Carry with chamber empty or loaded?

[mushinspace]

Folks,

Is there a reason, besides preventing a potential accidental discharge, to NOT carry a round in the chamber in a modern semi-auto?

It seems that most current models have various built-in safeties to prevent such a thing, is it still that common an occurrence?

--Sam

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

My defensive sidearms, when carried on my person, are always loaded. Always. An unloaded gun - which is essentially what you have when carrying chamber empty - is little better than a bludgeon or throwing object. You don't always have time or both hands free to load your chamber. There is some room to play with this for home defense, as (hopefully) you have some warning, distance and time to get ready, but I would rather not have to remember what my guns' readiness state is. If they are always loaded, you always know.

It seems that most current models have various built-in safeties to prevent such a thing, is it still that common an occurrence?

These passive safeties - designed to prevent the gun from firing if dropped or struck - are not proof against your wrapping your finger around the trigger and pulling it. You must rely on the safety between your ears and adherence to the Four Safety Rules.

 

[WRGADog]

I carry my PM9 fully loaded in my DeSantis Nemisis pocket holster whenever I leave my home. I would never carry without a round in the chamber. I also keep my XDm 40 and one extra magazine in my truck at all times.

 

[gmh1013]

I never carry an auto with round in chamber .....thats why I carry a revolver....with 5 .357's in my SP101

 

[deafdave3]

My EDC is always loaded, with one in the chamber. Always.

 

[hardluk1]

I never carry with a empty chamber on pistols. 2 kel tec and two glocks. If you need it and the chambers empty and the BG is close might as well through it at them. Have carried for 26 years always ready and chambered.

 

[rellascout]

Interesting read.... on carrying Israeli. I personally do not carry that way but there are reasons that one might carry in condition 3.

http://thinkinggunfighter.blogspot.com/2010/09/myths-of-israeli-method-of-carry-or-why.html

 

[jjboogie]

I am against safeties and against empty chambers!

 

[9mmepiphany]

There are very few practical reasons to carry a gun for self-defense without a round in the chamber.

The only one that comes to mind are folks who cannot understand that a Single Action Only (SAO) pistol, like the 1911, should not be carried with the hammer down on a chambered round. If you choose not to carry it in Condition One (chambered round, cocked hammer and thumb safety applied), it is safer to carry it in Condition Three ( hammer down, empty chamber) than in Condition Two (hammer down, loaded chamber)

 

[AKPastor]

I've been thinking a lot on this as I have just added my first auto to my collection. I bought a 1911 and I have heard that the best way to carry is condition one. I know that there are safeties. I know safe gun handling and my trigger finger is properly trained. I am still uncomfortable for no logical reason. I am used to carrying a loaded DA revolver. When revolver carrying, I always fully load the cylinder.

I think I am just not as familiar with my 1911 and need to continue training with it. So while I rack up range time, I am carrying a revolver. When I have trained enough to feel confident and fully competent, then I hope to be able to carry my 1911 as I really do believe it should be carried - in condition one.

 

[Big Bill]

I carry my CZ 75BD loaded and decocked. I also carry my SP 101 loaded and uncocked.

 

[foolsgold80z]

I carry my CZ PCR BD loaded and decocked. If I move to my 1911 for CC I will go condition one.
I would not carry a hammer with me for self defense. An unloaded gun is basically a pretty hammer.

 

[DougW]

I only carry fully loaded for all the reasons mentioned above. My Glocks are carried in paddle holsters, so they stay chambered and ready all the time, even when stored (in the holsters, of course). Rule around here is if it is in a holster, it is chambered. NONE of the long guns are chambered, but then, I don't usually carry a rifle or shotgun slung everyday (though sometimes I wished I could!).

 

[LiveLife]

A pistol is simply a "weapon" - a tool we use to defend ourselves with from immediate threat to our life.

If you knew someone/wild animal was hunting you down to kill you, would you carry a dull knife/sword? How about an axe without the head? Of course not! You would carry weapons/tools that are "battle ready" sharp and fully loaded.

You carry a weapon (that happens to be a firearm) because you have concern for your safety. If you did not, you would not be carrying any weapon in the first place.

A quote from Han Solo as he was teaching a native to fight the Storm Troopers:
"You are prey, not a predator. Think like a prey."

 

[ohwell]

I carry my semi autos in C3 I practice racking the slide and drawing at the same time and I think you'd be surprised at how good one can become at it. Its what your used to that matters. As far as new guns and built in safeties go nothing is 100 per cent, you can still make mistakes no matter how you carry. Type Plaxico Burress and Glock into any search engine see what you find.

 

[FruitCake]

I always carry with chamber empty unless I am in a bad area or I feel unconfortable with my surroundings. Why? Because that's what I prefer. Just because I carry a weapon it doesn't mean it has to be chambered regardless of how most feel. I am not most I am me.

 

[Skribs]

bds, it's faster to rack the slide than it is to attach an axe-head to a handle or sharpen a sword. Would you carry a samurai sword unsheathed on your pant leg, or would you have it sheathed on your belt or over your shoulder?

I'm one of those right now that is less trained, a bit afraid of my gun (not "omg an evil black thing" but "hey, a bullet to my leg (or other nearby extremity) could really be bad for me"), and who doesn't anticipate danger that much. Rellascout made a very good post, IMO, to support empty chamber carrying. However, I probably will carry chamber full once I have more confidence and some training.

 

[deafdave3]

You know, if you ever find yourself in a self-defense situation, there's always a possibility that you may be spending the rest of your life trying to rack the slide.

 

[hardluk1]

I can never quite figure out where the good areas and the bad areas are and just have assume that stuff happens when not expected. If a BG walks by you on mainstreet during the day light dressed well and demands your money while holding your arm you can not draw and cycle your pistol with one hand. OR you most likely will need your free arm to hold off someone while backing a couple steps to draw or firearm. Most all pistols out there are fullly safe chambered and designed to be carried that way so practice and do so. I can under stand a newbe to CC worry'n but i like many have many years of carry behind us and never had a weapon discharge unexspectedly yet.

 

[highorder]

Wise words on carrying with an empty chamber:

You know, if you ever find yourself in a self-defense situation, there's always a possibility that you may be spending the rest of your life trying to rack the slide.

 

[Greg528iT]

Thanks rellascout, for a well thought out and comprehensive answer.

 

[Fastcast]

I've carried both ways but usually chambered. It depends on the pistol and the situation. I don't buy into the rigid societal rules of the masses. One size fits all.

"Life is like a box of chocolates. You never know what you're gonna get"

The chambered round may also be the one that takes your life, if caught off guard and a BG gets a hold of your weapon. There's no rules that say all BG's who intend to do harm, have a pistol of their own.

Carry anyway you feel comfortable and forget about what everyone else thinks. Just be sure to carry because a pistol in C3 sure as hell beats a hammer or militaries all over the world would have carried hammers for sidearms.

 

[Skribs]

You know, if you ever find yourself in a self-defense situation, there's always a possibility that you may be spending the rest of your life trying to rack the slide.

#1 In Rellascout's post covered this really well. With a 2 second draw, and a half second to rack the slide, it has to be 2 sec < T < 2.5 sec for it to make a difference whether or not you had one in the chamber. If you have one arm available, I can see it being more useful, but it seems to me the C1 method doesn't have that big of an advantage over the C3 method, compared to what everyone makes it out to be. Yes, it is faster, but I don't think it's the end-all-be-all of a firefight.

 

[huntsman]

MINIMAL TRAINING. Sadly, many if not most gun owners do not train regularly. In fact, I’d hazard a guess that most gun owners don’t train much at all. And it was for those people that the Israeli Method was designed. Going back to Fairbairn, the chamber empty carry was designed to allow those with minimal training to safely carry a firearm. That was also the rationale behind the method early on for Israel. We do a lot of carrying and administrative handling of a firearm, not so much actual shooting. So recognizing that failure and working it into the system is a good idea.

and how many will admit to lack of training? the problem is ego, even the most casual pistolaro fancies himself a shootist.

very informative post.

link to the Mas article

http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/ayoob103.html

 

[InkEd]

I believe a chambered round is the way to go. Condition 3 is IMHO an outdated method of carry. YMMV. If you don't feel safe with it carry a different type of gun with a manual safety. Personally, I am the exact opposite and prefer a carry gun that only requires me to draw and fire. That's why I lean toward striker fired pistols.