weapons. So their operators are sniping Maadi patrols on Youtube. So their men are well paid. So what?"

Yep, we have lots of sideline cheerleaders and other no action folks. We have all those red blooded war hawks who are content to have females serve in their place. The US hires Blackwater and other armed security folks in Iraq because the military was cut to the bone in the 1990s under Clinton. Clinton and nearly all the Republicans in congress at that time thought that it was a good idea to eliminate eight US Army divisions.

Strangely enough, Rumsfeld and the rest of the white house bunch did not want a bigger military.


Retired US Army M/Sgt.

 

[0007]

TEDDY - I remember those days also. "Ye Olde Hunter's Lodge"

 

[LAR-15]

Looks like this thread is getting too political.

 

[AndyC]

*yawn* Not that tired old Katrina photo again. Want to see what it really looks like without the cropping?

New Orleans SWAT police armed with machine guns patrol the downtown area. Reuters photo by Rick Wilking

©2005 San Francisco Chronicle

yesit'sloaded - read this

6. Mercs collect $30K a month for low risk missions. (and get to go home whenever they want).

And you know it's low-risk how, exactly? Sounds more like sour bloody grapes to me. Edit: pardon me - I thought you were speaking of current missions, not a "what if".

As for the ex-BW "one-man death squad", he sounds like a legend in his own mind.

Back on-topic - if they screwed-up on their paperwork, nail them like any of us would be nailed.

 

[SilentArmy]

The vast majority of Blackwater personnel are former military! Sure, they are scary, like a boy scout troop with a GUN CLUB charter! I spent 13 yrs serving for "God and Country" and when I got out you can bet that crisp dollar bill that I considered going right back over there to make in a month what I had in a yr! The only critics of the situation in Iraq are those who do not know what it takes to get a job done! If it requires torturing detainees for information or killing civilians then that is exactly what you do! My true heroes are the Low ranking individuals that "take the bullet" and do the time for these so called war crimes so that the media attention can be redirected and we can go back to Doing what is necessary to get the job done! If you haven't been there, **** about it because you just don't have so much as a clue.
As far as presence in our country after a disaster, If it was Just Blackwater then Those of you that were NOT there "brandishing weapons" to prevent looting and crime should be ashamed and go put some more salve on your Meow!

 

[Frog48]

As for the ex-BW "one-man death squad", he sounds like a legend in his own mind.

Exactly what I was thinking...

 

[Outlaws]

The only critics of the situation in Iraq are those who do not know what it takes to get a job done! If it requires torturing detainees for information or killing civilians then that is exactly what you do!

If you haven't been there, **** about it because you just don't have so much as a clue.

Everyone should read that again.

So since I haven't been there, I am not allowed to speak of war policies. But since you haven't worked for Blackwater, you can't speak about who they are or what they do. And since you still have a head, I assume you haven't been tortured, so you can't speak about that garbage either.

BTW, was it WMDs or terrorists that we...excuse me, you... went into Iraq for? Or a mixture of both based on what month it was?

As far as presence in our country after a disaster, If it was Just Blackwater then Those of you that were NOT there "brandishing weapons" to prevent looting and crime should be ashamed and go put some more salve on your Meow!

What does a government hired mercenary force have to do with citizens protecting their own neighborhoods? And who said citizens shouldn't?

 

[yesit'sloaded]

Andy, I read it and it doesn't change my opinion at all. They are a private company, unlike the police, national guard, and other agencies that I pay taxes to fund. I don't care if they carried pink black powder revolvers. The fact remains that they were hired to act as an armed force on US soil. That is definition of a mercenary. Duty not to God and country but to the almighty dollar.

 

[SilentArmy]

Your knowledge is limited to what the media feeds you. You have a right to speak of war policies because I have been there! Easy to monday morning qaurterback anything from your La-z-Boy recliner after watching the evening news!
The blackwater element in our area was considered dangerous to themselves and others but they are there for money because you can't find a man raised to believe in God or country these days so you must wave the almighty dollar to bring in the leftovers! Who will you blame for the fact that your kids don't have a country to fight for?

 

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

Were they operating on public property, or within their employer's property? Cause if it's the employer's property, BW providing security is no different than you defending your home with an 870 or 1911. If the guns they were using were legal, and they were doing so on the private property of a group that wanted them there, who cares if they were operating in New Orleans?

If they were patrolling in public, than they should be subject to whatever brandishing laws the rest of us have to follow. Being paid by the government is not the same thing as being in government service. The People, as a whole, hire police and military to do those kind of jobs in public. If the members of BW want to do the same, they should formally enter government service as members of the military, or some level of police. If they don't and remain private contractors, they have the same rights (or lack thereof), concerning weapons possession, brandishing, and use as any other private citizen.

 

[Outlaws]

Your knowledge is limited to what the media feeds you. You have a right to speak of war policies because I have been there! Easy to monday morning qaurterback anything from your La-z-Boy recliner after watching the evening news!

I trust the news? I don't think you have seen enough of my posts yet.

The blackwater element in our area was considered dangerous to themselves and others but they are there for money because you can't find a man raised to believe in God or country these days so you must wave the almighty dollar to bring in the leftovers!

Tell that to my friends who joined up shortly before and after 911. They all wanted wanted to serve. When 911 hit they were fired up. Then Iraq came and it was a split between them, a couple wanted to go and a couple questioned why....but they still went.

Who will you blame for the fact that your kids don't have a country to fight for?

Foreign policy makers. Iraq had nothing to do with the "war on terror".

 

[helpless]

So when the war is over and these guys come home... Will Blackwater close it's doors?

Tinfoil hat on:
No, they will be here patrolling your streets just like during katrina.

Wow I feel super safe now!

 

[.41Dave]

If it requires torturing detainees for information or killing civilians then that is exactly what you do!

You can just see a bunch of Al-Qaeda terrorists grouped around a PC in some cave nodding in agreement as they read this.

So it's ok for us to be terrorists?!

Why do some folks have so much trouble understanding that terrorism is terrorism, no matter what side you claim to be on? Satan is happiest when he is on BOTH sides, guys.

 

[doubleg]

Everyone wants to win the war but no one wants blood on their hands. I say we re enlist the draft and send all these idiot self righteous politicians and lawyers who put our soldier behind bars over to the middle east to fight.

 

[jeepmor]

Ken Cashwell...., I honestly thought he'd have known better than to screw with the ATF.

I'd suspect he was doing his job, and if he made any waves, he'd be let go and someone else would take his place. I see this type of thing ALL the time when ethics and legalities get blurred due to people above the consequence level demand things happen. Granted, none of the stuff I see is related to firearms, but I see this type of ethical dilemma dumped in the underling's lap constantly. Good scapegoat methodology. Some executive will claim he gave the order, but he was not responsible for the legal semantics, his underling was. The underling had to get a job done pronto or risk losing his liveliehood.

Everyone wants to win the war but no one wants blood on their hands. I say we re enlist the draft and send all these idiot self righteous politicians and lawyers who put our soldier behind bars over to the middle east to fight.

I'll vote for that.

 

[Citroen]

War is War -

Unlike many voicing their opinions in this forum, I actually lived through World War II - and I remember the newspaper stories - Flash - We had NO television news - the news media guys with the troops were real heroes and they supported the effort and the troops - some of them even picked up a weapon on occasion and joined in the fight.

You can argue all you want about whether this is a "declared" war or a "police action" but when the bullets are flying what YOU call it matters not.

JaHolder, you got it right. Blackwater was hired by our government to do a job and they are doing it pretty damn well. You don't prevail against a terrorist group by "playing nice" and you won't win in a gun fight without killing the enemy.

If the Associate Press and the New York Times do a hatchet job on someone or some company, probably that person or company is doing what should be done.

As far as I am concerned, I would rather be in the company of Blackwater personnel than people that think cutting off the heads of civilians is great sport and good video footage.

John
Charlotte, NC

 

[Autolycus]

What about the people who simply just shoot at civilians?

 

[AndyC]

IMO, anyone shooting at unarmed, innocent bystanders should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law - a few problems, though:

1. There isn't one, and that lack is something to which I'm bitterly opposed. American contractors, I'm sorry to say, have the reputation of being cowboys because some of them are constantly starring in their own little movies in their own minds. Some of those boys need to stop watching cheap Vietnam movies and grow up - do the job with no muss and no fuss.

2. Define civilian; I haven't yet shot at an insurgent who was wearing a uniform.

3. Videos on YouTube show rear-gunners in action - most of their actions I agreed with, on some I was unable to reach a conclusion (in fairness, there simply wasn't enough information) and 2 with which I definitely disagreed. Problem is, everyone goes "Oh, lookit the nasty man shooting at civilians in the Mercedes" or whatever - with no clue and no experience to make that judgement.

Andy, I read it and it doesn't change my opinion at all. They are a private company, unlike the police, national guard, and other agencies that I pay taxes to fund. I don't care if they carried pink black powder revolvers. The fact remains that they were hired to act as an armed force on US soil. That is definition of a mercenary. Duty not to God and country but to the almighty dollar.

So we should get rid of all armed guards in this country, then? All armed guards are mercenaries? That's over-simplifying things, don't you think? A bit like banning rifles because of how they look, wouldn't you agree?

 

[yesit'sloaded]

In that picture they clearly are brandishing weapons on a public street in a city in the United States of America. I could care less about what they do in Iraq as that is not US soil. If they want to fight for money, thats their moral problem, not mine. I however, will not tolerate them breaking our laws in our country when they are nothing but civilians brandishing weapons in the street like thugs. If they want to brandish weapons like that they can join the National Guard, police, or another US government agency that taxpayers fund and control.

 

[WildeKurt]

Scary

Blackwater operating in Iraq as a US contractor, not under the military justice code or any civilian justice code is scary enough. When they begin operating inside the US in the same fashion that's like something from from a bad science fiction movie. I've heard hear and elsewhere about Blackwater operating in New Orleans. Will our government abdicate it's responsibilities further in the pursuit of profit?

Interesting vid here, BTW: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqM4tKPDlR8

Yes I know the Nation is a liberal rag. But some of us so-called liberals believe in the 2nd amendment.