CCW gun ideas (please help)

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kungfuhippie

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With the recent headlines (VT and BWO here in CA) I've decided to stop putting off getting my CCW permit. I live in San Bernardino County which is almost a shall issue county from what I've heard. My problem is that I only have one pistol...one very old pistol...that I would not want to carry daily. So over the next three months (end of spring and summer) I want to get two or three pistols for this purpose. I am most comfortable (fit) with 1911 style large frame semi-autos, but that will not always be possible. I'm leaning towards a sub compact 9mm or 40 s&w, a snub revolver of some sort, and a 1911.

I have rented/shot several different styles of pistol at the local range...that helped be shy away from a bersa or ppk-too small for my hands.

I was hoping for some good solid advice any could offer about ccw...holsters, how to carry, where to conceal it, expirence carrying any of the above style firearms, and even recomendations for what to get. I'll be working overtime this summer to fund this (still in college-can't carry there:banghead: ) so lets try to keep it around $500+/- each (used handguns in PRK are always priced high so that "used $100 s&w" will be $100 less than a new one here)
 
You mention that the PPK is too small for your hands. It is also slightly too small for mine. On the other hand, for a very similar gun (caliber, size, weight, etc...), my SigP232 with Hogue wrap-around grips fits perfectly. It is a little too small with just the standard grips. But with the Hogues it is perfect. may want to look into it.
 
A S&W snub in .32 or .38. Usable power in a pocket-sized package. Who could reasonably ask for more? Mine's a M#37
 
The pistol is a very personal choice. However, for concealed carry, I advise sticking with a single platform and practicing as much as possible. If you ever really need the firearm for self defense, the adrenaline will dump, your motor skills will be for **** and you'll likely revert to training. 1911, revolver, DA/SA, external safety ... even if you have multiple ccw pistols in different sizes, choose one system and stick with it. You DO NOT want to remember what pistol your carrying at the time and how to operate said pistol when you need it.

I hope you never need it. :)

As far as concealment, I suggest two holsters: a good IWB holster with a good gun belt, start at 3:30 and tweak until comfy ... and a smartcarry or bellyband type holster for the times IWB is just not possible. Some may raise an eyebrow at the smartcarry suggestion, but it's really the best option when a belt isn't worn, such as sweat pants or gym shorts.

Whatever you decide, daily ccw is a commitment. Expect to make wardrobe concessions and learn to live with slight discomfort at times. Don't expect to have time to rack a slide, carry with a round chambered and become borderline obsessive regarding safety.
 
If I could have only one gun, it would be the Glock 19 which has a capacity of 15 + 1 9mm.

Ideally, I would leave my shirt out (untucked) and carry it at 4 o'clock with a belt holster. They are much more comfortable than IWB.

The Glock has a light trigger, so it takes discipline to always avoid touching the trigger until ready to fire.

This would be a terrific choice. The model 19 is very often mentioned as the one gun to have. It should be utterly reliable. You will not have to worry about a failure.

Bill
 
4" 1911 I really like my Charles Daly, and S&W 442/642 should cover it for guns. desantis or mikes pocket holster for 38 and IWB or OWB for 1911.if ya want ammo recomendations 135 Speer GD in 38 and 230 GD for 45
 
The biggest question in gun selection, In my opinion, is frequency of carry. Is your aim to carry 7 days a week or are you actually only going to carry one Saturday a month? If you are in the former catagory, then weight and size should be your biggest concern.

I carry 7 days a week in a pocket holster with a 12oz. 340pd. Anything more and it's a one day a week affair.
 
The easiest way to carry is to get a pocket gun. I have a Seecamp that is extremely easy to conceal and is, imo, the finest quality pocket gun money can buy. They come in two flavors, 32 and 380 auto. The 32 runs about 425 new while the 380 can be up around 800. You can also look into Kel-tecs and a variety of others. Many will say a pocket or mouse gun does not have the power you need, and they may be right, but a pocket gun is a hell of a lot better than nothing as far as I am concerned. My Seecamp is on me 16 hours a day and I hardly notice it. When I have the luxury of concealment garments outside of work I also carry an XD40 subcompact, but regardless the Seecamp is always in my pocket and I like it that way. Hope this helps.
 
Well I'll add some info. I've shot glocks several times, rentals and friends, didn't like them. They're nice, but not my thing. I'm looking to get 2-3 concealable handguns because I have a 65 year old 9mm and notyhing else and it'll be easier to have them when I apply than to add them to the list when I get the license. I will be carrying 24/7 almost. Being in college there will be times when I can't legally carry, but the time and money I'll have to invest is too much for it to be a novelty thing. I work in a industrial hell, often until late, by my self. And I often am out in the middle of nowhere with work (or the middle of neighborhoods I don't belong) with $50,000 plus of survey equipment. All good reasons to push me into getting the ccw (or atleast trying) I'm looking at a revolver and a semi-auto because a snub DA revolver would be a good pocket pistol. I however like the added capacity/quicker reloading of a SA (at least for me it's quicker)
Thanks for all the info, this is really helping.
 
I was going to say Glock, even though I no longer own one. They are reliable, reasonably light/compact for a double-stack and the price is right.

However, if you don't like them, that is okay.

My CCW journey is probably not over yet, but it started with a Glock 23, then a bunch of S&W j-frames. M-37 (alloy), M-49 (steel), 340 and 360 (Scandium) S&Ws. You can find all kinds of j-frames for under $500. They are great pocket or SmartCarry candidates (BTW, I second the SmartCarry idea.

If you like semis, I have yet to find anything that touches the Kahr PM9. I have had mine coming up on two years now and carry it more than everything else put together. It fits in a front pocket every bit as well as a j-frame, holds 2 more rounds and I shoot it about six(ty) times as well. If you have larger hands (and pockets) the CW9 is just a bit larger--about 1/2" of extra barrel and 1 round more capacity, and about $400 brandy new. Either will work with the SmartCarry as well.

I've had good luck with alloy-framed, 3" 1911s, although some curse their existence. (But then, I've heard people bad-mouth Kahrs too. :rolleyes: ) For me, they work better IWB, but I've carried them in the pocket and in the SmartCarry (although they are close to the limit IMHO). Finding one for $500 will be work, but can be done. I had a chance at an ANIB Kimber Ultra Carry for $500 a while back. I ended up paying a bit more for a stainless one. Liked it so much I bought another. :)

For IWB holsters, Milt Sparks is viewed very highly, but they are pricey and have a long waiting period. Nate at UBG (www.UBGholsters.com) makes a very good product with next to no wait time and very reasonable prices. For pocket, I like the DeSantis Nemesis, about $15. One size (the one for mini-Glocks) fits my Kahr PM9, my j-frame, my Kahr P45 and my 3" 1911. Talk about versatility!

Good luck.
 
I carry a S&W 642/442 and Glock depending on clothing and weather. I've also carried my Glock 19.
 
I'm limited to 10 rd capacity, so capacity isn't a huge issue. For versastility of carry, who a snub nose revolver or a compact semiauto have the advantage? I'm comfortable shooting both, but lean toward a semiauto only due to using autolaoders more.
 
Considering the additional info you posted ....

If you can go untucked, look at the Sig P239/.40 DAK in a Milt Spaks VMII and spare mag (don't forget the quality gun belt, makes the difference). Point and click, no external safties to swipe. Alloy frame, ss slide and good trigger. For those that don't take to Glocks, Sigs seem to point well. The P239 has a recessed decocker and sloped trigger guard so it's easy in/out of the holster. The short, flat grip makes it easily concealable. External hammer gives added comfort (over striker fired) when holstering as you can place your thumb on the hammer and know immediately if the trigger has been snagged. 40S&W is an excellent self defense round with good overall ballistics, look at the Speer Gold Dots.

If tucked most of the time, you'll need to go pocket pistol. Hopefully you can wear cargo pants or Docker style pants with pockets that provide 6"+ tops. Suggest a S&W J frame or Ruger SP101 in a good leather pocket holster. Crimson Trace Grips are also a nice addition to these pistols.

Whatever you choose, purchase ammo in quantity to keep the cost down and practice like you wanna play in the game.
 
Total Package that is best

Quote:
I'm leaning towards a sub compact 9mm or 40 s&w, a snub revolver of some sort, and a 1911.
---------------------
...

At this point, your best choices are either 9mm or 1911 45cal.

Reasons: if money is a factor in the long run, to become accurate with either gun, then the 9mm ammo and gun is the route to go, as they both cost less in training/learning the gun, a lot less in 9mm ammo vs 45cal ammo.

Recoil: no matter how you slice it, the 40cal is KING in recoil (has the MOST) and depending on you, the shooter's 2-hand-grip skills, and time-spent at becoming a true marksman, (practice, practice, with training from the start)
Your main concern will always be getting the second shot, 3rd, 4th, back on target asap, to finish the job (put the BG out of commission) and that favors the 45cal, least amount of "real recoil that forces the guns front barrel UP"

BUT: with most 45's, they're magazine capacity is around 7-8 rounds max, with one chambered, making 9 shots before reload, as compared to a 9mm magazine that holds (depending on the State Law where you live) minimum of 10 rounds, 14 rounds, 17 rounds, plus one chambered, making for either:

11 shots before reload

15 " " "

18 " " "


Bottom line, more bang for the buck, practice wise, with the 9mm, AND, there are many lower gr/weight bullets to choose from without really IMHO, sacrificing knock-down power, which means less recoil.

Personally, my Sig P229R Carry 9mm has virtually no recoil using Cor Bon High Velocity +P 9mm Luger 90gr JHP (hollow points) with bullet Velocity of 1500fps @ an Energy of 450lbs.

All in all, I think the 9mm gives you much more room for error, with more bullets in the magazine.

But if you are, or can become an Expert Marksman with a 45cal, there would be your biggest knockdown bullet with the most effect, without running out of ammo after 9 shots.

To be clear IMHO, the 40cal will take the longest to acquire the proper feel and expertise, for rapid fire, directly because of the Recoil it has/generates, per shot, and for you to get back on-target, for any rapid, continue shots.


Good luck,



LS
 
I lived in San Bernardino County (Victorville area) for many years (1983-2003). Is Gary Penrod still sheriff? He is indeed much more reasonable than most southern California sheriffs.

Are there any restrictions on the total number of handguns, and do they have to be registered on your permit?

I would suggest a compact autoloader for a main gun and a lightweight snubnose revolver or pocket-sized autoloader for a deeper concealment or backup gun. Have you tried the S&W M&P compact? I have one and it has been outstanding. For the little gun I have a Kahr PM9.
 
Another vote for the Smith & Wesson J-frame. I should be getting my M&P 340 this week and it'll be my every day carry. 5 rounds of 135 grain Speer Gold Dots in .38+P are better than the 15+1 rounds of 9mm in my Sig P226 left in the safe.
 
My problem is that I only have one pistol...one very old pistol...that I would not want to carry daily.
Click to expand...

"very old" means what to you?

Guns are too old when ammo can no longer be had, when they are too valuable as an antique, when the metallurgy is suspect, or when they're worn out and rickety.

A Makarov. They are accurate, easy to conceal, dependable as all get out, and solidly built.
Click to expand...

What he said.
 
If you can find one, take a look at the Smith & Wesson 3913. It's a very good compact 9mm built on a tried and true action. I would highly recommend one.
 
I'd look at the Springfield XD subcompact. I think it might be in the $500 price range. It has interchangeable backstraps so you can get it to fit your hand. I think S&W's M&P has this also.

For carry options you'll have to experiment. Kydex is good and generally cheaper than leather. IWB offers the best concealment. Comp tac makes a good Kydex holster.

Just my .02.
 
lee n. field
too old=65 years (not really since I've got a rifle that is 101 this year and is just fine), but that's just part of it. It's a Star Modelo B in 9mm luger, a Russian Capture. It will shoot FMJ fine all day as well as WWB JHP (but every other HP I try has had feeding issues. I've already had to replace parts on it (barrel bushing, barrel link, grips (could never get all the cosmoline out-just got some nice new walnut replacements) I stripped the russian black paint that was put over any pitting and reblued it (cold blue) It's a functional gun and I trust it for home defense and even take it open carry when I legally can (BLM land and such) I just see no reason to not get something with replacement parts readily avaliable and in a larger caliber (.40 s&w or .45 ACP). I don't want to have to trust my life on a gun that is older than my Dad.

In PRK you can only carry the guns you list on your permit (3 max) So I want to have a couple that I would carry. One will get carried more often but if it needs to get repaired I will have a backup. I'm leaning towards a 1911 style and maybe I'll get a full size 1911 and a compact 1911 (3"-4" barrel etc.) But I was looking for advice on what to look for in guns, holsters, and prefered methods of carry. No so much as which particular gun to get. I appreciate the get a "x" because or the don't get a "x" because. Anyway I'm going to dign up for a ccw class in June when school is out and go from there. I think I'll get the first one around end of June. And the second around July or August. (I hate the 1 handgun a month thing)
 
Based on what you've described (price range, climate, daily activities)....I'd suggest...


Kahr CW9 in a good IWB holster (Don Hume is very good quality for reasonable money and lead time).

Overall weight of the package and thickness of the piece are the key metrics.

The grip length on a CW9 (not the PM9) is longer than many pistols of larger size. This is because Kahr has a patented configuration that places the trigger mech. and the barrels locking lug thingy side by side. So for the same over all height.....you get more room on the grip. The trigger guard is not unnecessarily oversized either, which gives more room for your bottom three fingers.

I would think pocket carry conflicts with the hand size issue....at least if you want to get all three fingers wrapped around the grip.

In your climate you're not going to want to fool around with cover garments (vests, sweaters, jackets....) so you'll wind up carrying IWB, Thunderware or ankle. Thickness of the piece is huge for the first two and weight for the other (strap a two rolls of quarters to your ankle and walk around for a few days if you doubt this).

Though it may not seem like much, an 1/8" to 1/4" off the thickness of the piece is HUGE! and Kahr is as thin as they come.

Lots of arguments about "simplicity of operation", consistent trigger pull, length and weight of trigger pull. Karh give you DAO simplicity with a pretty darn good trigger and if carried in a proper holster (one that shrouds the trigger) is totally safe.

After the first month or two, the honeymoon is over and daily carry is a pain in the ____ (insert organ....kidney, knee, back, etc...). The more comfy the carry the more frequently you will carry. Example: I got a deep bruised feeling in my kidney area carrying a PT-111 IWB at 4:00 and had to go without for a month until I could get a OWB (pancake) holster. It just plain hurt to much.

Get a CW9 off Gunbroker for ~$450 and get your Don Hume holster for ~$50 from Gunner’s Alley. Then spring the extra $50 for a "real" belt, as it will make a lot of difference.

My two cents for what it's worth. Others have more experience than I, but I've tried to consider the specifics of your situation.
 
Pocket> S&W 642 - Simply the best pocket snub there is.
IWB/OWB Compact> Walther P99c, S&W M&P, XD Compact, etc.
1911> S&W
 
I decided to pick up a Ruger SP101 .357 magnum with 2 1/4" barrel. It is small enough to conceal under a t-shirt, fits my hands perfectly and has incredible knock down/penetration potential when using +P hollow points (the recoil can take so getting used to though).

I highly doubt I will ever require all 5 rounds, but carry a speed loader just in case. I don't see how people will need 26 rounds in their autos for personal defense, but it never hurts to have more firepower - I just chose not to go that route...

I am still getting used to carrying on a normal basis and right now am using an IWB holster, but am seriously considering getting a nice OWB pancake holster.
 
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