The Lone Haranguer
Member
As was said earlier, what void?
Can 9x18mmMakarov Guns Fill the Void Between .380 & 9mm?
- Thread starter Gun Master
- Start date
- Status
Jim Watson
Member
There was a batch of 9mm Mak heavy ball that made power factor 120, almost Minor.
I was looking at building a barrel for it in my 9mm Colt for cheap practice but there was only the one shipment and that soon sold out.
I was looking at building a barrel for it in my 9mm Colt for cheap practice but there was only the one shipment and that soon sold out.
It depends on the gun. The PM or Pistol Makarov is the original Soviet military side arm, other guns chambered in 9x18 are not built as robustly.
9x18 ammo has been neutered to accommodate weaker guns, so for the reloader with a PM yes it can, but a 19 or 21 lbs recoil spring helps.
Last edited:
Hurryin' Hoosier
Member
- Joined
- Dec 22, 2012
- Messages
- 635
I assume you're not talking about the vz.82 when you mention "other guns chambered in 9x18". I'll guarantee that my vz.82 is every bit as "robust" as my Pistolet Makarova.
Last edited:
Gun Master
Member
CZ-82 9x18mm Makarov
Great grip, control, balance, accuracy, and 12 rds. of power to boot !
I love (opps! "like") my CZ-82 !
Great grip, control, balance, accuracy, and 12 rds. of power to boot !
Last edited:
Deaf Smith
Member
What void Kemosabe?
A hot .380 is almost the same as a weak 9mm.
Standard pressure 9mm, from a Glock 26 length barrel rarely gets past 1100 fps for a 115 gr bullet. Top .380s will get a 80 or 80 gr slug about 990 fps from a 2.75 inch bbl.
So the 9mm adds 20 gr in weight and 100 fps for the same diameter slug.
Now I have a Mak EG 9x18. Good gun. But you can get a small 9mm, use standard pressure 9mm HPs and be somewhat ahead in power but with same size gun unless you go to the size of the TCP/LCP autos.
To me the .380 is a pocket gun concept the next step is the 9mm.
Deaf
el Godfather
Member
- Joined
- Feb 4, 2012
- Messages
- 1,847
17!I have 17 Makarovs, so I'm a fan.
I carry a Ruger LC9. Lighter and a little more powerful than the Makarov.
Probably all the models ever made?
Gun Master
Member
Guns!!!!!!
Deaf, I like 'em all !!!!!
Deaf, I like 'em all !!!!!
Hurryin' Hoosier
Member
- Joined
- Dec 22, 2012
- Messages
- 635
Thanks for catching my typo. Obviously, I meant my vz.82, not 52.I love (opps! "like") my CZ-82 !
It doesn't work that way. We are dealing with different dynamics, like higher pressures, the 380 and the 9x18 are nearly the same, never going to fill any gaps. You would be better off comparing them to the 38, which also can't handle the higher pressure of the 357 especially in old guns.
http://gundata.org/blog/post/fbi-handgun-ballistics/
http://gundata.org/blog/post/fbi-handgun-ballistics/
North Bender
Member
It should go without saying that all the 9x18 military pistols were built to withstand the military ammunition spec of roughly 92 - 93 grains at an approximate velocity of 1050 fps. As after market 9x18 ammo came available that approaches 1200 fps and/or 100 - 120 grains , you need the stronger frames of the Makarov PM and cz-82 and possibly stronger recoil springs to safely shoot. But buy and shoot standard 95 - grains all day long in Combloc pistols.
The thing about 9x18 is there are no guns made it that make it a compelling choice for concealed carry, particularly vis-a-vis the newer crop of little 9x19s. I have guns in 9x18 and don't understand me to being saying the couldn't work but they just don't compare very well to more modern designs.
A makarov is a good gun but there are choices in 9x19 that are the same size or smaller. The CZ 82 is bigger than a glock 26 and honestly about the size of a G19. Also those guns are blow back actions and have a fair amount of felt recoil for their diminuative cartridge. I cannot think of one reason to choose to carry one of 9x18 guns available to me over some of the similar sized or smaller guns available to me in 9x19.
There are no 9x18s that are as small as many of the pocket gun .380s.
Lastly ammunition choices are somewhat limited in 9x18.
I like my 9x18s and can think of worse guns to have to use for self defense but I don't see myself ever deliberately choosing one over the myriad of other guns out there.
A makarov is a good gun but there are choices in 9x19 that are the same size or smaller. The CZ 82 is bigger than a glock 26 and honestly about the size of a G19. Also those guns are blow back actions and have a fair amount of felt recoil for their diminuative cartridge. I cannot think of one reason to choose to carry one of 9x18 guns available to me over some of the similar sized or smaller guns available to me in 9x19.
There are no 9x18s that are as small as many of the pocket gun .380s.
Lastly ammunition choices are somewhat limited in 9x18.
I like my 9x18s and can think of worse guns to have to use for self defense but I don't see myself ever deliberately choosing one over the myriad of other guns out there.
Ash
Member
The reason the Mak round lost popularity is that it was not ever chambered in Western-made pistols.
North Bender
Member
I'm not sure it's valid to say the 9x18 lost popularity.
But why wasn't it chambered in western guns? because there was no void to fill
lost popularity may not be exactely the raight term, but it never caught on here. It was never popular enough to begin with. (here)
SFsc616171
Member
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2010
- Messages
- 213
The .380 existed before the "launch" of the Soviet empire. The Soviets always thought that they could 'do one better'. The .380, if my memory is correct, is 9x17. So, the Soviets designed the 9x18 Makarov series. The 7.65 Tokarev is a 'dial-up' of .30 Luger.
So, the Makarov -IS- in between .380 (9mm Kurtz) and 9x19 (9mm Luger).
So, the Makarov -IS- in between .380 (9mm Kurtz) and 9x19 (9mm Luger).
Gun Master
Member
9x18mm Mak
It (9x18mm) doesn't seem to have much of a half life chance, at present, in the western world. Since it is slightly more powerful than 9x17 (.380), it would appear to be a possible viable variation. Alas, such is not the case.
C'est la vie !
Correctomundo ! A space from one place to another place, or a void.
It (9x18mm) doesn't seem to have much of a half life chance, at present, in the western world. Since it is slightly more powerful than 9x17 (.380), it would appear to be a possible viable variation. Alas, such is not the case.
C'est la vie !
Last edited:
It's not just the "one better" philosophy. Remember that the Soviet Union and Russia prevailed in several wars - including the one that had just ended when the 9x18 was developed - by retreating hundreds of miles into their own territory, enduring terrible conditions, and seeing the invaders' long supply lines and inability to keep funneling men and material into the eastern front gradually sap Napoleon, Hitler, and others of their ability to achieve a final victory.
With that in mind, Soviet designers were keen to avoid any commonality of parts/goods/material with non-aligned countries. The last thing they wanted was an invading force being able to re-supply off Soviet depots/caches/captured factories. Often, they were different simply to be different.
The void CANT be filled because with equal weight bullets the difference between 9x17 and 9x18 is < 100fps while the difference between 9x18 and 9x19 is about 300fps.
The 7.62x25 and 7.62x54 both use a .311 inch bore (give or take). The 7.62x25 is basically a .30 Mauser with a .311 bullet (and loaded hotter). Using the same bore size would allow barrels for guns and bullets to be made with fewer changes to equipment. It was probably a practical/logistical decision. Pretty smart.
The .30 Luger was the basis for the 9mm Luger, not the 7.62x25.
Ash
Member
No, the 9mm Luger was based on the .30 Luger with the case blown out.
I own 5 "Makarov" pistols and really enjoy shooting them. The Russian is carried in a rig below my steering wheel when I'm driving my Sunday go to meeting truck. I paid less than $150 each for a couple of Hungarian guns in 9x18.
I ccw one of the pocket 380's (KT or S&W) or a KT PF-9. The Maks are great little guns but really are much heavier than the polymer guns so carrying one really doesn't make a lot of sense. For the same amount of weight and size you can get a 9mm with greater capacity and "power". I haven't done actual loaded weights but those steel Maks are pretty heavy as are the Polish 9x18 guns. The Hungarians seem to be a bit lighter but are not all steel.
Another consideration is ammo choices and availability. In normal times(if we ever see them again)I can find 25 different brands and weights of 9mm FMJ whereas I can generally find ONE type of Mak ammo if I'm lucky. I buy all my 9x18 online because the price is just so much lower than the local guys.
I ccw one of the pocket 380's (KT or S&W) or a KT PF-9. The Maks are great little guns but really are much heavier than the polymer guns so carrying one really doesn't make a lot of sense. For the same amount of weight and size you can get a 9mm with greater capacity and "power". I haven't done actual loaded weights but those steel Maks are pretty heavy as are the Polish 9x18 guns. The Hungarians seem to be a bit lighter but are not all steel.
Another consideration is ammo choices and availability. In normal times(if we ever see them again)I can find 25 different brands and weights of 9mm FMJ whereas I can generally find ONE type of Mak ammo if I'm lucky. I buy all my 9x18 online because the price is just so much lower than the local guys.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
