Carrying a gun you like.

[GEM]

I avoid anything resembling a bad situation. So unless I’m involved in a Walmart mass shooting, or a home invasion, it’s not likely for me to be involved.

When I say I don’t like training, it’s not that I don’t like shooting and using my gun. I don’t like the training others say are required. The training geared only towards semi autos. The training that requires split second draws and shooting the badguy without thought. Shooting in self defense without thought is a horrible thing to practice. Because you might shoot the badguy as he surrenders, or accidentally shoot a non-combatant out of reflex. Just like wild Bill Hickok did with his deputy.

With no offense, that is just baloney if you seek out the qualified instructors. The entire spectrum of how and when to use a firearm is covered. Classes on revolver usage are offered. Deescalation, non firearm responses are taught. Situational awareness, legal aspects, etc. - all are available. Your post and arguments are reduced to the ridiculous with such a statement.

Also, I am a firm believer in empirical tests, square range groups are really trivial tests. Competitions and classes can show you if your chosen firearm and abilities are really optimal.

Living in fear - interesting, I'm of the opinion that many males won't train or take a class because they either feel that they are intrinsic great warriors or are afraid to test themselves in a 'manly' endeavor and be found to be a beginner. That's a fear. The emotional reaction is when one's view of self is challenged.

This is a somewhat free country. If you think that a single action revolver and no training is optimal for you, well it is your life. However, if you miss, it's your life. If you shoot an innocent expect the consequences.

 

[Kleanbore]

Much has been made about moving to survive
an attack. One word has been missing:
Retreat

Retreat, if safely possible, is always the best strategy.

 

[StrykerByte.45]

i am aware of none. We recently had an entire thread on the subject.

That's the most unrealistic thing anyone has said in this entire thread

 

[trackskippy]

I avoid anything resembling a bad situation. So unless I’m involved in a Walmart mass shooting, or a home invasion, it’s not likely for me to be involved.

When I say I don’t like training, it’s not that I don’t like shooting and using my gun. I don’t like the training others say are required. The training geared only towards semi autos. The training that requires split second draws and shooting the badguy without thought. Shooting in self defense without thought is a horrible thing to practice. Because you might shoot the badguy as he surrenders, or accidentally shoot a non-combatant out of reflex. Just like wild Bill Hickok did with his deputy.

Youre misunderstanding the "without thought" part. You should absolutely be "thinking" about everything going on, you just should be at the point in your skills, that you dont have to think about the "act of shooting".

You shouldnt have to think about any aspect of accessing, deploying, or shooting the gun, just focusing on the target(s), and shooting as necessary, as your brain calls for it.

And as far as where you might run into a bad situation, dont fool yourself, you really have no control over where or when that might be, no matter how safe an area you think you might live in or visit.

Much has been made about moving to survive
an attack. One word has been missing:
Retreat

Sure, if you can and its the prudent thing to do. Just moving makes you a harder target.

And regardless of your training, how do you deal with someone who couldn't be bothered to go beyond basic gun handling and maybe shooting skills, if they even have that, and starts shooting at a perceived threat in a public place with no warning to you? The first indication you need to get out of there, may well be when you become collateral damage and get hit with an errant round that they couldn't keep on target.

So now what you're saying is that everybody has to go some type of danger of waiting's training just to be allowed to be in public? [/QUOTE]
All Im saying is, there are a lot of people out there, with basically no training and skills carrying guns and think they are good to go, simply because they carry a gun. You need to pay attention to everyone. The threat may not necessarily be a bad guy.

I dont live my life in fear, but I am fully aware of, and pay attention to a lot of things that some seem to shrug off. A lot of people have phones and drive while using them, and thats just as bad as carrying a gun without the skills needed, and actually, a very close correlation, as it seems driving these days, is as difficult as shooting for many, even without talking/texting on the phone.

 

[StrykerByte.45]

Fighting is a tragedy. There are no winners only losers.

 

[trackskippy]

Exactly.
I don't think there's anything wrong with training either. If one feels that they need it then they probably need it. Not everyone can pick such things up quickly. Fighting of any sort is a dreadful experience.

EVERYONE needs and benefits from training. And you do need to continually update and maintain it, at least if you hope to keep up.

If you have to fight, whos going to be better off, those who do nothing to prepare, or those who do?

Fighting is a tragedy. There are no winners only losers.

Says you.

 

[Kleanbore]

The only thing realistic to me when it comes to gun fighting that those who have to train a lot will never be better than those that gun fighting comes naturally to.

I don't see how anyone can believe that muscle memory and the other things gained through training will "come naturally' to anyone. That applies to defensive shooting, fencing, figure skating. pilot training, and many other things.

 

[Kleanbore]

That's the most unrealistic thing anyone has said in this entire thread

By definition, fear involves the anticipation or awareness of danger, alarm, or the expectation of harm

No concealed carriers whom I know step out in fear on a regular basis. Rather, the purpose of carrying is prudent risk mitigation.

Again, we recently had an entire thread on this subject.

 

[Kleanbore]

The part about manually cocking the hammer is what I would worry about using a single-action revolver, not only does it take time to do, but it gets the gun out of position so then you need more time to aim correctly. For this reason I think double-action is preferable.

There is another important factor to consider. the single action trigger pull is ideal at the range, but in a dynamic use of force incident, it creates a significant risk of an unintentional discharge.

Before the semi-auto era, many LEO revolvers were double action only.

 

[GEM]

Good point, Mas has documented cases where officers cocked the hammer on a revolver and had a controversial discharge. They then went to trial. Also, decocking a gun and holstering (recommended if one takes a training class) can be exciting with an SA trigger. A 1911, you can put the safety back on (recommended).

 

[WrongHanded]

Bill Jordan could hit an aspirin tossed into the air, drawing from the hip. With a revolver.

I'll take your word for that. I only saw video of him shooting an aspirin in half whilst it was sitting on a table. But I did also see that he could draw on the time it took a ping pong ball to fall into the space left in his empty holster, and all sorts of other quick draw stuff. Though him being amazing was not why he wrote the book. The way it reads, he primarily wrote if for LEOs, not trick shooters.

In the book he advocated for DA rather than SA revolvers, and for a very good reason. That reason was speed. And that was precisely my point in suggesting the book. If the OP wants to carry a revolvers, perhaps Jordan's book can convince him that a double action is a far superior choice for real world defensive shooting.

 

[StrykerByte.45]

By definition, fear involves the anticipation or awareness of danger, alarm, or the expectation of harm

No concealed carriers whom I know step out in fear on a regular basis. Rather, the purpose of carrying is prudent risk mitigation.

Again, we recently had an entire thread on this subject.

When its your time, its your time.

I doubt many members in these discussions give much thought to the life of the attackers. Well, it's evident. I dont judge anyone. We all have a purpose. We all are blessed in our own ways. Everything happens for a reason.

Again, as I entered the discussion saying to the OP: Carry what you like.

The calling is yours.

This is "The High Road"

 

[Kleanbore]

I just recommended it, I’m someone.

/i'm sorry--I should have specified "anyone with relevant knowledge experience"

Surely you realize that the “coming towards” or “going away shot” is the easiest to make

Doe you belleve that the head will iot be bobbing and weaving as the man runs? Head shots are a high-risk-low return proposition except in stationary hostage rescue situations.There is a reason why people are trained to shoot at center mass or the largest body area available to them.

Also, the perp with the rock/machete/knife had 23 feet to look down my barrel and the whole time my target is getting bigger. Basketball = slam dunk

You can draw while a man armed with a contact weapon and who presented a lawful threat is still 23 feat away? How many Tueller drills have you tried?

Cops are obligated to subdue, if possible. I’m not a cop, lol.

That doesn't address the substance of Jeff's post.

I will get it done with one shot at two feet like I said in my first post to your scenario.

You may "get it done" with one shot, but that's really questionable. And if he makes it to within two feet with a blade, you are in a world of hurt.

 

[GEM]

Competition can be your friend in testing. Every once in awhile for grins, someone will run a lever gun, bolt rifle, a double barrel shotgun or a SAA in IDPA or the like. It's fun to do but will show you how it handicaps in an intense incident. Did they work in the past, yes? Would all those for real SAA guys in the 1880s - buy modern semis - in a heart beat.

It's like the shotgun vs AR SD debate. Run each in matches or classes and see what works for you. Electronic discussions of stopping power are not what should make you decide. You need to run the guns under some stress for accuracy, speed of use, malfunction processing, administrative handling (reloads, safety, etc.).

I recall a funny TV incident. There was a show, Sleepy Hollow. In it a tough version of Ichabod Crane makes it to our times and has to fight a resurrected Headless Horseman. There is a fight where Crane picks up a Glock from a police officer partner of his and shoots. The partner says: Shot him again. Crane says but I shot my one shot. Oops! However, the Horseman after taking down a police cruiser is overjoyed to sling a bandoleer of shotgun shells and carry a modern shotgun AND an AR, which he uses quite often.

 

[Kleanbore]

When its your time, its your time.

I would like to influence that.

I doubt many members in these discussions give much thought to the life of the attackers.

Eh?

 

[Jeff White]

I don’t think there is anything to be gained by continuing this discussion.