CCI now marketing a self defense load

[Pat Riot]

Having shot a lot of CCI ammo in all their different loadings I do not recall ever having a failure to fire with their ammo. I cannot say the same about many other brands.
I do not see myself using a .22 for SD or HD but if it’s all I had or all I could handle I would most definitely be using CCI ammo. Aguila would be a close second place, but I cannot think of a third place manufacturer of .22 LR ammo that I would trust in domestic easy to acquire brands.

 

[Riomouse911]

If you want a 22 round that expands from short barreled guns try some Remington Yellow Jacket ammo. I used to test it from a Jennings 22 in clay and water bottles and always got picture perfect mushrooms. But like already stated I would rather have the solid bullets for the penetration.

If you want a lighter recoil gun try a 32 S&W long. The bullets weigh two and a half times as much as a standard 22 round so they will penetrate and the 100gr bullets have very light recoil. Way less than the lightest 38 WC loads. And there are pages of 32 long revolvers listed on gunbroker that are selling in the $500 range. And thats for S&W snubs. And the unexpanded 32 round is as big as an expanded 22 round.

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Lucky Gunner has 32 Long WC ammo for $36 a box. Yes it cost more than plinking ammo but its a better round with centerfire priming. Buy a couple hundred rounds and save the brass. Buy a simple Lee reloading set up and shoot it for less than 20 cents a round. The brass will last about forever.

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Got a couple of boxes of Yellow Jacket ammo left amongst the stash.

I bought it, and the Copperhead solids, for my Iver Johnson TP-22. Unfortunately hyper velocity stuff wasn’t making the most reliable gun/ammo combo, so I just use 40 gr HV loads in that gun.

When Remington folded I just left these on the shelf.



Stay safe.

 

[.308 Norma]

If you want a 22 round that expands from short barreled guns try some Remington Yellow Jacket ammo.

I can agree with that. In the springtime, my wife uses Remington Yellow Jacket ammo in her Ruger Bearcat for shooting close range (20 yards or less) ground squirrels, and it really makes a mess out of them.
However, it seems like it's getting hard to find around here. Is Remington still making 22 Yellow Jacket ammo? It would be a shame if they quit.

 

[sparkyv]

CCI makes the SGB (small game bullet). They shoot great in my target rifles. I haven't seen any for sale since before the scamdemic. Flat nosed, but not a full WC, pretty close to this:

Exactly. I’ve always thought they should make a mini mag wadcutter with just a flat soup can shaped hard cast bullet for revolvers. That would produce a better perminant cavity than a round nose without really giving up any penetration. I’ve seen several tests where truncated flat point 9mm penetrates farther than RN fmj.

 

[commygun]

CCI may fear too much of a price bump; folks expect .22s to be cheap.

Around here, the price of a box of Stingers is quickly approaching the price of a box of Balkan 9mm FMJ.

Regardless, I like the idea of optimizing the self-defense potential of each caliber even if the caliber isn’t optimal for self-defense. That makes all of your guns potentially more effective in that role, even if you just know that you’d never have to use that 10/22 or rimfire single-action to defend yourself.

 

[dobedo]

It is all BS any load can be used for self-defense. Marketing/branding is an art to make you think that you really need something when you do not.

 

[JERRY]

I've no interest in a .22lr round that costs as much as a .22mag round but still made to .22lr priming standards.

 

[JTHunter]

As I shoot some rather large turtles with an iron-sighted Model 60 and "bulk" ammo, I get about 60% hits at 40-50 yds.
Same ammo in my scoped bolt-action would boost my score to 90%+.

 

[ThomasT]

I can agree with that. In the springtime, my wife uses Remington Yellow Jacket ammo in her Ruger Bearcat for shooting close range (20 yards or less) ground squirrels, and it really makes a mess out of them.
However, it seems like it's getting hard to find around here. Is Remington still making 22 Yellow Jacket ammo? It would be a shame if they quit.

Last time I looked at the website it was still listed but I haven't seen any in forever. IIRC I have one full box left. But like the above poster stated you can use about any 22lr round you want. As long as its a High Velocity round its going to do about all any 22 round is going to do. After all its still just a 22 and fancy bullets won't turn it into a death ray.

 

[Riomouse911]

Having shot a lot of CCI ammo in all their different loadings I do not recall ever having a failure to fire with their ammo. I cannot say the same about many other brands.
I do not see myself using a .22 for SD or HD but if it’s all I had or all I could handle I would most definitely be using CCI ammo. Aguila would be a close second place, but I cannot think of a third place manufacturer of .22 LR ammo that I would trust in domestic easy to acquire brands.

I used to day that, too. But woo boy, did I get a crappy brick of CCI Blazer 40 gr .22 LR at the last range go round on Friday!!

(In fact, it is the brick in the picture I posted above!)

If I didn’t get 1-2 FTF with every 10-round cylinder (S&W Model 617) or magazine (Ruger Mk IV) I was ecstatic. (I stopped saving them after the first three magazines.)



Several would fire with 2 hits, one took 3. At least four random duds I rotated and solidly hit them x3, still with no firing. (I was holding this by the bullet, it is juuust visible under my thumb.) Nothing ruins a good grip, stance and concentration like repeatedly hearing, “Click!” in the middle of a string.



I’m writing CCI tomorrow with the bum lot number: F25DA06.

I will go out on a limb and never say never with rimfire gun/ammo reliability.

I’d still like to try some of this SD ammo out, though.

Stay safe.

 

[Pat Riot]

@Riomouse911 Thank you. That’s a darn shame. Please let us know what they say.

 

[.308 Norma]

But like the above poster stated you can use about any 22lr round you want. As long as its a High Velocity round its going to do about all any 22 round is going to do. After all its still just a 22 and fancy bullets won't turn it into a death ray.

All I was talking about was how well Remington Yellow Jacket ammo works on close-range ground squirrels when fired from my wife's little Ruger Bearcat revolver, ThomasT:. My wife has better ammo (larger caliber and more powerful) as well as bigger and better guns for self-defense purposes.

 

[westernrover]

I was seriously considering having an inexpensive 22 in the safe as a contingency -- not my primary carry gun, but "just in case" I needed another one for myself or another family member. The main factor that caused me to dismiss this is when I researched the penetration of 22 LR from pistol barrels.

Why would I need a hollow point .22LR for self defense, when even a standard LRN bullet barely meets the (almost universally) accepted FBI penetration criteria when fired from a short barreled handgun? It's simple physics - more expansion equals less penetration... It's like a hollow point .380 ACP - the round has anemic penetration even with FMJ bullets, but you still insist to carry expanding ammo that penetrates even less, why?

This pretty much sums it up. The 22 from a pistol-length barrel is good for plinking and small game, and that's about it. I don't want to get shot with one, but I can't see having one in any of my plans for defensive use. While there may be a place for 30 SC (or another light 32 in one of the revolver cases), the market is mostly 9x19 and that's what makes the most sense.

 

[JohnB-40]

Shame about the Blazer 40gr. It used to be one of the best budget rounds,especially when it was in the 50 round boxes.

 

[Ethan Verity]

I was scrolling the other day and came across 22 Plinkster and he’s trying out the CCI uppercut. A new round released that’s intended to expand out of a handgun and go 9.5 inches deep in ballistic gel. I don’t trust 22 lr for self defense as my main carry, but if you do this seems like an interesting load worth checking out. It expands and looks very similar to a gold dot/hst. I haven’t seen any on the shelves yet. Just thought I would share.View attachment 1185611

If I were going to carry 22lr for self defense, I would use the hottest solid round nose I could find... not HP. 9.5" penetration isn't good, and I value adequate penetration over expansion for self defense. It's the same reason I carry mild expanding Hornady XTP bullets in 380, because with the big expanding HP designs they don't penetrate enough. Once a round has sufficient energy to penetrate, that's when you can get into good expanding bullets, but 22lr ain't there.

 

[ThomasT]

All I was talking about was how well Remington Yellow Jacket ammo works on close-range ground squirrels when fired from my wife's little Ruger Bearcat revolver, ThomasT:. My wife has better ammo (larger caliber and more powerful) as well as bigger and better guns for self-defense purposes.

Yes I know what you were talking about. I was replying to the thread in general not to get too hung up on over priced specialty rounds advertised to work magic from a 22lr gun. The poster above who said he would want the fastest solid he could find is on the right track for a SD round. Sorry for the mix up.

I shot a deer many years ago with a Marlin 39 and a solid point bullet and I hit the deer at the back of the ribs on the right and the bullet went through the lungs and caught a little of one of the heart vessels and stopped on the left side of the brisket under the hide. It tracked straight through and didn't do any of the silly ricochet crap some people say 22s will do. It killed the deer in less than 30 yards.

 

[.308 Norma]

not to get too hung up on over priced specialty rounds advertised to work magic from a 22lr gun.

Yeah, that's for sure.

I shot a deer many years ago with a Marlin 39 and a solid point bullet and I hit the deer at the back of the ribs on the right and the bullet went through the lungs and caught a little of one of the heart vessels and stopped on the left side of the brisket under the hide. It tracked straight through and didn't do any of the silly ricochet crap some people say 22s will do. It killed the deer in less than 30 yards.

I can relate to that as well. When I first started big game hunting (in the early '60s) my rifle was just like Dad's - a .308 Winchester. And both Dad and I used regular ol' 150gr CoreLokts for mule deer, and 180gr CoreLokts elk.
Those old bullets just worked, and I can't remember either of us ever losing a deer or elk that we'd shot. Nowadays though, if I was to pay much attention to some of the stuff I read on the internet, I'd think in terms of "sectional density," "ballistic coefficient," and Lord know what else before I chose what bullets to use in my big game rifle. Either that, or I'd think mule deer and elk have grown a lot tougher than they were 60 years ago.
BTW, I use Sierra 165gr HPBTs in my favorite big game rifle (my 308 Norma Mag) nowadays. I think they're called "cup and core" bullets, or something like that. All I really know for sure about them though is that they've worked well for me so far.

 

[ThomasT]

Yeah, that's for sure.

I can relate to that as well. When I first started big game hunting (in the early '60s) my rifle was just like Dad's - a .308 Winchester. And both Dad and I used regular ol' 150gr CoreLokts for mule deer, and 180gr CoreLokts elk.
Those old bullets just worked, and I can't remember either of us ever losing a deer or elk that we'd shot. Nowadays though, if I was to pay much attention to some of the stuff I read on the internet, I'd think in terms of "sectional density," "ballistic coefficient," and Lord know what else before I chose what bullets to use in my big game rifle. Either that, or I'd think mule deer and elk have grown a lot tougher than they were 60 years ago.
BTW, I use Sierra 165gr HPBTs in my favorite big game rifle (my 308 Norma Mag) nowadays. I think they're called "cup and core" bullets, or something like that. All I really know for sure about them though is that they've worked well for me so far.

Yes hunters and handgun owners have been sold a lot of malarky when it comes to bullets and loads and what is needed to kill animals or another person. Simple cup and core bullets kill game just fine. And simple handgun bullets are damn deadly even if they don't turn themselves inside out on impact. I blame a lot of the BS on the gun mags from a decade ago or more. They sold the idea that bullets had to expand to work when in reality simple bullets kill about as well as the nastiest HP bullets ever invented.

Your simple cup and core bullets will do for 90% of the game you will ever hunt. For the other 10% just load up Nosler Partition bullets and you will be fine.

 

[westernrover]

Self defense isn't about killing, but stopping deadly force. Similarly, performance in a hunting bullet isn't about killing the game, but about dropping game before it is lost.

22LR will kill no doubt, but its lack of penetration from pistol-length barrels results in ineffectiveness in defensive use of force where it will take too long to stop an attack. Cup and core bullets kill game just fine, but they can fail to drop game quickly and in a short distance when they splash on hard targets and fail to penetrate vitals. They can also contaminate meat with lead fragments and fail to exit leaving less blood trail. The game will be killed for sure, but that is not my performance criteria.

 

[ThomasT]

Self defense isn't about killing, but stopping deadly force. Similarly, performance in a hunting bullet isn't about killing the game, but about dropping game before it is lost.

22LR will kill no doubt, but its lack of penetration from pistol-length barrels results in ineffectiveness in defensive use of force where it will take too long to stop an attack. Cup and core bullets kill game just fine, but they can fail to drop game quickly and in a short distance when they splash on hard targets and fail to penetrate vitals. They can also contaminate meat with lead fragments and fail to exit leaving less blood trail. The game will be killed for sure, but that is not my performance criteria.

I have heard the old saw that using a nasty hollow point is the thing to do so you don't have to shoot someone as many times to get them to stop. In this case "Stopping" is just a euphemism for "killing". Thats why bullets are tested in blocks of gel to see which bullets do the most damage. Damage that will translate into killing power of the round. At least be honest about this. And this has all been promoted by gun mags for decades and now YT posters who shoot blocks of jello to show what kind of damage in flesh you can expect. And which hollow points tear up the most meat. So spin it however you want. It means nothing to me.

As for Cup & Core bullets on deer I have never had one splatter and contaminate the meat with lead fragments. The very, very few I have found have all just folded back and had a shank with a flattened nose. And that was on an Elk shot at 60-70 yards from an 8mm Mauser with a Sierra 175gr Pro Hunter bullet. And I still have the bullet. My other elk was shot with a 54 caliber muzzle loader shooting a Lee Improved Mini I cast myself. Needless to say no elk is big enough to stop one of those.

Of the 30 whitetails I have killed with centerfire rifles 29 were shot at 80 yards or less. Some a whole lot less. All with cup and core bullets from Remington and Speer. I recovered one Speer 7mm 145gr that went length ways through the deer and was found under the hide on the rump. None of bullets blew up and no others were found. All were pass throughs and no deer went more than 40-50 yards. The one long shot I made was at 250 yards with a 243. A raking shot that landed at the back of the ribs and exited at the brisket. The deer just fell over dead. So thats been my experience.

My most used gun was a 7x57 followed by a 7-08, 243, 44 mag and 30-30 and a 50 cal BP rifle. They all seemed to kill about equally well.

 

[tws3b2]

I've been shooting 22lr for a lot of years now and have never really had that many fail to fire. Lately I think I've had more Blazer 9mm fail to fire than anything else including 22lr. Actually I don't even remember when the last time I've had one fail.
As for carrying a 22lr for SD. To each his own.

 

[Riomouse911]

@Riomouse911 Thank you. That’s a darn shame. Please let us know what they say.

Shame about the Blazer 40gr. It used to be one of the best budget rounds,especially when it was in the 50 round boxes.

I called and spoke to the guy there. I sent an e mail with pics of the case with the three firing pin dimples that didn’t fire. The first response was they couldn’t tell by the picture anything about the firing pin dimple, quoted SAAMI specs for impact depth and said it must be the guns. (The 3 distinct dimples that I posted above.)

Their second response was it must’ve been the guns as they had 100,000 in that lot with no reported issues. I said thanks. I wrote that I wasn’t asking them for anything, I’m just being the first in letting them know that this batch hasn’t worked with the usual CCI efficiency in two completely different, boringly reliable guns.

Meh. I just got a lemon batch. I still like CCI rimfire ammo and I’ll still buy their stuff.

Stay safe.

 

[ThomasT]

I called and spoke to the guy there. I sent an e mail with pics of the case with the three firing pin dimples that didn’t fire. The first response was they couldn’t tell by the picture anything about the firing pin dimple, quoted SAAMI specs for impact depth and said it must be the guns. (The 3 distinct dimples that I posted above.)

I had some Winchester 22 ammo like that. A HP round and the bulk box was a silver color with target rings on it but I don't remember the exact name of the ammo. I was getting dud after dud even when rotating the rounds. I finally started saving the duds and when I got home I pried out the bullets and dumped the powder. Mixed in the powder was the dried priming compound. It had just flaked off the rim and mixed in with the powder. I shot what would fire then pulled the lead from the duds and added to my lead pot. The powder I saved and made a big pile of it and set it off. It was just a bad batch of ammo. This was before the internet (at least for me) so I never contacted anyone about it.

I just remembered the name. I think it was called "Super X" ammo. Maybe.