Bulk ammo and the ATF

[Sam1911]

Ok...what did they say about reporting sales over 1,000 rds. to the BATFE or FBI or whomever?

 

[Sky]

Ok...what did they say about reporting sales over 1,000 rds. to the BATFE or FBI or whomever

Sam they said absolutely not! Shipping over 100,000 rounds a month it would be pretty near impossible. However at Centerfire systems he did say all the ammo packages/boxed shipped are clearly marked. Also they had not heard of any visits from ATF to their customers.

 

[pockets]

So 4 pages into this, we're back to 'someone told someone who told me'.

BTW- In all of the years I worked in Mexico, I never heard of the 'Boarder Patrol'. Do they keep tabs on rooming house guests?
.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

So 4 pages into this, we're back to 'someone told someone who told me'.

Right!

Same here; as indicated it appears it might have been a driver. I want to find out if both guys are on the same drivers route.

Until you have some real information and not just stories, what does it matter?

So these customers consumners supposedly visited by the ATF are now on watch lists? How do you know?

Gun store/range rumors abound. After all, Colt isn't selling to the public anymore, Walmart ammo is made to 'expire' after 1 year or 2 (depending on the source), Obama is going to stop sales of assault rifles (buy now before the government puts a halt to it!), etc.

Always wear your tin foil hat when gossiping at the gun store/range.

 

[Sky]

Until you have some real information and not just stories, what does it matter?

So these customers consumers supposedly visited by the ATF are now on watch lists? How do you know?

Gun store/range rumors abound. After all, Colt isn't selling to the public anymore, Walmart ammo is made to 'expire' after 1 year or 2 (depending on the source), Obama is going to stop sales of assault rifles (buy now before the government puts a halt to it!), etc.

Always wear your tin foil hat when gossiping at the gun store/range.

I have known the owner of the LGS for a few years. We have hunted together, had family dinners together, and has always been straight with me.

Now, if you had someone who is a friend and told you what had been happening at his business would you believe him or just call it tin foil?

The question was asked "if" anyone had heard of such a thing or had it happened to anyone else.

There are always those who want to cry tin foil when they hear something out of their normal day to day experience. Also there are certain individuals who get a kick out of trying to show their superiority by degrading others.

There is no reason IMO for the two customers to relay a story like this unless, what? Many still believe around here that your word is your bond so I really have a hard time believing two guys on two separate occasions came in telling the same story unless there was an orchestrated conspiracy for what reason.

Al is the only one who provided a thread where something like this happened before.

Once again the question was has anyone heard of this before? The few guys I have been able to speak with around here have all thought it was a driver with a "see something say something" attitude.

I will find out what I can as soon as I can; just because I want to know what went down and why.
I am still trying to speak with one of the customers.

 

[crazyjennyblack]

I'm with you, Sky. Most definitely not tinfoil. You got the info from your friend, who got it IN PERSON from his customers. That's only second-hand information, which is good enough for me because this stuff is also in the news.

There are plenty of news stories out there that we don't need to rehash about the government making unwritten rules and illegal moves in the border states. If I lived down there (glad I don't) I would simply not mail-order my ammo, and buy in-person, cash only. Problem solved, until the people who are doing this get sent to jail. Never underestimate the reach of corruption or its effects on people.

 

[Warp]

I went to my favorite range today to sight in my AK-47 7.62x39 clone with another red dot. While there a discussion transpired about bulk ammo sales and a visit from ATF. In the last month 2 customers who ordered bulk ammo got a visit by ATF within 2 hours of delivery. The ATF said, "You received a UPS shipment of ammo and we want to see the gun it is for". Both customers complied. Also when you get the visit you are placed on a watch list in the event any crime is committed in your local area by the caliber they have you now listed for; they can request to do a ballistic test on your weapon.

This is not Tin Foil and the range owner later confirmed what had been said. This is actually a low crime area so no one we know of has had their weapon tested or asked for, as of yet.


I live in a boarder state whereby in a couple of directions you are at the Mexican Boarder.

I assume this is to stop someone from buying ammo for someone else or the result of the last crazy who purchased ammo on line?

Has anyone else been told or experienced this to be true?

"No" *closes door* (door wouldn't even be open enough to walk through and would be held at that point, and no further, by the Door Club anchored in the concrete slab)

If this actually were to happen, to me.


I have not heard of it happening.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

I have known the owner of the LGS for a few years. We have hunted together, had family dinners together, and has always been straight with me.

Now, if you had someone who is a friend and told you what had been happening at his business would you believe him or just call it tin foil?

Definitely tin foil. It doesn't matter who it is if they say something crazy, then it is crazy. The issue was not as you and your LGS owner apparently implied which was definitely tin foil hattery.

There is no reason IMO for the two customers to relay a story like this unless, what? Many still believe around here that your word is your bond so I really have a hard time believing two guys on two separate occasions came in telling the same story unless there was an orchestrated conspiracy for what reason.

See, there is the rub. You don't even know who is telling the stories, but you went from bulk ammo to being put on ATF watchlists, as if it was some big deal. Do you even know what it means to be on an ATF watchlist? As for the stories and people's word, I am sure nobody ever stretches the truth, plays jokes, or otherwise presents information in a manner other than a way that is 100% accurate and containing of relevant information.

What is really interesting is that when the driver issue came up, you mmediately upped the stakes by saying you really thought it was somebody much higher up the food chain, as if this was some big conspiracy. People's words may be their bonds, but blowing things out of proportion is where the tin foil aspect shows itself.

Al my UPS delivery guy is almost a friend and I plan on asking him "IF" I can catch him. I really think (with nothing but a hunch) the reporting comes much further up the food chain than the driver. But I will make an effort to ask for sure.

Something tells me that there aren't going to be any more of these supposed ATF visits and nobody is going on any watchlists just because they ordered some ammo. Even if they were called via the driver, I am sure that has been put to a halt. Its really a non-issue that can happen anytime there is a misunderstanding on behalf of a witness/informant or somebody not otherwise familiar with the law.

 

[zxcvbob]

that's what They want you you believe...

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

It was a UPS driver that got nervous delivering dummy hand grenades to the Branch Dividians, wasn't it? That was the alleged "probable cause" that pushed the authorities over the edge, from sitting and watching, to burning the place down.

 

[Jorg Nysgerrig]

If I lived down there (glad I don't) I would simply not mail-order my ammo, and buy in-person, cash only.

Hm, it's almost as if someone in this thread predicted that this story might have that kind of effect. Now, if we could only nail down who might benefit from such a reaction...

 

[Warp]

The heck with buying in person in cash. Better prices can almost always be found online.

My UPS driver will have to keep carrying those boxes.

 

[788Ham]

If whats been on these 4 pages is absolutely true, the ATF has time to check out "whom is buying what, and how much", what a waste of our monies and time! Maybe their getting paranoid about how much is out there, how they'll go about getting through all of this "flak" ! They should have been more interested in the Fast and Furious while they had their hands involved....... on well, such is life in DC. Don't forget to vote !

 

[Sky]

Update:

LGS was closed today but spoke with the owner and will try to see if I can talk to one of the story tellers tomorrow.

Next: Just by luck I spoke with my UPS delivery driver and told him the story. Then asked if there had been a change in policy. There has been nothing put out to the drivers that he is aware of. He laughed and said he did not even know what the deal is on a gun delivery. So to me it means if everything else is true that it was a driver or farther up the food chain for maybe other reasons that are not readily apparent? Your guess is as good as mine?

The driver was running late (it was 19:30 they work the hind end off) but stopped to talk a bit and listen, good guy. I did tell him I should be having a ammo shipment within the next week or so and we will see. He joked and said, "if someone shows up it ain't because of him"!

I ordered some bulk ammo today in 7.62x39 SP (500) and some 12 gage shot shells. Got the confirmation number but no tracking number as of this writing.

Tomorrow I will drive to the range after speaking with the owner and have a chat with one of the guys if it can be arranged. All I can think to do at this stage.

Like many others I have ordered on line 'like forever' except for the occasional box at Walmart; not as much as I used to because the feral pigs have not wanted to come out and play but nevertheless that is the way I have purchased in the past and shall continue to do so. Hopefully I will find out a little more info tomorrow for some kind of closure.

 

[WardenWolf]

Correct response: "Come back with a warrant."

 

[Fishslayer]

Kind of wondering if the story, if true, might have some tie in to the recent TOS agreement from Microsloth that it is forbidden to use their software, etc, to buy/sell firearms. The consensus from people who seem way more knowlegable than I was that it is a CYA thing.

Maybe UPS is covering their A by reporting "large" ammo sales. I know, I know... 1K rounds isn't a large purchase by our standards but we've all seen the wide eyed infobabe on TV breathlessly report on the "huge ammunition cache" discovered under some miscreant's bed. "Hundreds of rounds!"

Maybe they're trying to show "due dilligence" by reporting red flags like big ammo purchases, paying in cash, having a week's worth of food on hand... you know.

 

[lobo9er]

[

nobody is going on any watchlists just because they ordered some ammo.

A close friend of mine was put on the do not fly list because his name was "to common". He was a Sgt. in the Army at the time and found out while attempting to fly for active duty.
In 2007 there were 700,000 names on the terrorist watch list. reportedly was growing 20,000 records a month (wether that is names or just new files I dont know) So anything is possible.

 

[murdoc rose]

If there was any truth to this half of thr's members would be getting monthly visits.

 

[Sky]

Maybe UPS is covering their A by reporting "large" ammo sales.

Well according to my UPS guy it is not an official policy put out to the drivers. Do not know about any further up the chain of command.

 

[texgunner]

One could always buy bulk at a gun show and pay cash.

Well there is the possibility of being followed by under cover agents.

 

[evan price]

Y'all, it's OK!

By sheer virtue of frequenting gun forums we are ALL on the list for the re-education camps of harsh regimine.
I'll save you a seat by the razor wire.

 

[FROGO207]

^^^^ Yeah right

 

[Sky]

Ta Da!!

I just got off the phone with one of the individuals this happened to. He called me from work on his lunch break.

We will call him Mex. He did not want me to use any part of his real name. He speaks English very well considering many around here do not.

This is what Mex told me.

He ordered 3000 rounds in 223 which was delivered in the morning at his residence before he departed for work at 9 am.

He stored the ammo and then left for work. He was 3 blocks from his house and saw a Border Patrol vehicle parked in an empty lot and thought to himself that they must be after someone but otherwise did not think much else. We see Border patrol almost everyday going about their business so it is not that unusual.

Now his job requires him to work on the Mexican side of the wall which is still on the Texas side of the border. Google it there have been many problems with people who have homes on the wrong side of the wall....Property values are none existent and is an all around big hassle for "people on the wrong side of the wall".

He returned home and shortly after arriving he got the knock on the door. There were 6 guys and one female agent at his door. He thinks they were all ICE and Border Patrol agents and does not think any were BTAF but is not 100% sure. They were very professional and wanted to see his gun (s) the ammo went to and wanted him to sign a waver that he allowed them to do so..A balistic test was never mentioned to Mex or being placed on some watch list. My two cents would be since he got the visit someone must be watching, no?

Mex is a normal hard working guy from what I could tell. He thought they were checking to see if he was supplying guns and ammo south of the border. He thought about the whole "get a search warrant thing" but figured he did not need the hassle or expense if he went that route. He is not paranoid from what I could tell but is also aware things happen to someone who rocks the system.

Mex figured and they indicated that with some of the stuff that has gone on in the last few months they were wanting to be sure he was not running guns south and was not some kind of weirdo. Mex mentioned that he knows of two other people this has happened to.

I told him about THR and invited him to join when he told me he had ordered 10 firearms in the last couple of years; he said he would check it out.

This answers many questions in my mind. The nuts and bolts about how they knew he was receiving the ammo is still not clear or answered but I doubt it is to complicated for some agency who wants to know what is going where and to whom.

I will continue to try and see how many others this has happened to. Mex and I will meet up at the range one day in the near future and we will have a deeper, longer conversation.

 

[Jorg Nysgerrig]

Border. The word is border. It is hard to take you seriously when you make the same mistake over and over. Border. A boarder lives with you. You live near a border.

Please, for the sanity of all the pedantic fools who have taken the time to master the esoteric art of homophones, use the right word. Thanks!

 

[rangerphil]

Don't you think the "boarder" comments are a little harsh, moderator? Your tone directed to a member with over 2,700 posts on this forum is, in my opinion, not appropriate. There...I said it.