Badkharma
Member
+1. I didn't get anything in the mail regarding this for at least the last several months. It's like they felt CA is a lost cause so they don't even bother (oh wait....it IS a lost cause...).
California: Banning lead and requiring microstamping since 2007
- Thread starter MrTuffPaws
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+1. I didn't get anything in the mail regarding this for at least the last several months. It's like they felt CA is a lost cause so they don't even bother (oh wait....it IS a lost cause...).
Lone_Gunman
Member
Does it make Californians feel better to blame the NRA for bad laws passed by their elected officials?
I assume all the complainers wrote letters the their politicians on their own, right? If you didnt write a letter and make some phone calls, then its your fault.
I assume all the complainers wrote letters the their politicians on their own, right? If you didnt write a letter and make some phone calls, then its your fault.
TuffPaws, McClintock was not running in November. Would have voted for him if he were.
I can pull all sorts of people out of my ass that I would rather have in the Governor's Mansion, but they weren't on the ballot.
I like Tom and I campaigned for an ally and friend of his for Mayor here. But the first time around, when Tom Mclintock had a chance, he was a DUMB ARSE and made way too much hay about being "the only pro-life candidate", which hardly anyone in CA but the far left and the religious fringe could give a crap about either way, rather than emphasizing his great and attractive credentials as a non-nutball fiscally-responsible fewer-laws-instead-of-more conservative.
I can pull all sorts of people out of my ass that I would rather have in the Governor's Mansion, but they weren't on the ballot.
I like Tom and I campaigned for an ally and friend of his for Mayor here. But the first time around, when Tom Mclintock had a chance, he was a DUMB ARSE and made way too much hay about being "the only pro-life candidate", which hardly anyone in CA but the far left and the religious fringe could give a crap about either way, rather than emphasizing his great and attractive credentials as a non-nutball fiscally-responsible fewer-laws-instead-of-more conservative.
TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
Yep. The voters got what the voters wanted from the people they voted into office, now it's not their fault?
eflatminor
Member
- Joined
- Dec 22, 2006
- Messages
- 421
For what it's worth, THIS Californian did write our Governor, forever known as "That ****ing bastard Arnold", to urge him not to sign that bill.
I too feel that the NRA, of which I am an active and financially supportive member, let us down. The NRA may be the best we currently have but this is not the first time they've failed to stop bad bills.
The Republican party also let us down. Sure Arnold likes to talk about the middle, which is fine in a state like CA. But since when does the middle support violations of our constitutional rights (I suspect this law is NOT constitutional)? If the Republican party wants to win the mid west and south in '08, they should oust Arnold from the party and make the 2nd a presidential issue.
I will write gun makers and urge them to stop selling in CA. Other than that, all I can think to do at this point is move out of the state, which I will do. There are things to really like about CA, but this back door ban on pistols is the last straw.
I too feel that the NRA, of which I am an active and financially supportive member, let us down. The NRA may be the best we currently have but this is not the first time they've failed to stop bad bills.
The Republican party also let us down. Sure Arnold likes to talk about the middle, which is fine in a state like CA. But since when does the middle support violations of our constitutional rights (I suspect this law is NOT constitutional)? If the Republican party wants to win the mid west and south in '08, they should oust Arnold from the party and make the 2nd a presidential issue.
I will write gun makers and urge them to stop selling in CA. Other than that, all I can think to do at this point is move out of the state, which I will do. There are things to really like about CA, but this back door ban on pistols is the last straw.
TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
Please explain how this is the NRAs fault.
Any decent explanation at all.
cdrt
Member
It requires that the gun be stamped in two places with the make, model and serial number so it will imprint on the cartridge case. Ergo, firing pin head, chamber, bolt face.
TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
Oh its got a lot more nasty stuff in it than that.....
The funny thing is the retroactive dates. I would think that means that any handgun currently being tested, but not yet on the DOJ approved list, would not be able to be approved without these things.
dogrunner
Member
Well, he IS the son of a NAZI and if they were advocates of anything it was surely control!
walking arsenal
Member
See my sig line.
Circle the wagons and get the word out.
E-mail manufacturers and tell them they will be boycotted if they sell anything to California.
Tell fellow shooters, urge them to do the same.
Write your news papers about this and what it is. Educate the public.
Do something about it.
Circle the wagons and get the word out.
E-mail manufacturers and tell them they will be boycotted if they sell anything to California.
Tell fellow shooters, urge them to do the same.
Write your news papers about this and what it is. Educate the public.
Do something about it.
Primersinmyshoe
Member
Perhaps Hi Point would be interested in retooling.
TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
The police exemption is not part of this law. The police were already exempted from the "approved list" of handguns.
This law says you have to have microstamping to get on the approved list after Jan 2010.
LE agencies don't have to refer to the list so they are exempted that way.
FieroCDSP
Member
Oddjob, to answer some of your questions:
1:Yes. See above answers. Gist is the firing pin and boltface.
2:THe unbiased studies concluded this tech was not going to be ready any time soon because the metallurgy is simply not possible. All test models became entirely unreadable within 10 shots, most were illegible enough to not be of evidentary value after 3-5. Apparently, the PRK legislators didn't read the report and everyone else did.
3:Yes. All a criminal needs to do to cast reasonable dount is to drop a few cases he might have picked up at the range, in the same caliber, and suddenly there's reasonable doubt which gun did it. Even more alarming is the fact that those other cases could implicate the people those cases did come from. If they don't have an air-tight alibi, poof, they're in jail.
And we're still not even hitting the point of fact that all a criminal has to do is file the firing pin, breech face, and hone the chamber, with a fine stone and there's no longer any marking at all. Anyone who doubts the intelligence of criminals should be reminded of how many are in politics.
1:Yes. See above answers. Gist is the firing pin and boltface.
2:THe unbiased studies concluded this tech was not going to be ready any time soon because the metallurgy is simply not possible. All test models became entirely unreadable within 10 shots, most were illegible enough to not be of evidentary value after 3-5. Apparently, the PRK legislators didn't read the report and everyone else did.
3:Yes. All a criminal needs to do to cast reasonable dount is to drop a few cases he might have picked up at the range, in the same caliber, and suddenly there's reasonable doubt which gun did it. Even more alarming is the fact that those other cases could implicate the people those cases did come from. If they don't have an air-tight alibi, poof, they're in jail.
And we're still not even hitting the point of fact that all a criminal has to do is file the firing pin, breech face, and hone the chamber, with a fine stone and there's no longer any marking at all. Anyone who doubts the intelligence of criminals should be reminded of how many are in politics.
TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
Be sure you understand exactly what has happened here before all this starts.
The law says that to get on the DOJ approved list after JAN 2010 you need microstamping. Those already on the list DO NOT.
So all these manufacturers you want to boycott can and will continue to sell TONS of handguns into California.
NO ONE makes a microstamped handgun right now, who the hell are you going to boycott anyway LOL
I don't think many people realize how bad this is. Not only has California just given a monopoly to this "technologies" inventors. All companies on the planet that want to include any new designs for sale into California come 2010 must comply. That's right around the corner. This will effect the gun industry. California is a large market for gun makers up until maybe 2010. Time will tell.
Let me tell you what I think about the California gun market. The place is surrounded by gun hating liberals. Gun owners in California know that anti-freedom liberals are doing all they can to remove their rights so they're buying up all the guns they can at an astonishing rate. In the short run this has been great for gun makers and sellers, but now the laws are catching up to them. I truly hope gun manufacturers refuse to sell to California government and law enforcement agencies like Ronnie Barrett. They need to know how it feels to be treated like second class citizens.
How will this effect the rest of the country? Have you ever heard of something called economy of scale? Manufacturers that sell large numbers of firearms may not tool up a separate production line for California. It's cheaper for them that way. That means the rest of the country gets to be part of the grand scheme of closet communists in California. You're only a pen stroke away.
Oh yeah mods, I had to re-register since no one answered the contact link to reset my password. Someone might want to do something about that
Let me tell you what I think about the California gun market. The place is surrounded by gun hating liberals. Gun owners in California know that anti-freedom liberals are doing all they can to remove their rights so they're buying up all the guns they can at an astonishing rate. In the short run this has been great for gun makers and sellers, but now the laws are catching up to them. I truly hope gun manufacturers refuse to sell to California government and law enforcement agencies like Ronnie Barrett. They need to know how it feels to be treated like second class citizens.
How will this effect the rest of the country? Have you ever heard of something called economy of scale? Manufacturers that sell large numbers of firearms may not tool up a separate production line for California. It's cheaper for them that way. That means the rest of the country gets to be part of the grand scheme of closet communists in California. You're only a pen stroke away.
Oh yeah mods, I had to re-register since no one answered the contact link to reset my password. Someone might want to do something about that
bumm
Member
It's going to be interesting to watch how things develop with this.
First off, the technology is unworkable. Look at the tip of the firing pin on ANY gun, and imagine just the serial number alone being microscopically raised on that surface. How long can that stand up under normal use?? And, as has been pointed out many times before, there are many ways criminals can avoid, or even USE the technology for their own purposes.
Second, gun manufacturers are a business. They will do whatever they need to do to make money. I'm sure there is plenty of money to be made selling to California law enforcement. However, will that one market make it worth the trouble to retool for a fantasy technology? And while most manufacturers would dump on us amateurs to make big bucks off military and law enforcement contracts, (even if that technology isn't required for those sales,) they have to be considering what happened to Smith and Wesson when they buckled under to the Clinton administration. Let the manufacturers know what we think. We DO have some clout.
Third, while it used to be true that what happened in California eventually spread to the rest of the country, I don't think that's quite as true as it used to be. Us hicks and cretins living in the rest of the USA also tend to look at the problems that California has to deal with stemming from all of it's trendy "innovations" and see them as situations to be avoided.
This is bad, but not necessarily the slippery slope it may appear to be.
First off, the technology is unworkable. Look at the tip of the firing pin on ANY gun, and imagine just the serial number alone being microscopically raised on that surface. How long can that stand up under normal use?? And, as has been pointed out many times before, there are many ways criminals can avoid, or even USE the technology for their own purposes.
Second, gun manufacturers are a business. They will do whatever they need to do to make money. I'm sure there is plenty of money to be made selling to California law enforcement. However, will that one market make it worth the trouble to retool for a fantasy technology? And while most manufacturers would dump on us amateurs to make big bucks off military and law enforcement contracts, (even if that technology isn't required for those sales,) they have to be considering what happened to Smith and Wesson when they buckled under to the Clinton administration. Let the manufacturers know what we think. We DO have some clout.
Third, while it used to be true that what happened in California eventually spread to the rest of the country, I don't think that's quite as true as it used to be. Us hicks and cretins living in the rest of the USA also tend to look at the problems that California has to deal with stemming from all of it's trendy "innovations" and see them as situations to be avoided.
This is bad, but not necessarily the slippery slope it may appear to be.
Wait till all new guns have GPS sensors/ID sensors and tracking info in them. I don't even like the GPS in my car (wife's)....I didn't know I could be watched 100% time. Judge Dredd is not far off.
The fall is frightening, but don't know when we will hit...unless we already have and this is normal times now.
The fall is frightening, but don't know when we will hit...unless we already have and this is normal times now.
Yeah, but he was during the Davis recall. That's when he should have been elected. For what it was worth (moral victory) he got my vote.
But the Republican heirachy was pushing Arnold because he was an "electable Republican". Uhhh, does this sound familiar?
So I want to make sure I understand: If I read it right, say a Ruger P94 is currently on the "list" to sell in California. As long as Ruger maintains the registration, they can keep selling that model there indefinitely without modifying it. Is that the case? If so, this shouldn't affect things too much. It just means new models of pistols won't be sold there.
Even if they said all guns had to have the microstamping, I doubt all the manufacturers would pull out. There would at least be some local manufacturers there making guns to meet the standards. They may not be name brands and may be very expensive, but someone would try to meet the market.
Even if they said all guns had to have the microstamping, I doubt all the manufacturers would pull out. There would at least be some local manufacturers there making guns to meet the standards. They may not be name brands and may be very expensive, but someone would try to meet the market.
TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
Again, LE agencies can buy weapons not on the DOJ list so companies can continue to sell into CA after 2010 with no microstamping to LEOs.
That is the case but I don't know what it takes to maintain a position on the list. Is there a "recertification" needed?
If so that might be a problem. Anyone familiar with the CA DOJ approved list renewal process?
Yep. All permissions come with an expiration date. You can get a list (and see the expiration dates) here: http://certguns.doj.ca.gov/
Recert procedures: http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/regs/chapter5.pdf
TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
Thanks. So gun makers will be scrambling to get approvals in 2008, 2009 most likely. Seems to be a 5 year or so approval, so that puts the real impact of the microstamping thing off til maybe 2014, 2015 realistically.
As long as CA DOJ doesn't drag their feet recertifying of course, which is possible I guess.
TR, I also added a link to the recert procedures.
I only scanned the list (I've got to run), but I think the approvals are less than five years. I believe it's 1 or 2 years max. You can sort the list by exp date and 12/31/08 looks like the latest date.
I only scanned the list (I've got to run), but I think the approvals are less than five years. I believe it's 1 or 2 years max. You can sort the list by exp date and 12/31/08 looks like the latest date.
Novus Collectus
Member
So if a company cannot afford to recertify or goes bankrupt, then all those gun owners who own their handguns can never sell them within the state of California ever again?
Great!
Great!
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