Hot brass
Member
In California, the shooter would be in DEEEEP DOO DOOOO
Bystander shoots alleged car burglar in buttocks
- Thread starter Triad
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Standing Wolf
Member in memoriam
I've got cigarette butts in ash trays that are worth more than the life of any criminal who breaks into my house.
Double Naught Spy
Sus Venator
jsalcedo noted that committing crimes in Texas at night, expect to be shot. That is probably true anywhere. HOWEVER, we do have specific laws for this, somewhat alluded to by Smoke, but they are very specific. You don't have the right to just shoot somebody for breaking the law. It has to pertain to your property if you are not in an actual self defense situation and you have to believe that you have no other reasonable manner of retaining or regaining said property. For example, if two teenagers were trying to push your car out of your driveway at night and the car was still locked, in park, and obviously not moving, you would not have any reasonable belief that the teenagers were actually going be able to get away with your car by how they were attempting to do so and so shooting them would not be justified...even if they really were trying to steal it.
If the shooter was not a person with a car or other property being burgled, then he committed attempted murder which apparently succeeded. The law in Texas does not allow for the protection of somebody else's property in such a situation.
Of course, the shooter could have thought the burglar raised a weapon, feared for his life, and hence shot the guy in the buttock. It would be a hard sell, but such shots from the back have been justified in the past here in Texas.
Pelvis shots are not good shots to make in terms of expecting a stop? Sure enough, as shots of a last resort. Shooting the pelvis first does ZERO to incapacitate the person's fighting abilities if they have a gun. The bad guy in this case apparently did not and so he did not return fire. No doubt he would have returned fire if he had a gun.
As a final note, the title of the article was completely stupid. The person doing the shooting was NOT a bystander. Once you start participating in an aggressive manner, then you are no longer a bystander, but a player.
If the shooter was not a person with a car or other property being burgled, then he committed attempted murder which apparently succeeded. The law in Texas does not allow for the protection of somebody else's property in such a situation.
Of course, the shooter could have thought the burglar raised a weapon, feared for his life, and hence shot the guy in the buttock. It would be a hard sell, but such shots from the back have been justified in the past here in Texas.
Pelvis shots are not good shots to make in terms of expecting a stop? Sure enough, as shots of a last resort. Shooting the pelvis first does ZERO to incapacitate the person's fighting abilities if they have a gun. The bad guy in this case apparently did not and so he did not return fire. No doubt he would have returned fire if he had a gun.
As a final note, the title of the article was completely stupid. The person doing the shooting was NOT a bystander. Once you start participating in an aggressive manner, then you are no longer a bystander, but a player.
clubsoda22
member
Disagree, i've seen 9mm FMJ bounce off the pelvis. The penetration was so shallow more than half the bullet was sticking out of the enterence wound and fell out as i was cutting off the guys pants in the back of the ambulance. The pelvis is very hard to break. Bleed out can take several minutes as well.
Grounds for use of Deadly Force in TX.
-Criminal Mischief (vandalism--really aimed at vandalism resulting in property damage) at night.
-Arson.
-Imminent loss of property (theft or burglary).
-Fear for life or fear of serious injury.
-On behalf of another if you reasonably feel that other person would take the action were they able and when the above circumstances apply.
Caveat to all of these.
You must believe at the time of the incident that there is no other reasonable way to prevent the injury/property loss other than the application of deadly force.
Reasonable will be determined by a jury, so you'd better be right.
-Criminal Mischief (vandalism--really aimed at vandalism resulting in property damage) at night.
-Arson.
-Imminent loss of property (theft or burglary).
-Fear for life or fear of serious injury.
-On behalf of another if you reasonably feel that other person would take the action were they able and when the above circumstances apply.
Caveat to all of these.
You must believe at the time of the incident that there is no other reasonable way to prevent the injury/property loss other than the application of deadly force.
Reasonable will be determined by a jury, so you'd better be right.
Andrew Rothman
Member
So what is the best caliber and ammo for a one-stop buttocks shot? 
I agree with the majority here. While the guy got what he deserved, I wouldn't expose myself to the liability of being the one to take the shot -- even in Texas!
Just to be a little edumacational, here in MN, lethal force is only justified when the shooter is a reluctant participant who believes (and that famous "reasonable person" agrees) that he or another is in imminent danger of grievous bodily harm or death and that retreat is not possible (exception: there is no duty to retreat from your own home).
I agree with the majority here. While the guy got what he deserved, I wouldn't expose myself to the liability of being the one to take the shot -- even in Texas!
Just to be a little edumacational, here in MN, lethal force is only justified when the shooter is a reluctant participant who believes (and that famous "reasonable person" agrees) that he or another is in imminent danger of grievous bodily harm or death and that retreat is not possible (exception: there is no duty to retreat from your own home).
Billmanweh
Member
apparently the owner of the car that was being burglarized has been ruled out as a suspect. the shooter must not be in any hurry to get his good citizenship medal.
Nathanael_Greene
Member
Any indication that the police are actively looking for the shooter?
I imagine his conscience is bothering him more than a little--and if it isn't, let's hope they find him soon.
Years ago, I had someone try to climb into my apartment kitchen window late one night. I suppose I could've justifiably shot him, but I could see he wasn't armed (his hands were on the window sill). I think he was just drunk, had locked himself out, and was at the wrong apartment.
He apparently wasn't expecting to find anyone home, and he ran off as soon as he heard me.
I was more relieved than anything; the thought of that guy's brains splattered all over my kitchen wasn't a very pleasant image. (I was about eight feet away, with a .357 magnum in my hands.)
I imagine his conscience is bothering him more than a little--and if it isn't, let's hope they find him soon.
Years ago, I had someone try to climb into my apartment kitchen window late one night. I suppose I could've justifiably shot him, but I could see he wasn't armed (his hands were on the window sill). I think he was just drunk, had locked himself out, and was at the wrong apartment.
He apparently wasn't expecting to find anyone home, and he ran off as soon as he heard me.
I was more relieved than anything; the thought of that guy's brains splattered all over my kitchen wasn't a very pleasant image. (I was about eight feet away, with a .357 magnum in my hands.)
Billmanweh
Member
I don't know why, but that reminds me of something that happened when I was about 13...
my brother and I had been outside in the neighborhood playing basketball and came inside to crash and grab something cold to drink. as we're sitting around the living room, a guy who looked to be in his 20's walked in the front door and just came over and had a seat on the sofa. I assumed that it was a friend of my brother's and (later I found out) he assumed the same. well, my mom comes out of the kitchen and sees this total stranger sitting in the living room. apparently she knew the guy didn't belong and just calmly walks back into the bedroom. about ten seconds later she comes back holding a ruger single action revolver. LOL. she calmly points it in the stranger's direction and says something to the effect of "I don't know who you are, but you're in the wrong apartment" LOL. it goes without saying that the guy tore his ??? outside. meanwhile my brother and I are just stunned. at the time I wouldn't describe it as a funny scene at all, but I could nearly bust a gut thinking back on it now.
memories, huh?
my brother and I had been outside in the neighborhood playing basketball and came inside to crash and grab something cold to drink. as we're sitting around the living room, a guy who looked to be in his 20's walked in the front door and just came over and had a seat on the sofa. I assumed that it was a friend of my brother's and (later I found out) he assumed the same. well, my mom comes out of the kitchen and sees this total stranger sitting in the living room. apparently she knew the guy didn't belong and just calmly walks back into the bedroom. about ten seconds later she comes back holding a ruger single action revolver. LOL. she calmly points it in the stranger's direction and says something to the effect of "I don't know who you are, but you're in the wrong apartment" LOL. it goes without saying that the guy tore his ??? outside. meanwhile my brother and I are just stunned. at the time I wouldn't describe it as a funny scene at all, but I could nearly bust a gut thinking back on it now.
memories, huh?
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