CC recomendaiton?

[FlyingTexan]

Right now I have a Walther PPQ but a little on the nervous side about using it for CC. I LOVE my walther PPQ but the main thing that bothers me is the safety. I've never felt a better trigger pull but wish it had a secondary safety built in. I was just handling my buddy's Ruger SR9 and while the gun doesn't feel anywhere near as good in my hands I really do appreciate the secondary safety switch.

So I'm thinking of tricking out my PPQ for home defense and looking for another pistol that would make a great CC. I'd like to either go 9mm or 380. I'm not worried about clip capacity. I live in Texas with some hot summers so something that is easier to carry with a good safety system is my main goal.

First post so be gentle and thanks for the help!

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Your main safety is between your ears. If you keep your finger off the trigger the gun will not fire. (unless the gun is malfunctioning)

The Walther site states:

5. 3 safeties.
Two drop safeties and a firing pin block for safe carry.

I really don't understand what more would be needed?

Welcome to the forum...

 

[FlyingTexan]

Yea everyone says that until something happens. The main safety is between the ears but statistics exist for a reason. I've never been in a situation where I need to pull and draw it on someone, hope I never do, but I'd like to look for something with more than just a trigger safety. The SR9 system is great but the ergonomics just don't cut it. The brain might be the best option but it isn't the only and I'd rather double up. PPQ is feeling like a pickup/home gun. I want something else for CC.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Yea everyone says that until something happens. The main safety is between the ears but statistics exist for a reason. I've never been in a situation where I need to pull and draw it on someone, hope I never do, but I'd like to look for something with more than just a trigger safety. The SR9 system is great but the ergonomics just don't cut it. The brain might be the best option but it isn't the only and I'd rather double up. PPQ is feeling like a pickup/home gun. I want something else for CC.

Main problem there, since you have been shooting the PPQ for a long time you are going to have to do a lot of training to get used to turning of the safety before you fire.

Just a note, many many police departments have been using a Glock as their service weapon for Decades and there have been no reports of accidents because of the lack of a manual safety. You know full well if there was a danger there every department would have changed handguns because of the lawyers fearing law suits.

Unless you are carrying a SA handgun cocked and locked there is no reason for a manual safety. Revolvers have been carried for well over 100 years and have no manual safety.

 

[FlyingTexan]

I guess we could argue there's no reason for a safety at all if you know what you're doing but regardless I'd like the comfort of having it. Problem is outside of the Ruger I don't know what has that system. I'm asking the Q for a reason and it wasn't to be argued out of my opinion. I don't particularly like the PPQ for it's safety reasons. A 5.5lb trigger pull on that gun is incredible but I want more for CC. I get it you see me as a complete idiot for wanting a second safety. I'm a complete newb showing my lack of absolute knowledge about firearms for asking a question. I'm sure you know infinitely more and really wanted to show it by offering the most obvious of answers as a means of belittlement for wasting precious space of your forum. Now maybe someone has a constructive answer of nice 380 or 9mm that mimic the ruger but with better ergonomics. It was actually in my first post. It's funny when people talk about the brain being the ultimate weapon then don't bother to use it. Had you read my first post and thought about it you'd know immediately that your response had absolutely nothing to offer. Sorry if I'm coming off as a dick it was not the intention by any means it just really rolls me when people speak down to others seeking knowledge. I'm an airline pilot, not a gun aficionado so how about you cut me some slack and one day when you decide to ask something about a plane I don't knock you down as being the village idiot because you don't know everything?


Thanks!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=am-Qdx6vky0

 

[TestPilot]

Your want for a pistol with manual firing inhibitor deivce separate from a trigger is not a problem.

The problem is when someone asserts that such a device is an "added safety." It is not. While pistols with such device can be safer in certain situations, it can be more dangerous in other situations, so the user is just exchanging one risk for another.

In response to your query, S&W do offer some model of M&P that comes with a manual firing ihibitor deivce that is separate from the trigger.

FN also offer models with such device on their FNS line.

There are a number of 380ACP pistols with such thumb switch, but I cannot recommend any of them with a clear conscience. Most of them comes with "abbreviated" type lever that increases manipulation failure risk, and on top of that most of them do not have ambidextrous lever which makes them useless for back-up use to be drawn with the left hand.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I guess we could argue there's no reason for a safety at all if you know what you're doing but regardless I'd like the comfort of having it. Problem is outside of the Ruger I don't know what has that system. I'm asking the Q for a reason and it wasn't to be argued out of my opinion. I don't particularly like the PPQ for it's safety reasons. A 5.5lb trigger pull on that gun is incredible but I want more for CC. I get it you see me as a complete idiot for wanting a second safety. I'm a complete newb showing my lack of absolute knowledge about firearms for asking a question. I'm sure you know infinitely more and really wanted to show it by offering the most obvious of answers as a means of belittlement for wasting precious space of your forum. Now maybe someone has a constructive answer of nice 380 or 9mm that mimic the ruger but with better ergonomics. It was actually in my first post. It's funny when people talk about the brain being the ultimate weapon then don't bother to use it. Had you read my first post and thought about it you'd know immediately that your response had absolutely nothing to offer. Sorry if I'm coming off as a dick it was not the intention by any means it just really rolls me when people speak down to others seeking knowledge. I'm an airline pilot, not a gun aficionado so how about you cut me some slack and one day when you decide to ask something about a plane I don't knock you down as being the village idiot because you don't know everything?


Thanks!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=am-Qdx6vky0

I was in no way talking down to you. You seemed new to guns so I was trying to explain why not having a manual safety was safe in a carry gun. I was only trying to help but I really don't appreciate being told "I didn't bother to use my brain." I guess I'm just stupid because I'm not a pilot like you and even though I don't use my brain I know when not to bother someone again.

I wish you well in finding something to carry.

 

[Tomac]

There are decent choices available which, due to trigger design, don't need a manual safety. For example: the Kahrs (striker fired w/a long but smooth/light trigger), the SIG P250 (true DAO, also w/a long but smooth/light trigger) and the SIG P290RS (also true DAO but trigger isn't as good as on the Kahrs or P250).

When I CCW I usually carry appendix IWB. Due to my carry location an ND could easily be fatal so I want either a manual safety (used to carry a S&W M&P9c w/thumb safety for years) or a DAO-style trigger that, like a revolver, doesn't need a manual safety due to the trigger characteristics.

You have options, check 'em out and pick the one best suited for your particular needs.
HTH...
Tomac

 

[bigfatdave]

P99 compact seems like an obvious answer. The AS variant has a (safe and well designed) decocker.
The XD series has a grip safety, and the XD9subcompact is a nice little carry gun.

There are endless 1911 variants with a thumb safety, of course. I carry an all-steel compact frame 4" barrel 1911 most of the time, with good gear the weight is a non-issue.

A manual safety on a carry gun isn't a bad thing, but a quality holster is more than enough for a properly functioning modern pistol.

If you do decide that your carry pistol must have a thumb safety -and that's up to you - pick a direction and stick to it. I like frame-mounted "down-for-fire" levers, myself, some people like slide-mounted "up-for-fire" for some reason.

 

[moxie]

There's nothing wrong with wanting an external safety.

Two small 9mm pistols with external safeties are the Ruger LC9 and the S&W Shield. Both are nice guns.

 

[mike28w]

I'm a huge fan of the HK P7 !! Not the perfect gun for everyone ,but for me, it's the safest , most ergonomic , accurate gun I've found. Not cheap, not light and not high cap.

Some love it (me) and others hate it...... It's the only gun that I two examples of !

 

[Zaydok Allen]

FNX and FNS pistols from FNH

Beretta PX4 is nice. The safety is also a decocker.

Does it need to be a manual switch, or is a blackstrap safety ok too? If the blackstrap safety is enough, then GLOCK and XDm pistols are options also

I agree with the others that an external safety isn't needed, but you should get what you want and are comfortable with. Nothing wrong with having one on a gun. Just need to practice is all.

 

[bannockburn]

How about something like a DAO revolver (S&W Model 642), or semi-auto (Kahr PM9 or SIG P250)? Guns like these eliminate the need for an external safety and are still very safe to carry and use, making them extremely well suited for CCW.

 

[CurlyQ]

The definition of a manual safety. A device that will one day prevent the gun from firing when you need it the most. Saw a video recently. A security tape from a convenience store robbery. When the clerk saw what was coming down, the clerk pulled out a gun of his own and pointed it at the bad guy. When the bad guy pointed his gun at the clerk, you can clearly see the clerk pulling the trigger on the gun, with no results. The police arrived and found the clerk's body, gun still in his hand, safety still on.

 

[moxie]

That's the reason for training.

With 1911s the normal carry mode is cocked and locked. Presentation includes wiping off the safety.

Training with the same manual of arms with other pistols equipped with external safeties is no different.

Are you saying 1911s are ineffective because they have an external safety? The fact that you saw one guy in a video flub his presentation doesn't negate the vast majority who train and apply their training properly.

 

[bomberbill357]

I like to carry in the appendix position and like the FlyingTexan was looking for a manual safety. I've practiced that draw a million times but in the heat of battle I might get my finger on the trigger a little to early and don't want to shoot my johnson. After all in a fight what can go wrong will go wrong. t I might also add I've had plenty of trigger time with SIGs and Glocks, 1911s and revolvers.
I settled on a S&W M&P Shield. It's flat, lightweight as a reasonably good out of the box trigger and a thumb safety. It's small And doesn't go to the safe position too easily but with prcatice I've mastered hitting it to the off position. Try one, I think it might be what you're looking for.

 

[Nomad]

External safeties IMHO are over rated. On the other hand if they give someone the warm fuzzies I say go for it. I live in AZ where it is also very hot and have carried a number of models and makes over the last 15 years. I gravitate toward the Kahr line but they have internal safties only. Think about all the double action revolvers carried by thousands of folks over the years...no external safeties there.

 

[MedWheeler]

Have you handled the SR9c (concealed-carry version?) Also, are you okay with the transition from double-action to single-action trigger mechanism? This is when the external hammer (of a pistol that can be fired from hammer-at-rest) is cocked by the action of the slide, both during chambering of the first round (after which you would de-cock it), and during fire, when the slide re-cocks the hammer. The first shot, when fired from hammer-at-rest, would have a long, deliberate trigger pull; all subsequent shots would have a lighter pull (unless the hammer is lowered manually after any shot.)
If you are, the SiG 2022, the Bersa Thunder 380, and the Bersa Thunder Nine are all decent, reliable choices that don't break the bank. Each has a safety that doubles as a de-cocker; use it to lower the hammer, then leave it down to lock the trigger's action. Train to sweep it up when deploying the weapon.

I own, and carried for two years, the Bersa in .380, though I never carried it with the safety on. It is a great and easily-carried piece. It's also available in a "chopped" concealed-carry version, known as the "CC".

 

[Revolver Ocelot]

ehhmmagazine

sorry, had to clear my throat

I personally find a safety to be a hindrance when adrenaline is pumping, but everyone has their preference I suppose, nothing wrong with that so long as you train to it.

I never understood why walther didn't offer the safety they have on their p22 on their similar pistols in larger calibers. If you want a 9mm that is easy for ccw and has a safety you'll find a lot of good options out their.

Some good ones are:

sig p938
kimber solo
s&w m&p shield
berretta nano

I could go on, I think the shield would probably provide you the most comfort in hand with what I feel to be better options in changeable back straps. But like with any gun, some feel better in hand to some people and not so much with others. I'd recommend going to a gun store with a large selection and try to handle a variety of guns and see what feels good in hand.

And welcome to the high road.

 

[bigfatdave]

ehehhhhhthere

I never understood why walther didn't offer the safety they have on their p22 on their similar pistols in larger calibers

The P22 looks like a p99, but is entirely different mechanically. That P22 safety lever does nothing but rotate a drum to block the hammer from hitting the firing pin.

 

[Shawn Dodson]

A Glock with an aftermarket manual safety: http://cominolli.com/product_info.php?products_id=29

 

[MedWheeler]

I'd be surprised if the OP comes back to update us, or let us know he's checking this thread.

 

[TestPilot]

That's the reason for training.

With 1911s the normal carry mode is cocked and locked. Presentation includes wiping off the safety.

Training with the same manual of arms with other pistols equipped with external safeties is no different.

Are you saying 1911s are ineffective because they have an external safety? The fact that you saw one guy in a video flub his presentation doesn't negate the vast majority who train and apply their training properly.
__________________

It is a risk management issue.

Trainging only reduces the risk of manipulation failure. The only way to get rid of the risk is to not have the device.

No matter how well trained, a shooter always have a probablity that of making a mistake with a trigger, and for the same reason a shooter always have a probablity of making a mistake with a manual firnig inhibitor manipulation.

There is a risk either way.

 

[Revolver Ocelot]

The P22 looks like a p99, but is entirely different mechanically. That P22 safety lever does nothing but rotate a drum to block the hammer from hitting the firing pin.

I understand mechanically they are different, but not as different as you may think. My thing is, that safety mechanism is not terribly complicated at all and could easily be incorporated into a number of guns so long as they are hammer fired. So why wouldn't they atleast offer a model that had this safety? I mean there may be people out there that bought a p22 and were glad the safety was there, and then turned away from the 999 etc because it had no safety.

 

[bigfatdave]

they do
it is called the pk380