"Blackwater lacked permits for dozens of automatic weapons"

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Any better coverage besides this one article?

Sep 22, 2007

U.S. probes Blackwater weapons shipments

Government looks into possible smuggling to Iraq

Joseph Neff, Staff Writer

The U.S. government is investigating whether private military contractor Blackwater USA, blamed for the deaths of 11 Iraqis in Baghdad on Sunday, has been shipping unlicensed automatic weapons and military goods to Iraq.

Two former Blackwater employees have pleaded guilty in Greenville to weapons charges and are cooperating with federal officials investigating Blackwater, based in the tiny town of Moyock in North Carolina's northeastern corner.

Blackwater, which guards the U.S. ambassador and other State Department personnel in Iraq, had its license to operate in Iraq suspended this week after Sunday's shooting at a busy Baghdad intersection. Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki has said he favors barring the company permanently, calling the shooting "cold-blooded."

The case has been forwarded to a magistrate to determine whether criminal charges should be filed, an Interior Ministry spokesman said Friday.

Blackwater has said that the contractors were fired upon and were returning fire.

The State Department relies on Blackwater to protect its employees. The company deploys about 1,000 contractors as bodyguards for the U.S. ambassador and other diplomats in Iraq.

Blackwater declined a request for an interview Friday.

The investigation into Blackwater's weapons is noteworthy because Congress and the Iraqi government have criticized the company and accused it of acting with impunity. One of its contractors, for example, shot and killed an Iraqi vice president's security guard on Christmas Eve in Baghdad. Blackwater sent the man back to the United States and fired him. He has not been charged in the U.S. or Iraq.

Two sources familiar with the investigation said that prosecutors are looking at whether Blackwater lacked permits for dozens of automatic weapons used at its training grounds in Moyock. The investigation is also looking into whether Blackwater was shipping weapons, night-vision scopes, armor, gun kits and other military goods to Iraq without the required permits.

U.S. law demands close attention to who ships weapons -- and to whom they are shipped. The weapons-smuggling investigation was mentioned in a letter sent Tuesday to State Department Inspector General Howard Krongard by Rep. Henry Waxman, a California Democrat who for years has been investigating wrongdoing by private contractors in Iraq.

Waxman charged that Krongard, the State Department's top watchdog, was impeding the investigation "into whether a large private security contractor working for the State Department was illegally smuggling weapons into Iraq."

When Krongard heard about the investigation, he sent an e-mail message ordering his investigative staff to stop work until the federal prosecutors in North Carolina could brief him. Krongard delayed the briefing for weeks, Waxman said.

Krongard did not assign an investigator to the case, but rather a member of his congressional and media staff, Waxman wrote.

Krongard disputed the charges in a statement.

"I made one of my best investigators available to help Assistant U.S. Attorneys in North Carolina in their investigation into alleged smuggling of weapons into Iraq by a contractor," he said. Blackwater is the only State Department security contractor based in North Carolina.

The prosecutors, James Candelmo of Raleigh and John Barrett of Greenville, did not return phone calls for comment.

In January, the prosecutors obtained guilty pleas from two former Blackwater employees, Kenneth Wayne Cashwell of Virginia Beach and William Ellsworth "Max" Grumiaux of Clemmons, in Forsyth County. The men and their lawyers either refused to comment or did not return calls.

The court files are stingy on details of the crimes: The men each pleaded guilty to possessing stolen firearms shipped in interstate or foreign commerce. Barrett, the prosecutor, has twice delayed the men's sentencing because of the help they are providing in the ongoing investigation.

While the federal investigation of Blackwater is proceeding behind closed doors, the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee, led by Waxman, has been pressing its investigation of Blackwater and other private contractors. Blackwater first came to the public's attention in March 2004, when a mob dragged the bodies of four slain Blackwater contractors through the streets of Fallujah, Iraq.

The men had gone into Fallujah without maps or armor and with fewer men than their contract called for, according to contracts and reports obtained by The News & Observer. Blackwater was working as the bottom layer of a series of subcontractors that ultimately reported to contracting giant Halliburton.

In December, the U.S. Army ordered Halliburton to refund the Army $20 million because it had no permission to use Blackwater for its missions.

The House Oversight Committee has requested that Erik Prince, the founder of Blackwater, testify at a hearing on Oct. 2.

(Marisa Taylor, Warren P. Strobel and Jonathan Landay of McClatchy Newspapers contributed to this report.)
 
Contractors, nothin' - mercenaries. Sorry, spade is a spade. If we lack military powerto protect our assets there, then we should draw down from places that don't need us, and don't want us - close our bases in Germany, and redeploy.
 
Smuggling?

I thought rifles with a happy switch (if you like AK's :D) were already plentiful
in country? What are they smuggling full-auto weapons INTO Iraq for? If they wanted to arm somebody, giv'em some cash and direct him to the closest back alley...
 
Blackwater lacked permits for dozens of automatic weapons"
So what, it's a war isn't it?
Oh my mistake, I forgot we just play war the last few decades, gotta stay PC ya know, what a joke. I bet them insurgent guys get sore ribs laughin, and American's are dieing because of PC crapo, GUURRR I am gonna stop.
 
Well consider this...

They were just ensuring job security. Think about it.

1. Arm the terrorists.
2. The terrorists don't hit you or tip you off when they do
3. You don't lose any diplomats/ VIPs

Therfore:

4. The war goes on forever
5. Fat cats get their contract renewed
6. Mercs collect $30K a month for low risk missions. (and get to go home whenever they want).

Sounds like a great plan. Too bad those soldiers had to die....
 
Ken Cashwell was a co-worker of mine before he went to Blackwater.

Really amazing shooter. Former Jarhead like me, too, which made it even worse for me to hear. We were all pretty surprised, I honestly thought he'd have known better than to screw with the ATF.
 
Contractors, nothin' - mercenaries.
Don't insult mercenaries.

This is the future of warfare people. This is the corruption that undeclared war gets us. If it were declared war, these people could be punished under UCMJ and held responsible for their actions.

Instead, Soldiers and Marines are being punished for doing their jobs and carrying out lawful orders while these clowns go unsupervised.
 
Actual legalities withstanding, I'd like to pose a thought to you guys. I am not taking sides on this, simply throwing out a thought as to why a decision of this sort could be made.

Lets look at it from the realistic side. You're the boss of a company, sending people into harms way, in a country bordering on civil war, wracked with terrorists who have nothing better to do than kill Americans. National sport in that part of the world, right.

Would you want your people to be given less than the best gear you could lay your hands on? You'd want them to train on all manner of full-autos to give them the best chance. Not to mention some people honestly want to succeed, despite rules and laws made by people who simply can't or won't understand that you can either play to win, or simply lose.

If the post above is an indication of at least one mind at Blackwater, then this last idea is the most likely. Rules be damned, get the job done the right way.

I'm not condoning going behind our government's back to supply people with good arms and gear, but I can understand it. As to the mentioned incidences with Blackwater employees and bad shoots; People are human. If you think you're being shot at in a place that it is a likely possibility, you're going to react. how you react is training, instinct, and quick thinking. Screw up the thinking part, and bad things can happen.
 
People griped about civilian deaths in Vietnam, too.

I wasn't there but I have a hunch the Revolutionary war, the American Civil War, and World War II had one or two civilian casualties, as well. The difference between then and now is a left-wing media which hates the United States and hires reporters who bad-mouth their own country every chance they get.

This is really nothing new, guys. War sucks and killing happens.
 
A little while ago I asked about how Blackwater USA and other non-government run corporations got around automatic weapons bans here in the US for training purposes, now I have my answer, they didn't. They probably were given the weapons by the government and thought that this was enough to keep them from having a problem.

To me it sounds like a case of the right hand of the government didn't know what the left hand was doing. On one hand they hire and equip these guys and then they try and prosecute them for weapons that they more than likely gave them. The whole thing is screwy.


blackwater_350.jpg

blackwater8-301x274.jpg


News article talking about the current scandal.
http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5gBBlkVdxsOL5VU5LlP4p9wldauxg

0917blackwater.jpg


And another one.
http://uk.reuters.com/article/oilRpt/idUKN2220885920070922


blackwater_mercenaries.jpg

Blackwater USA in New Orleans.
http://www.blackwaterblogger.com/2007/09/katrina1.html

Here's what Blackwater USA had to say on the current scandal (Sep 2007).
http://www.blackwaterusa.com/

Blackwater banned in Iraq after firefight (Sep 2007).
http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=39296

You Tube Video On Black Water.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJUEULWEP9c

blackwater_fallujah1.jpg

Blackwater first came into the limelight after four of their contractors were killed in Fallujah.

Blackwater contractors killed in Fallujah
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/04/01/iraq.contractor/index.html

Blackwater contractors killed and mutilated in Fallujah.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3585765.stm

 
These folks have been hired as bodyguards to US officials.

Does that qualify them as mercenaries??

And since when at the Federal level does one need a permit for a machinegun????


I know in NC one must have a sheriffs permit for a machinegun but thats STATE law, not federal.

I'm confused.
 
And since when at the Federal level does one need a permit for a machinegun????
We are mincing words here. Permit, tax stamp, what have you... A tax stamp is for all intended purposes a permit. If the government says you don't have what you need, you are screwed. I just hope they are screwed like I would be screwed. I have no sympathy for those who do not fight for God or Country. (and before anyone says they do no engage in "warfare", if they were nothing more than protection they would only fight long enough to flee with their security objective protected. When you see these guys sitting on roof tops shooting, they are not fleeing anything.)
 
I have no sympathy for those who do not fight for God or Country.

How are Blackwater personnel any different than the engineers sitting behind desks at Lockheed Martin working on the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, or the welders at Newport News building the aircraft carrier CVN-77?

These guys are there because they're doing work that the government can not do itself, for one reason or another.

I asked about how Blackwater USA and other non-government run corporations got around automatic weapons bans here in the US for training purposes

The answer I've been told is that the weapons are ordered through an offshore subsidiary, and shipped directly to the area of operation. They function like a middleman. Basically Blackwater doesnt take possession within the USA, so the transaction is similar to selling to any other foreign entity.

And I've heard that for training and domestic operations, they carry semi-autos.

Again, this info is just word of mouth.
 
The overwhelming majority of these operators have served their country and/or God of their choice as former military for the U.S.
The biggest difference is that now their families aren't on foodstamps and they aren't being courtmartialed for their wife bouncing a check back at the kileen TX Blockbuster video.
An overwhelming majority of people were mouthbreathing the "let's roll" mantra when we went in and didn't care how or why at the time, not to mention calling anyone like me who railed against the invasion a commie.
Now, years later, we have undeclared war draggin on and we want to get picky about the contractors? Gimme a break. The American people got what they asked for in the drive thru.

So Blackwater has a few untaxed full auto weapons. So their operators are sniping Maadi patrols on Youtube. So their men are well paid. So what?

A bunch of you wanted your war. You got it.
 
Outsourcing war? What next.

Two employees pleaded out, so something was going on, but I doubt it was the company. The Blackwater guys are nothing oif not smart. Would you be yahooing a few class threes to put a 200 million dollar contract at risk?

I'm betting it was stupid individuals, not the company. If that is the case, they should get hammered just like you or I would.

Any other discussion of Blackwater verges on political, not guns.
 
The biggest difference is that now their families aren't on foodstamps and they aren't being courtmartialed for their wife bouncing a check back at the kileen TX Blockbuster video.
So let's pay corporations huge sums of money to hire security for large sums of money so that those who actually enlisted and belong there continue to get mistreated, abused, and underpayed by the same country that they are sworn to defend. And we wonder why there are issues with retention and recruitment. Why bother when you can be a part of the National Guard when you can be a part of the corporate guard.
 
Sort of reminds me of the Gerald Bull ("Supergun" arty inventor/genius) story. You get used to a cozy relationship with Uncle Sugar, and assume you are covered somehow for various gray area issues, such as providing arty to South Africa, then fighting a bush war against our cold war enemies in Angola.

Then you turn around and are arrested by another branch of the govt, which apparantly "didn't get the memo" (which was probably written in disappearing ink!) Next thing you know, you're in the slammer.

Something similar almost happened to CIA officer Robert Baer ("See No Evil"). He came back to DC from u/c work in Iraq in the 90s, and was nearly arrested by the FBI for being involved with guys who might have tried to take out Saddam.

Sometimes it makes you wonder. Right hand, meet left hand.
 
And since when at the Federal level does one need a permit for a machinegun????

All privately-owned Machine Guns have to be registered in the NFA Registry run by the BATFE. When you register a MG in the registry you pay $200 for a "tax stamp." The process of filling out the forms and getting the tax stamp is essentially a "permit," even though it is not called that.

To make things more complicated, private citizens are restricted to owning ONLY those machine guns that were manufactured *and* registered prior to May of 1986. At that time the NFA registry was "closed" and no more MG's could be registered for private ownership.

The military and law enforcment agencies can still own newly made MG's, but private citizens and private companies can not do so. (There is an exception for MG manufacturers and MG dealers to allow them to "demonstrate" MG's to interested federal and local agencies. It is a small exception though).

You were aware of this, right?
 
This is why I asked for information about the case. Private contractors had
absolutely no problem possessing personal weapons and seemed to have
been covered under letter by whatever fed agency they were under contract
with such as the State Dept. This seemed to apply here in the US if they
were on their way to deploy. From where I mob'd here in CONUS I recall
contractors arriving with personal weapons, but nothing in "excess" of what
they would have carried on their person in Iraq.

Are there any public legal docs in this case?
 
They were just ensuring job security. Think about it.

1. Arm the terrorists.
2. The terrorists don't hit you or tip you off when they do
3. You don't lose any diplomats/ VIPs

Therfore:

4. The war goes on forever
5. Fat cats get their contract renewed
6. Mercs collect $30K a month for low risk missions. (and get to go home whenever they want).

Sounds like a great plan. Too bad those soldiers had to die....

180px-Gribble.jpg
 
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