Chicago Tribune article on Blackwater North

[Neo-Luddite]

Do we need more cops with paramilitary training, especially here in Illinois?

Well, the way I see it--it will help them to better serve and protect us--do their job--that's what they do, right? Nothing prevents a private citizen from getting the same--or FAR better--training.

And yes, Lee, Carroll County has it's seedy side--usually found a little further West on Rt. 64.

 

[BAT1]

Training camp?

For what? If I did that, they would haul me off and call it a terrorist training camp, and label me a unlawful combatant. Yes, they did take guns in NO. They haven't given them back. Chertoff said he had a gut feeling. My grandma use to say, the chicken that cackles laid the egg. I'll never be a good little subject, unarmed men are subjects, armed men are citizens. They are still outnumbered, come take it. They have lost a lot of people in IRAQ. When are they going to learn door to door gun grabbing is a losing battle.

 

[Sonic]

What I don't understand is how Blackwater is able to have machine guns at any of their U.S. facilities. The 1986 closing of the NFA registry to private registrations of machine guns closed it not just to individual citizens, but to any and all private entities. So no company or corporation can possess any post-86 manufactured machine guns either, but I know for sure that most, if not all of the machine guns Blackwater has are definitely not pre-1986 NFA registered machine guns. So how do they legally have those machine guns? I just don't get it.

 

[lee n. field]

And yes, Lee, Carroll County has it's seedy side--usually found a little further West on Rt. 64.

The area I privately refer to as the "fever swamp". That close to the river, I think there's something in the air.

 

[Don Gwinn]

If I did that, they would haul me off and call it a terrorist training camp, and label me a unlawful combatant.

Are you feeling all right? "If you did" what? Opened a range and training school? That site's BEEN a nationally-known range and shooting school for years, you know. The Site.

Take a deep breath before you post, people.

 

[Bad Voodoo]

Uh, no - it's not. Jeremy Scahill is notoriously anti-Blackwater - you may as well quote an anti-gun politician for the truth about firearms. Give us a link to one of those videos, please.

Sorry Andy. I'm not a radical tinfoil hat-wearing video cataloguing conspiracy theorist. I CAN tell you that many of these contractors were deputized and directly affected the infringement of 2A rights in NO during the Katrina aftermath, along w/ real cops from every part of the country. If you think that Iraqistan is the only area of the world where Blackwater surrogates our military you're pretty naive (no offense). It's not a fairytale - it's fact. Follow the money my friend, follow the money. Talk to people who were there in other capacities. Some pretty sinister crap went down after Katrina, regardless the oath to serve and protect against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

-voodoo

 

[Hypnogator]

Do we need more cops with paramilitary training, especially here in Illinois?

Gee, I seem to remember dozens of threads that bash cops for not all being world-class expert shots. Now they get bashed for marksmanship/tactical training?

 

[Norm357]

Do we really need Blackwater North and West? Is the demand for paramilitary training that great that we need 800-acre Blackwater "battlefield campuses" popping up all over the country? Only after you consider the fact that Blackwater "contractors" led the seizure of weapons from private citizens in NO after Katrina, will you begin to realize the enormity of what that may mean for OUR country's soverignty.

Uh no. That would have been the CHP and other left coast agencies that were seizing guns left and right, not Blackwater. Most Blackwater personal were shocked at the behavioour of some of the cops in NOLA.
I have seen the videos, talked to people that were there, both Citizen and police officer. Blackwater personal were not the ones seizing weapons.

 

[Norm357]

Dated May 22, 2006 re: the $30M our government spent on Blackwater "relief efforts." http://www.thenation.com/doc/20060605/scahill

How much since?

Plenty of articles and videos abound of "private contractors" removing firearms from law-abiding citizens down there during that time.

It's real.

-voodoo

You do realize that Blackwater only has nine security officers on duty in NOLA now, right? All contracted to FEMA.

And the article that you posted is crap. I stopped reading after the article said that the founder of Blackwater has never given any money to the domecratic party.

 

[Caimlas]

Are you feeling all right? "If you did" what? Opened a range and training school? That site's BEEN a nationally-known range and shooting school for years, you know. The Site.

Has it been organized as a paramilitary/organized militia organization all that time, too? That's the critical point.

 

[Caimlas]

I should note, I s'pose, that I know a guy who was in NOLA w/ Blackwater for relief. He wasn't even issued a firearm, though he was allowed to carry a side arm of his own (and he did) - he was there to help clean up and provide aid.

As far as Blackwater in general, the jury is still out as far as I'm concerned. I know a lot of ex-military sign up with Blackwater, and I also have heard that a great number of them did so because they have a lot more liberty in terms of when they have to go to war and when not - for instance, when the CiC gets switched up for an even worse loser who wants to destroy the Army/Marines/fighting forces.

The fact that the Blackwater contractors don't swear an oath to the constitution is inconsequential - words are words, and actions are actions. I would be more concerned with the supposed willingness of soldiers to obey a direct order to disobey the Constitution - as reported years ago during Clinton's Presidency... (wish I could find a reference for that - I don't remember the specifics)

 

[Autolycus]

Originally posted by Hynogator:Gee, I seem to remember dozens of threads that bash cops for not all being world-class expert shots. Now they get bashed for marksmanship/tactical training?

Not by me. And I believe the article mentioned using SMGs and other automatic weapons to practice with. ITs funny as I, as a subject, am not allowed to own such things but they are as servants of the government.

Do we really need police in Illinois to start learning how to better use paramilitary style tactics to combat the citizenry? Look at the police forces we have. ISP is harassing people who voice opposition to gun bans and magazine bans. We have Chicago PD officers who do not wish to be scrutinized when they are accused of brutality and not doing their duty in an ethical or legal manner. We have these same officers beating people up in bars and on the streets. Do we now want them to learn more skills to use against us subjects all the while we are unable to properly arm ourselves to defend against tyranny?

 

[AndyC]

Sorry Andy. I'm not a radical tinfoil hat-wearing video cataloguing conspiracy theorist. I CAN tell you that many of these contractors were deputized and directly affected the infringement of 2A rights in NO during the Katrina aftermath, along w/ real cops from every part of the country. If you think that Iraqistan is the only area of the world where Blackwater surrogates our military you're pretty naive (no offense). It's not a fairytale - it's fact. Follow the money my friend, follow the money. Talk to people who were there in other capacities. Some pretty sinister crap went down after Katrina, regardless the oath to serve and protect against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

-voodoo

Ok, let's get away from "Iraqistan", military, sinister crap, etc - it's irrelevant. Show me cites where Blackwater "affected the infringement of 2A rights in NO".

 

[Big Calhoun]

QOTD

"Most people have farms and homes. That's it. Now we have Blackwater here and we don't know what they will attract."

Geez, I'm thinking they might attract some property taxes, maybe some permit and some kind of licensing fees. They might attract business from the surronding area to supply parts of their operation. They might attract visitors utilizing the Blackwater facility but also spending money through the local economy.

I don't really see any bad things there...

 

[buzz_knox]

Do we really need police in Illinois to start learning how to better use paramilitary style tactics to combat the citizenry?

At the same time, these classes can be an opportunity for the citizenry and cops to interact in a very beneficial way. It just depends on the make up of the class. I've been in classes where citizens made up the majority, and those where cops were a significant portion. The dynamics of the class (not the instruction, but the way the class interacted) were very different.

 

[JohnBT]

After reading this thread I've come to the conclusion that most people don't have a clue about Blackwater and the services it has been providing since 1997.

www.blackwaterusa.com/about

"Blackwater USA consists of nine separate business units: Blackwater Training Center (the largest private firearms and tactical training center in the U. S.), Blackwater Target Systems, Blackwater Security Consulting, Blackwater Canine, Maritime Security, manufacturing of custom Armored Vehicles, Parachute Jump Team, Aviation, and Raven Development Group. We also have relationships with our strategic partners, Aviation Worldwide Services and Greystone Ltd.


We are not simply a "private security company." We are a professional military, law enforcement, security, peacekeeping, and stability operations firm who provides turnkey solutions. We assist with the development of national and global security policies and military transformation plans. We can train, equip and deploy public safety and military professionals, build live-fire indoor/outdoor ranges, MOUT facilities and shoot houses, create ground and aviation operations and logistics support packages, develop and execute canine solutions for patrol and explosive detection, and can design and build facilities both domestically and in austere environments abroad."

_____________

From the training page. Note that they offer training to civilians.

"On over 6000 acres of private land, we have trained and hosted over 50,000 Law Enforcement, Military and civilian personnel.

This is the most comprehensive private tactical training facility in the United States. Our instructors are ranked the best in the world and our facilities are second to none. At Blackwater, you train, eat and sleep at one facility.

Make plans to bring your team, unit or just yourself.

For US Navy, US Marines, US Army and International Training please contact David Taft at [email protected]

For US Coast Guard, US Air Force, and Mobile/Hosted Training please contact Willie Washburn at [email protected]

For Core Courses and Law Enforcement Training please contact R Vorhees [email protected]


Contact: [email protected] "

 

[Gun Wielding Maniac]

All the Blackwater bashers don't seem to get that the majority of operators in that firm are former US special forces, rangers, SEAL's, etc. It is not as if they foreign mercenaries here to "rob you" of your freedoms. I've never seen any credible evidence that Blackwater had anything to do with gun confiscations in NOLA.

Also, Blackwater does not do direct combat operations in Iraq. They serve general as VIP protection crews, convoy escorts, and oil facility guards. Not Door-kickers. IE, no gun confiscations you raving nut-jobs.

Get over it. Blackwater helicopters are not coming for you.

BTW, I'm looking forward to taking one of their training courses. They're spoken of highly. I'd think the Illinois gun owning population would be glad to have them... since they do offer courses to civilians. But of course, in Illinois I guess that just makes them look that much more evil...

 

[obxned]

Here in NE North Carolina, Blackwater is a good neighbor. No problems, pay their taxes, and there sure ain't any crimes on their property!

 

[whited]

.

It is my opinion that Blackwater and their cohorts are being groomed by
the gummint to be their lap dog thugs who don't have to abide by any laws. Such a
force would be very useful in uncertain times.

I read recently that the military-to-mercenary ratio in Iraq and Afghanistan
is nearly 1 to 1. Does that mean anything to you?

 

[Outlaws]

"Most people have farms and homes. That's it. Now we have Blackwater here and we don't know what they will attract."

Geez, I'm thinking they might attract some property taxes, maybe some permit and some kind of licensing fees. They might attract business from the surronding area to supply parts of their operation. They might attract visitors utilizing the Blackwater facility but also spending money through the local economy.

I don't really see any bad things there...

Well, most people who live out in the country don't want what you just listed. Its hard to explain, its just a way of life.

 

[Gun Wielding Maniac]

[/I read recently that the military-to-mercenary ratio in Iraq and Afghanistan
is nearly 1 to 1. Does that mean anything to you?QUOTE]

It means you get your "credible news sources" from Hugo Chavez. Seriously... where did you get those absurd numbers?

 

[AndyC]

It is my opinion that Blackwater and their cohorts are being groomed by the gummint to be their lap dog thugs who don't have to abide by any laws. Such a force would be very useful in uncertain times.

I don't know where you get that opinion, although I guess everyone is entitled to theirs. However, knowing contractors as I do, I'm very pleased to report that they are hardly anyone's lapdog; as for thugs, that label would fit perfectly - if you're the opposition. You could scarcely hope to find a finer, more patriotic bunch of people.

I read recently that the military-to-mercenary ratio in Iraq and Afghanistan is nearly 1 to 1. Does that mean anything to you?

Yes, it means that your sources are uninformed.