CC question

[Just One Shot]

I have been practicing my CC draw and for me it seems to be easier to carry my semi auto with the safety off and an empty chamber.

When I draw with the chamber loaded and the (manual) safety on I find myself looking at the gun to turn off the safety but in the other mode I can draw and rack the slide without taking my eyes off the target. Plus I'm more accurate with my pistol in single action mode as compared to the double action mode.

I haven't got my CCP yet. I've scheduled the course for Jan. 24th (they're booked until then) and I want to have my draw down before I take the class.

Which way do you carry? Should I continue to practice the way that works best for me or should I keep working at carrying (I believe the term is condition 1) until I get it down?

I can see good and bad in both situations and am interested in the opinions of those who have CC for awhile.

 

[orchidhunter]

Just One Shot, You need a round in the chamber. What kind of pistol you got? You might want to think about a revolver. orchidhunter

 

[Just One Shot]

I have a Ruger P95 9mm for cold weather and a Bersa Thunder 380 for warm weather. I'm considering an Armscor 1911 45 as an addition.

I don't own any revolvers but I have considered a Ruger SP-101 327 magnum and I strongly considered a Ruger security six in 357 magnum that I found at the local gun show.

I've only owned one revolver in my life and that was a 22 snubnose. Needless to say, you couldn't hit the side of a barn with it.

I don't have anything against revolvers it's just that semis for what ever reason have been my choice in the past.

 

[tblt]

.

 

[orchidhunter]

Just One Shot, Give the revolvers a try. orchidhunter

 

[MedWheeler]

JOS, either of these handguns is safe (when used by a knowledgeable person) carried with a round in the chamber, and the safety off. I carry the Bersa Thunder as such. I'm former LE, and carried the Ruger P-85 I was issued back then in the same manner, both off and on duty.
This assumes that, with either gun, the hammer is at rest, having been carefully placed as such by use of the decocking lever.

 

[S&Wfan]

If attacked, someone my end up swinging a bat at you, or some other blunt object.

If your hand or arm gets broken . . . how in the heck will you rack the slide so you can defend yourself?

That's only one possible scenario that would leave you S.O.L.

 

[wyocarp]

If your hand or arm gets broken . . . how in the heck will you rack the slide so you can defend yourself?

Well, what if it is your right hand/arm that gets broken and you can't get the gun safety turned off with your left hand? What if? What if? What if?

I think I'm possibly the only guy on here that thinks it is not a problem to have a full magazine and none in the pipe.

Aren't we talking about an event that most of us will never encounter, much less have to worry about? And even if we do have such an event, if we are paying just a little attention, most likely we will have plenty of time to rack the slide considering that it really doesn't take any longer to draw than to draw while racking the slide. Anddddd, it is even less likely that someone is going to disable one of our arms than the event happening in the first place.

Personally, unless there is a specific danger, I feel fine just having the gun with me. It's better than at home. And please don't anyone say, "You might as well leave it at home if you aren't going to carry it in condition 1."

 

[P90shooter]

Plus I'm more accurate with my pistol in single action mode as compared to the double action mode.

Sounds like a few range trips are in order. You have plenty of time until the 24th. Plus FWIW in TX if you have a DA/SA you have to start in Double on every drill

 

[FoMoGo]

I carry a 1911, condition 1... cocked and locked.
My opinion... carry with a round in the chamber and safety on.
Practice drawing and wiping the safety.
It may not seem like it takes much longer, but in an emergency situation you need that pistol in hand before you draw... you are already behind the 8 ball and playing catch up.
If you have to use the other hand to keep someone off of you when you draw... if you are injured... if you are trying to hold onto something to keep from fighting from your back with someone on top of you... just having to wipe the safety will be a godsend.
And yes... we are using a few "if"s.
Carrying a gun is all about ifs... if I need it I want it. If I need it, I need it to work... if I fire I hope it hits what I shoot at.
Carry it condition one and practice... 1st shot out of the mag at the range on any reload... fire it DA.


Jim

 

[Doug b]

Just one Shot you might want to check with your instructor.Our course was done with revolvers only .38sp all double action only.

 

[mljdeckard]

OP and Wyocarp,

Remember a couple of things. We carry because bad things happen. We carry because we don't know where and when bad things will happen. To carry with an empty chamber is to ASSUME that you know what bad thing is going to happen, because you seem to know that you will have the use of both of your hands. If you don't plan on doing EVERYTHING you can to be prepared for a bad thing, it doesn't do you much good to carry at all. If you go by the idea that "The odds are small that you wouldn't be able to rack the slide quickly when you need to", then you would also have to listen to the reasoning that "The odds of you needing a gun in the first place is so small, you may as well not carry." Your first knowledge of having a problem could OCCUR WHEN you are wounded, grabbed from behind with one arm, DRIVING, carrying a child, or most likely, HOLDING YOUR ATTACKER AT ARMS' LENGTH WHILE YOU DRAW. IF YOU EVER ACTUALLY HAVE TO USE YOUR PISTOL, IT WILL BE BECAUSE EVERYTHING ELSE HAS ALREADY GONE WRONG.

Having a round chambered is only one part of being prepared. You need to learn to draw, fire, clear a stoppage, reload, etc with BOTH hands alone.This is not extra stuff it's nice to learn, it's within the bare minimum. You must train as if every single part of your plan has gone wrong. Have you even considered how to reload and rack the slide one handed?

 

[Just One Shot]

tblt,
Is that your idea of high road? While I may be new to Concealed Carry I am not new to handguns and firearms in general. I'm now 50 and I first went hunting at the age of 15, qualified expert with the M-16 in the Army at 18 and have owned a number of rifles and semi auto pistols over the years.

To everyone else,
Thanks for the constructive comments. I will continue my practice and work towards becoming more proficient with my draw while carrying in condition 1.

 

[mgkdrgn]

And unloaded CC carry gun isn't a gun, it's a badly shaped rock you can't throw well. Most SD shootings take place at 10 feet or less, and are over when the first shot is fired.

If you don't have one "in the pipe", that first shot won't be yours.

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

I am puzzled as to how adding an extra step (i.e., the slide racking) makes "CC draw" easier.

 

[WC145]

Your Ruger (and probably your Bersa) is safe to carry with one in the chamber and the safety off. Then it's just like carrying a revolver, draw and shoot. When you're done shooting, decock and leave the safety off. I used to carry a HK USPc V1 on duty and that's how I did it. I don't need a safety, in fact my current duty weapon and my other carry guns are all DAO, no safetys on them at all. If I don't want it to fire I don't pull the trigger.

 

[MICHAEL T]

BERSA is ok to carry safety off. Use it as a decocker then return to fire . Its fine to carry that way . On my Bersa the safety is considered by me to only be a decocker. My brain and finger outside of trigger guard till ready to fire Is the safety.
Visit other bersa owners
http://bersatalk.com
best price on factory mags found here,

 

[wyocarp]

I am puzzled as to how adding an extra step (i.e., the slide racking) makes "CC draw" easier.

The whole point is that for many people, it isn't an extra step. Kind of like pulling the hammer back while pulling a single action revolver from the holster. It's all in what you practice.

And unloaded CC carry gun isn't a gun, it's a badly shaped rock you can't throw well. Most SD shootings take place at 10 feet or less, and are over when the first shot is fired.

Give me a break, I don't know of a single shooting that has made the news in recent years that wouldn't have afforded .002 seconds to rack a slide. providing one isn't blind, deaf, and dumb. Part of carrying should be a heightened awarness of your surroundings.

 

[brett30030]

Quote:
I am puzzled as to how adding an extra step (i.e., the slide racking) makes "CC draw" easier.
The whole point is that for many people, it isn't an extra step. Kind of like pulling the hammer back while pulling a single action revolver from the holster. It's all in what you practice.

Quote:
And unloaded CC carry gun isn't a gun, it's a badly shaped rock you can't throw well. Most SD shootings take place at 10 feet or less, and are over when the first shot is fired.
Give me a break, I don't know of a single shooting that has made the news in recent years that wouldn't have afforded .002 seconds to rack a slide. providing one isn't blind, deaf, and dumb. Part of carrying should be a heightened awarness of your surroundings.

Wyocarp,

None of your argument make sense to me. An extra step in one that is not necessary to complete a task. Just because that is the way that somebody performs an action does not mean that it is not additional steps than are necessary (i.e. racking the slide).

I was watching a program today that showed police and civilians in situations where criminal attacked them and most would not time to load the weapon prior to defending themselves or in some of the cases being killed.

Sorry

 

[zammyman]

I carry a 1911 too, condition one. Carry any semi auto without a round in the chamber reduces your response time and effectivness, especially at close range. If someone is at point blank range and pulls a knife using both hands will give them the chance to see you defenseless. If they're a bit longer range and you have time to rack the slide it still may not happen with effect; you don't want to worry about pulling the gun and racking the slide all the way back. Even with practice trying to pull that gun and do a proper slide rack may not work well if it's cold and your hands are numb, you're wearing gloves, or you panic.

 

[WC145]

Quote:
I am puzzled as to how adding an extra step (i.e., the slide racking) makes "CC draw" easier.

The whole point is that for many people, it isn't an extra step. Kind of like pulling the hammer back while pulling a single action revolver from the holster. It's all in what you practice.


Quote:
And unloaded CC carry gun isn't a gun, it's a badly shaped rock you can't throw well. Most SD shootings take place at 10 feet or less, and are over when the first shot is fired.

Give me a break, I don't know of a single shooting that has made the news in recent years that wouldn't have afforded .002 seconds to rack a slide. providing one isn't blind, deaf, and dumb. Part of carrying should be a heightened awarness of your surroundings.

I'm sick of this ridiculous argument. Common sense dictates if you have to load your weapon as you draw you'll be slower than if you don't and a gun fight is not the place to start out with a self imposed time deficit. And, if you think you're ready for everything and always prepared and will always have that .002 seconds and both hands and won't somehow f**k up under stress, and can control everything else that could possibly go wrong, then you are fooling yourself.

For you proponents of carrying with an empty chamber - If carrying with an empty chamber were such a viable option then why don't LEO's carry that way? I'm a cop, I wasn't trained that way. We carry chambered, topped off, safety off (except SA autos for those that are nit pickey) so that if we should have to draw our weapons they are ready to fire and everyone here should do the same thing because when I need my gun I need it NOW and the same goes for all of you. If you're going to carry a gun, carry it loaded and ready to fire, otherwise don't bother.

 

[Rodentman]

You would be shocked, I think, at how fast an attack can happen!

For example, I was coasting up to a red light on my motorcycle in 1991. A car came out of a parking lot and hit me. I had no time to evade, no time to do anything.

I saw the car and in a blink of an eye was on the ground. If that were a BG I would have been drawing from the ground flat on my back.

It aint slow motion. I think we have all become desensitized to "real world" violence by maybe too much tv. Jack Bauer may have time to nail every BG (he never misses) but it aint like that in fact.

I carry a revolver with a round in every chamber. I see no reason to carry an auto in any less ready state than that.

And be very aware of your surroundings, people, alleys, shadows, etc.

I lived thru my accident, barely, minus 1 leg, and was saved by my helmet. Passive protection, true, but I always wore it because you never know.

 

[WC145]

^Sorry about your leg but an excellent post that really illustrates the point I was trying to make. Stay safe.

 

[GRIZ22]

I have been practicing my CC draw and for me it seems to be easier to carry my semi auto with the safety off and an empty chamber.

When I draw with the chamber loaded and the (manual) safety on I find myself looking at the gun to turn off the safety but in the other mode I can draw and rack the slide without taking my eyes off the target.

Your problem is you haven't practiced taking off the safety enough. You need to repaet an action 3-500 repetions to learn it and 3-5000 before it becomes muscle memory. The Ruger is safe to carry with the safety off and others have said the Bersa is also.

Plus I'm more accurate with my pistol in single action mode as compared to the double action mode.


You need to learn to transition from DA to SA. Practice firing the DA round and just let the trigger reset not return all the way forward. Then fire your SA shot. They will be on top of one another when you're doing this correctly. once again 3-500 to learn and the same 2-5K for muscle memory.

I have P90 & S&W DA/SA autos I normally carry with the safety on. I slide my thumb along the left rear of the slide which will push the ruger or S&W safety up or a 1911 safety down. I have done this for so long it is instinctive to me. The finish on the left rear of my Glock slide is worn as a result of this. It takes no more time and is done as the gun comes up from the holster.

To master a technique you have to commit yourself to practice.

Carrying with an empty chamber is insanity for the reasons others have mentioned.

 

[wyocarp]

Just One Shot, it's just you and me and you should pick better company, because I'm an idiot who shouldn't carry a gun.