California: Banning lead and requiring microstamping since 2007

[Leanwolf]

"wow, even though arnold is a only a nominal republican i never thought he would sign the microstamping bill."


I don't know why anyone wold ever think that Gov. Arnold Kennedy would NOT sign every communistnazi anti-gun bill the communistnazi legislators of California come up with.

He is a "Kennedy." He takes his marching orders from Uncle Teddy. If he disobeyed Uncle Teddy, Uncle Teddy would beat him like a rented mule.

L.W.

 

[seektruth]

Time to buy a couple more auto's before this sets in.

Maybe I'm wrong, but doesn't the bill basically make any semi-auto handgun without the microstamping firing pin illegal? Which would mean that come 2010, those guns you buy now are suddenly illegal to own?

 

[MrTuffPaws]

Maybe I'm wrong, but doesn't the bill basically make any semi-auto handgun without the microstamping firing pin illegal? Which would mean that come 2010, those guns you buy now are suddenly illegal to own?

No, like any other gun bill in California, it only affects weapons after a certain date. In other words, no crime will be committed with old handguns. Only new ones.

 

[average_shooter]

And no firing pins from new firearms will be swapped with old firearms manufactured before the cutoff date...

 

[FieroCDSP]

THis is probably a question for another thread of it's own, but I asked myself this today, so excuse me if it's already been asked.

If a state passes a law that makes production of a firearm so overly expensive or impossible (since the microstamping has yet to scale up) for the manufacturers that they can no longer do business there, wouldn't that be unconstitutional on the basis of the 2A, since they have effectively passed a law that prevents citizens from being able to bear arms? Not that I put any faith at all in that circuit court, but wouldn't there be some legal action to be persued?

 

[vynx]

They just want to make handgun ownership so expensive that only the very rich or protection service corporations can afford to buy them.

This isn't about catching criminals its about throwing road blocks in the way of gun ownership.

Same with the ammo ban - one small step to outlawing ammo in California.

 

[Mainsail]

Is there a specific exemption for the police? IOW, does the law say that police firearms do not have to have microstamping firing pins? Think about it, if the police want to replace the pistols they’re currently carrying, and no manufacturer is willing to re-tool, California law enforcement agencies have purchased their last guns.

 

[average_shooter]

...wouldn't that be unconstitutional on the basis of the 2A...

Actually, I wonder if "Interstate Commerce" could be used here...

Can states interfere with interstate commerce to such an extent?

 

[Novus Collectus]

I got into an argument with some antis about the changing of firing pins. They claimed criminals are too stupid to do somethning so complex. I explained to them that anyone that can't figure it out just has to get on the internet for step by step instructions on how to change a firing pin within a minute.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=No4SA6v6xjE&mode=related&search=

 

[Novus Collectus]

Maybe I'm wrong, but doesn't the bill basically make any semi-auto handgun without the microstamping firing pin illegal? Which would mean that come 2010, those guns you buy now are suddenly illegal to own?

As I read it they are not illegal, but now they are basically worthless after 2010 because they won't be able to sell them in CA since they are now "unsafe" rolleyes handguns.

 

[Patriot-Brewer]

That "movie" on their site said this law effects "new model automatic handuns" so does that really mean only "NEW MODEL" or does that mean ALL new auto's after 2010, not just a new design.

And what happens when you need a new firing pin?

This state's pol's suck.

 

[HuntAndFish]

Is there a specific exemption for the police?

Well of course there is. Probably one for the Movie Industry as well, although I haven't read the bill that passed in its final form.

 

[Novus Collectus]

California penal code:

12125. (a) Commencing January 1, 2001, any person in this state who
manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state
for sale, keeps for sale, offers or exposes for sale, gives, or lends
any unsafe handgun shall be punished by imprisonment in a county
jail not exceeding one year.

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cacodes/pen/12125-12133.html
(Link does not have the amended section. The part of the code as amended is below)

SECTION 1. Section 12126 of the Penal Code is amended to read:
12126. As used in this chapter, "unsafe handgun" means any
pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon
the person, as defined in subdivision (a) of Section 12001, for which
any of the following is true:
(a) For a revolver:
(1) It does not have a safety device that, either automatically in
the case of a double-action firing mechanism, or by manual operation
in the case of a single-action firing mechanism, causes the hammer
to retract to a point where the firing pin does not rest upon the
primer of the cartridge.
(2) It does not meet the firing requirement for handguns pursuant
to Section 12127.
(3) It does not meet the drop safety requirement for handguns
pursuant to Section 12128.
(b) For a pistol:
(1) It does not have a positive manually operated safety device,
as determined by standards relating to imported guns promulgated by
the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms.
(2) It does not meet the firing requirement for handguns pursuant
to Section 12127.
(3) It does not meet the drop safety requirement for handguns
pursuant to Section 12128.
(4) Commencing January 1, 2006, for a center-fire
center fire semiautomatic pistol that is not
already listed on the roster pursuant to Section 12131, it does not
have either a chamber load indicator, or a magazine disconnect
mechanism.
(5) Commencing January 1, 2007, for all center-fire
center fire semiautomatic pistols that are not
already listed on the roster pursuant to Section 12131, it does not
have both a chamber load indicator and if it has a detachable
magazine, a magazine disconnect mechanism.
(6) Commencing January 1, 2006, for all rimfire semiautomatic
pistols that are not already listed on the roster pursuant to Section
12131, it does not have a magazine disconnect mechanism, if it has a
detachable magazine.
(7) Commencing January 1, 2010, for all semiautomatic pistols that
are not already listed on the roster pursuant to Section 12131, it
is not designed and equipped with a microscopic array of characters
that identify the make, model, and serial number of the pistol,
etched or otherwise imprinted onto the interior surface or internal
working parts of the pistol, and that are transferred by imprinting
on each cartridge case when the firearm is fired.

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/07-08/bill/asm/ab_1451-1500/ab_1471_bill_20070223_introduced.html

 

[eliphalet]

No, like any other gun bill in California, it only affects weapons after a certain date.

Like grandfathered in?
Does this mean I can come back to Calif and bring the Mini 14 with the 20 and 30 round clips I bought there new from a FFL in about 1980 and be legal?

 

[TheArchDuke]

You could bring the gun because it's not a handgun and isn't effected by the Bill. The magazines are a no go I believe.

 

[magsnubby]

Stop acting like it's such a big surprise he signed the bill. He's always been a RINO. He's married to a Kennedy.

I heard he's changing his name to Arnold Kennedynegger.

 

[SDDL-UP]

Socialist scum!

Leave immediately! You can still live in a free state, but it aint California!

 

[Novus Collectus]

Whenever I feel down by MD's bogus gun laws, I look at California's and I don't feel as bad.

 

[work2shoot]

Where the hell was the N.R.A. on this? Are they too busy licking the stamps from membership dues to even care or at least pretend to to get involved with whats going on in California? Maybe the N.R.A. washed their hands with California a long time ago and this bill was ripe for the taking as there would be no oppositon, or at least a token one from the political pro-gunners. Well now since all you Californians wont be buying guns or ammo there's more $$$ the state can take from you to give to the immagrants. Too bad about this bill as California was at one time really a great state.

 

[Zoogster]

Once this becomes law purchasing normal parts involved in the "stamping process" will have to become much more restricted.
So get ready to have to go through FFLs and documented lengthy processes to purchase things like barrels, extractors, and breaches.

So buying an extra barrel will become difficult. It will also likely mean most cheap or affordable aftermarket parts manufactures that make things like barrels, and breaches will be unable to do business with the CA market.

Installing current aftermarket ones would be creating an "unsafe handgun" in a gun made after 2010. I don't see most small companies that make a small profit being able to afford to comply.

Also reloaders will probably find thier brass becoming unsafe much faster. With letters being indented into the surface of the brass each time it will only take a small number of repeated stampings before the brass casing is compromised.

 

[Jim Diver]

The nra should have sent orange cards to all PRK members to call the gov. They didn't.

They have done it before.

They really dropped the ball on this one.

 

[Librarian]

It stamps the primer though, right? So once fired would just have to be de-primed before selling?

Also supposed to mark another part of the case.

Is there a specific exemption for the police?

Yes, in the sense that this bill requires the microstamping in order to add the gun to the Roster, and police are not restricted to guns on the Roster.

That "movie" on their site said this law effects "new model automatic handuns" so does that really mean only "NEW MODEL" or does that mean ALL new auto's after 2010, not just a new design.

All auto pistols added to Roster after 1 Jan 2010. If it isn't on the list then, it can't get on it after unless it has the microstamping ah, um, well, 'technology', since all the other, impolite, terms are not High Road.

Like grandfathered in?
Does this mean I can come back to Calif and bring the Mini 14 with the 20 and 30 round clips I bought there new from a FFL in about 1980 and be legal?

If you owned then in California before 2001, yes you can bring them back and use them. At least, that's how the law reads; whether a test case would agree is uncertain, because AFAIK there has not yet been such a case.

Maybe I'm wrong, but doesn't the bill basically make any semi-auto handgun without the microstamping firing pin illegal? Which would mean that come 2010, those guns you buy now are suddenly illegal to own?

Just to expand on the earlier correct answer, in the current state of the law - and realize this could change - guns once approved for the Roster with a particular set of features stay on the Roster for as long as the manufacturer pays the annual fee*. So far, subsequent laws to the first one all have said 'to add a gun to the Roster, the gun must have [some feature] after [some new date]'; none have said 'after [some date], guns now on the Roster without [some feature] must be removed from the Roster'.

(* There is 1 exception, intended to cover fraud - a manufacturer submits a pistol, it gets added to the Roster, and then DOJ retests the commercial samples and discovers, say, the manufacturer has swapped in zinc for stainless steel. Pistols sold not-as-tested can be removed from the Roster. I don't know if this has happened, so I don't know for sure if, for example, the manufacturer mended his ways and supplies the stainless pistols, that those pistols would have to have the new features required after the original certification date.)

 

[work2shoot]

If this is true, couldn't someone pick up some of your spent brass from where ever you left it and leave that spent case(s) at a crime scene to "set you up"? How would you explain that one away to the cops who are heavelly dependent on tech and lab research. Im just thinking out loud...

 

[MrTuffPaws]

If this is true, couldn't someone pick up some of your spent brass from where ever you left it and leave that spent case(s) at a crime scene to "set you up"? How would you explain that one away to the cops who are heavelly dependent on tech and lab research. Im just thinking out loud...

Yes. Welcome to the logic of California law.

 

[Odd Job]

Hmmm, this is very interesting, gents. I have a few questions from across the pond:

1) Does this microstamping require that a minimum number of surfaces or components of the action be equipped with the serial number, presumably in raised form? Because if that is the case, I envisage them having to include it in the chamber also which will be much more difficult to remove.

2) This very small raised serial number must surely be subject to wear (especially if it is in the chamber) and so there is the possibility that it will fail to imprint after x amount of rounds. What about the effects of dirt: surely that can render an obscured stamp?

3) Let's say the cops have a crime scene where they have retrieved a spent cartridge case and also a bullet. They process the cartridge case and find that the microstamp indicates that the case comes from a Ruger. Yet the general rifling characteristics on the bullet indicate that the round was fired from a Kimber. Can the one piece of evidence be used to cast doubt on the other?

4) If you have a cartridge case that has breech face impressions that are consistent with handgun A but the pin impression is consistent with handgun B is it not obvious that the pin impression is going to be the one that is first disregarded, as it possible that either the gun had a non-original firing pin or that the entire cartridge case is a plant (with a reloaded expended primer?)

Actually, forget my questions, I think it is obvious that this microstamping is going to be a futile exercise. Once the criminals get savy, the labs will have to all but disregard the stamps entirely.