Cast lead hollow points for deer

savagelover

savagelover

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Feb 7, 2012
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Looking for advice on using cast 358 bullets for feet hunting with either my revolver or my Rossi 92 in 357 cal. I have read perhaps to many articles about cast hollow point bullets not being a good choice as they may fragment unpon impact. What's your opinions on this. I doubt the distance will be any further than 50 yards in the woods. I know the hardness of the bullet needs to be taking into consideration. Thanks.
 
savagelover said:
Is it the same with hollow point bullets with gas check s
Click to expand...

I remember in a Lyman Reloading manual an article Lyman created on a two piece cast bullet. They created the molds so the cast could make a very hard allow base, and then glue a softer (hollowpoint I assume) front. Of course it was the best thing since sliced bread. Toaster must have burnt the project as I can't find that article with a web search.

I am going to say, if you want 357 Magnum velocities and expansion, a jacketed hollowpoint is probably the best option. The cores are dead soft, the jacket keeps the thing together in the barrel. You should be able to push a 158 JHP to 1700 fps in a lever action, not sure a cast bullet will go that fast without stripping.
 
Slamfire said:
I remember in a Lyman Reloading manual an article Lyman created on a two piece cast bullet. They created the molds so the cast could make a very hard allow base, and then glue a softer (hollowpoint I assume) front. Of course it was the best thing since sliced bread. Toaster must have burnt the project as I can't find that article with a web search.

I am going to say, if you want 357 Magnum velocities and expansion, a jacketed hollowpoint is probably the best option. The cores are dead soft, the jacket keeps the thing together in the barrel. You should be able to push a 158 JHP to 1700 fps in a lever action, not sure a cast bullet will go that fast without stripping.
Click to expand...
Buffalo Bore moves even faster from a rifle, could that be why they go hard cast?
 
Slamfire said:
I remember in a Lyman Reloading manual an article Lyman created on a two piece cast bullet. They created the molds so the cast could make a very hard allow base, and then glue a softer (hollowpoint I assume) front. Of course it was the best thing since sliced bread. Toaster must have burnt the project as I can't find that article with a web search.

I am going to say, if you want 357 Magnum velocities and expansion, a jacketed hollowpoint is probably the best option. The cores are dead soft, the jacket keeps the thing together in the barrel. You should be able to push a 158 JHP to 1700 fps in a lever action, not sure a cast bullet will go that fast without stripping.
Click to expand...

Yeah I read that article years ago.
 
The Buffalo Bore Deer Grenade is a soft lead hollow point and they load it to “+P” levels in the 45 Colt. Maybe they can get away with it because it is a more massive bullet than the 357.

For deer, I think both an HP or a wide medlar would work fine.
 
I can't quite bring myself to use a .357 on deer. I know a lot of folks use it successfully - but I wonder how many failures don't get talked about. I just really like the extra bit of insurance that a .44/.45/.50 provides.

Having said that, if I ever decide to do it, I'd consider one of two strategies. The first would be a JHP driven as fast as I could manage, with the knowledge that if I wait for the perfect broadside heart/lung shot I should have a good result - and that if I get impatient and don't wait for that shot, I might have a real damn mess on my hands. The other strategy would be a big solid, like a 180 WFN GC, and a shot where I can break bones. The latter is my usual M.O., though with bigger bullets. I consider it the most reliable - and least spectacular - shot available to the revolver man.

As far as hardness: if the bullet fits the gun, it doesn't really matter. If it doesn't fit the gun, it doesn't really matter either. In the former case, just about everything will work, and in the latter case, nothing really will. Likewise, hardness isn't going to make a difference in terminal performance either, as long as an extraordinarily hard bullet doesn't shatter. I personally would stick with my usual 1-16 tin-lead, and utterly ignore the "hard cast" nonsense from the bullet advertisers.
 
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Based on what I've read, gathered, know, think I know, and generally understand....

If you need a hollow point, I'd go jacketed. If you don't need an expanding bullet, I'd go with a large flat meplat in hardcast with a gas check.

With a hollow point you need to match the expansion window to the velocity of the firearm. So whilst you might find a load that will work well from both a rifle and a handgun, it will be trickier. Hardcast gas checked lead with a wide flat nose will work in a wider velocity range. For deer, I doubt you'd need more than a 160gr, and should be able to drive it fast enough from even a 4" barrel on a revolver to create a 7/8" or greater diameter wound channel all the way through a broadside shot. The faster it goes, the larger the hole will be.

But here are some useful links:

http://www.rathcoombe.net/sci-tech/ballistics/methods.html

https://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/.357+Magnum.html
 
.38 Special, ^^^^
this
... two strategies. The first would be a JHP driven as fast as I could manage ...
Click to expand...
...
The other strategy would be a big solid, like a 180 WFN GC, and a shot where I can break bones
Click to expand...
I've always been a proponent of 2 holes (through and through penetration) being better than one, i.e. pneumothorax in addition to organ/structural bone destruction, favoring a WFN cast. Having said that, I recognize that it may be tough to get a handgun .35 caliber HP of any configuration up to enough speed to consistently ensure expansion, while at the same time it may not have enough caliber to take advantage of a wide flat meplat. No further expounding given we're discussing .35 caliber.

-jb, nicely played by .38 Special, IMHO
 
Hollow point cast bullets will shatter in the deer. The meplate will expand and punch a hole on both sides of the deer.
Click to expand...
Well there we are. I'm here to learn. Certainly NOT to contradict.
If a cast HP shatters, it seems to be the antithesis of penetration. And if it does, how does the meplate [sic] expand if it has shattered? I haven't had hundreds of deer experience [shrug] but the shatter at the same time as expand at the same time as punch a hole on both sides is just confounding me. Certainly most anything is possible though.
The input is always appreciated and thought provoking. :)

-jb, clearly stuff can happen.
 
savagelover said:
Is it the same with hollow point bullets with gas check s
Click to expand...

Hollow points are a PITA to cast well compared to flat nose bullets. Then you have to be very careful with the alloy to make sure it doesn't grenade in the animal, especially if it hits a bone. So I think a gas checked bullet with a big meplat is a simpler solution. You don't need hard cast to shoot accurately, especially with a gas check.

I have shot a deer with a 198 grain flat nose bullet in 30-06 and three with patched round balls out of muzzleloaders. The flat nose bullet was 10 to 12 BHN with a big meplat and a gas check. I had full penetration in one side and out the other and the exit hole indicated I had expansion. The round balls were all dead soft pure lead and they penetrated like crazy and flattened. All projectiles were moving between 1500 and 1900 FPS at the muzzle. None of the deer went far even with one of the round balls being a "Texas heart shot."

I think 357 out of a rifle is marginal and you should use a really big bullet (170 to 180 grains) and keep distances short (under 75 yards). I'd be reluctant to use a revolver to take a deer in this cartridge.
 
Having hunted deer with .357, I do not recommend HP bullets. .357 is marginal for deer, even in a carbine. I know a lot of folks claim a .357 out of a rifle is "just like" a 30-30, but it's not. Even out of a rifle you will be lucky to get 1700FPS. At that velocity, when it comes to deer and creating a blood trail, you need penetration, not explosive expansion or the "dumping" of energy. stick with solid wide meplat lead or a soft point jacketed.
 
I can't explain the advantages of a wide metplat on a technical basis, but it has to do with dynamics. The wide metplat will do more damage, more "smackdown" than a more rounded profile, which tends to pass through. More of a wound channel with the wide metplat.

A semi-wadcutter will act much the same way.

Hard lead can be driven faster without leading the barrel, but won't expand. (but a wide metplat will cut a larger wound channel without expanding) Soft lead will expand, but can't be driven as fast. One way to cheat, or slow down velocity without losing energy is to use a very heavy bullet to slow things down. I think your best bet is with a 200 grain bullet, with wide metplat. That way you can use softer lead, gain some expansion, but retain energy. A lot of the old .35" rifle rounds did well with 200 grain bullets. Yes they drove them faster, (sometimes not by a whole lot) but bullet weight beats velocity.

I have a LEE mold that throws a 200 grain gas-check bullet with wide metplat. That's the only bullet I use in my Rossi. I load it hot over WW296. I don't hunt with the Rossi, but I do carry it hiking and trekking in Bear country, and feel more confident than I would with any lighter bullet. Cast kind of "medium" soft/hard, I think it would be ideal for 50-75 yard shots on deer. I don't think a .357 carbine is a bad choice for that type of hunting.
 
I am casting for my Henry single shot .357 Maximum rifle. A couple of years ago I was sure I needed a hp. After 2 years of reading and shooting the rifle, I have settled on using a 180 grain, gas checked wfn, and softer alloy. I can get to 1900 fps. My alloy is 11.5 bhn. I may get a little leading, but I only need to shoot a few rounds.
YMMV, hc18flyer
 
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