Sergeant Sabre
Member
paul45 said:...Hey, dont forget those lovely 2-piece barrels and cheap foreign labor!!
Are you talking about Springfield's frames? The ones manufactured by Imbel?
Colt is back in the Handguns business
- Thread starter M92FS
- Start date
- Status
Are you talking about Springfield's frames? The ones manufactured by Imbel?
I buy Colts simply because they're the only ones still making 1911's in the style I like (spur hammer & grip safety and polished flats, and no ski-jump sights, light rails, or snake scales). Only Springfield still makes "classic" 1911's, and unfortunately their quality is all over the board at times. Unfortunately Colt's own quality is still a crapshoot. In this day and age there's no excuse for misaligned pin holes and exterior contours that don't match each side.
If Colt would just fix their own QC issues and put out more product they'd OWN the 1911 market again. Unfortunately I've been saying that for the past 15 years.
If Colt would just fix their own QC issues and put out more product they'd OWN the 1911 market again. Unfortunately I've been saying that for the past 15 years.
Very unclear snide comment on my part! I agree whole heartedly with your post about Colt and Marks comments on why a person desires a Colt. I, also, like the less cast and MIM parts, hand fitting.... and I added that I am no fan of 2 piece barrels or the foreign labor of some 1911s.Sergeant Sabre said:
Poor decisions are a Colt tradition. The tradition goes all the way back to when Samuel Colt himself passed on the chance to get the patent on the bored through cylinder.
This same tradition is part of what enabled Ruger to go from a small, one product company, to the powerhouse it is today. The public wanted good quality single-action revolvers and Colt wouldn't make them. After Ruger got a firm toehold and started making some real money, Colt tried to get back into the business. By then, they had lost what once was effectively a monopoly.
This same tradition is part of what enabled Ruger to go from a small, one product company, to the powerhouse it is today. The public wanted good quality single-action revolvers and Colt wouldn't make them. After Ruger got a firm toehold and started making some real money, Colt tried to get back into the business. By then, they had lost what once was effectively a monopoly.
Lone_Gunman
Member
JohnKSa,
The story doesn't end there, as you well know. In the 80's and early 90's, at the height of the Wonder Nine Craze that swept police departments and the civilian market, Colt found itself without a product to offer. It finally put together the All-American, one of the worst firearms of all time. It flopped completely, and Colt never attempted to re-enter the Wonder Nine market.
In the meanwhile, Colt also let 1911 production quality sag. When the Assault Weapon Ban came along, wonder nines became less popular, and people turned to the 1911 again. Colt let Kimber, Springfield, and even Smith and Wesson come in and steal the 1911 market from them. By the time Colt got their 1911 production back on track, it was too late for them to recapture much market share.
Then CCW laws became more common, and the demand for small concealable handguns came along. So Colt drops the Mustang line completely, while simultaneously developing the Pocket Nine. The problem with the Pocket Nine was it infringed on patents owned (I believe) by Kahr, and as part of the settlement for that fiasco, Colt had to stop producing it.
The shame of it all continues to this day. The Assault Weapons Ban has expired, but Colt decides not to market AR's with flash hiders, bayonet lugs, and collapsible stocks to civilians. Bushmaster and Armalite chose to sell people what they want, and are doing well.
Smith and Wesson has reintroduced old-timey styled revolvers, starting with the Heritage series a couple of years ago, and continuing on now with the recently released retro-styled 45 ACP revolver (model number is slipping my mind as I type). Colt has totally dropped its DA revolver line.
It is amazing that Colt manages to stay in business, and the only reason I can think of is that God must like Colts, because I don't think they would still be around if He wasn't on their side.
The story doesn't end there, as you well know. In the 80's and early 90's, at the height of the Wonder Nine Craze that swept police departments and the civilian market, Colt found itself without a product to offer. It finally put together the All-American, one of the worst firearms of all time. It flopped completely, and Colt never attempted to re-enter the Wonder Nine market.
In the meanwhile, Colt also let 1911 production quality sag. When the Assault Weapon Ban came along, wonder nines became less popular, and people turned to the 1911 again. Colt let Kimber, Springfield, and even Smith and Wesson come in and steal the 1911 market from them. By the time Colt got their 1911 production back on track, it was too late for them to recapture much market share.
Then CCW laws became more common, and the demand for small concealable handguns came along. So Colt drops the Mustang line completely, while simultaneously developing the Pocket Nine. The problem with the Pocket Nine was it infringed on patents owned (I believe) by Kahr, and as part of the settlement for that fiasco, Colt had to stop producing it.
The shame of it all continues to this day. The Assault Weapons Ban has expired, but Colt decides not to market AR's with flash hiders, bayonet lugs, and collapsible stocks to civilians. Bushmaster and Armalite chose to sell people what they want, and are doing well.
Smith and Wesson has reintroduced old-timey styled revolvers, starting with the Heritage series a couple of years ago, and continuing on now with the recently released retro-styled 45 ACP revolver (model number is slipping my mind as I type). Colt has totally dropped its DA revolver line.
It is amazing that Colt manages to stay in business, and the only reason I can think of is that God must like Colts, because I don't think they would still be around if He wasn't on their side.
Lone_Gunman,
It's uncanny how effectively they've made the wrong decision at virtually every turn. It goes beyond bad luck and persists throughout management changes. It's almost as if there is something in the basic company philosophy that predisposes them to tank, over and over again.
They truly have a genius for failure.
I say that ruefully, not gloating. It's really sad.
John
It's uncanny how effectively they've made the wrong decision at virtually every turn. It goes beyond bad luck and persists throughout management changes. It's almost as if there is something in the basic company philosophy that predisposes them to tank, over and over again.
They truly have a genius for failure.
I say that ruefully, not gloating. It's really sad.
John
Lone_Gunman said:
The All-American wasn't even a Colt design. They bought the rights from (I believe) Reed Knight. And don't forget that during the early 90's when the gun ban hysteria was causing all the manufacturers to sell every gun they could make (and make lots of $$$ in the process), Colt was the only major manufactuer continuing to struggle financially.
TimboKhan
Member
Screw Colt. They have possibly the most recognizable brand name in firearms, and they have pissed away most of thier credibility. Colts are fine firearms, don't get me wrong; However, as a company, they completely turned thier backs on not only a large cadre of hardcore shooters, but also a large group of recreational shooters who would have been proud to own a honest to go Colt. The sad thing is, Colt could start making massive amounts of money so very easily if only they would start turning out the pistols that people want. Anacondas, King Cobras etc... Look, maybe Ruger caved to pressure, but the thing is, Ruger never stopped making the guns that people wanted. I happen to be a Ruger fan, and I wasn't happy, but at least they tried to satisfy everybody (even if that was a mistake on some level) as opposed to just turning thier backs on the consumer. So, again, Screw Colt.
larry starling
Member
Couldn't agree with you more. I love my Colt's and I will continue to support them, But why want they listen to what people want. I know they could sell a ton of Delta elites if they would bring it back. And what about a series 70 commander?.....JohnKSa said:
Gunsnrovers
Member
I'll pass on Colt.
Way back in 1992 I could have bought a Springfield MilSpec for $409 or a Colt 1991A1 for $549. I would have gotten the Colt.
Now in 2006, I can buy a Springfield GI for $400 or a MilSpec for $549. A Colt NRM at my local shop now costs $799.
I'll buy the GI at $400 and take the $400 savings put it into having MY pistol built.
Hey wait, I just did that.
If Colt could come out with a decent priced base pistol at a decent price with decent availability, I'll be back in the market. Their NRM's are too much and still need work.
Those "cheap" 2 piece barrels do good work once you properly fit a bushing. Two piece barrels have been around for a while in other pistols.
Way back in 1992 I could have bought a Springfield MilSpec for $409 or a Colt 1991A1 for $549. I would have gotten the Colt.
Now in 2006, I can buy a Springfield GI for $400 or a MilSpec for $549. A Colt NRM at my local shop now costs $799.
I'll buy the GI at $400 and take the $400 savings put it into having MY pistol built.
Hey wait, I just did that.
If Colt could come out with a decent priced base pistol at a decent price with decent availability, I'll be back in the market. Their NRM's are too much and still need work.
Those "cheap" 2 piece barrels do good work once you properly fit a bushing. Two piece barrels have been around for a while in other pistols.
MarshallDodge
Member
My opinion...
The Colt name has been completely used and abused. They kept a lot of gunsmiths in business until Kimber came along and raised the bar.
The last new Colt I picked up, about a month ago, had the usual sloppy fit, MIM parts, and crunchy trigger. At least it didn't have the plastic trigger It was the stainless Commander model and was priced higher than the Kimber Pro's. The only thing I liked about it was the Novak sights.
It seems like once these companies get name recognition their quality suffers. Kimber's quality seems to be slipping and they have the "stupid" trigger on a lot of their models now. I have two pre-seriesII Kimbers and like Colt's 70 series, I think that's where the quality stopped.
If I were to purchase a new 1911 today it would probably be from somebody other than Colt.
The Colt name has been completely used and abused. They kept a lot of gunsmiths in business until Kimber came along and raised the bar.
The last new Colt I picked up, about a month ago, had the usual sloppy fit, MIM parts, and crunchy trigger. At least it didn't have the plastic trigger
It was the stainless Commander model and was priced higher than the Kimber Pro's. The only thing I liked about it was the Novak sights.It seems like once these companies get name recognition their quality suffers. Kimber's quality seems to be slipping and they have the "stupid" trigger on a lot of their models now. I have two pre-seriesII Kimbers and like Colt's 70 series, I think that's where the quality stopped.
If I were to purchase a new 1911 today it would probably be from somebody other than Colt.
OldShooter
Member
- Joined
- Feb 20, 2006
- Messages
- 7
WOW! Such Venom!
As a new member of this forum, I can't believe that I'm reading such negativity against Colt Mfg. and their fine weapons!
I can't help but wonder what on earth has inspired such hatred?
If you prefer Russian, buy Russian. If you prefer Chinese, buy Chinese.
Such disrespect is, in my opinion, remorseful!
As a new member of this forum, I can't believe that I'm reading such negativity against Colt Mfg. and their fine weapons!
I can't help but wonder what on earth has inspired such hatred?
If you prefer Russian, buy Russian. If you prefer Chinese, buy Chinese.
Such disrespect is, in my opinion, remorseful!
Wow they make a whole 3 Firearms now .. They really have falling i have some of the old wheelies and love um but jezz they make 2 guns almost everyone else does.. The ar-15 and 1911 .. i mean smith even makes um now ya cant get much more flooded than that.
The SAA is so overpriced that a lot of people wont buy um and buy the copies instead at one time Colt stood for the best you could buy not anymore and thats to bad
The SAA is so overpriced that a lot of people wont buy um and buy the copies instead at one time Colt stood for the best you could buy not anymore and thats to bad
454c
Member
Seems to me Colt bowed out of the DA revolver market at the wrong time.People that don't want a lock now have one choice,Ruger.
MarshallDodge said:The last new Colt I picked up, about a month ago, had the usual sloppy fit, MIM parts, and crunchy trigger. At least it didn't have the plastic trigger
You've GOT to be kidding about Colt using MIM in their new 1911's.... right? RIGHT?
Sergeant Sabre
Member
Colt uses some MIM, but not like Springfield and Kimber.
Here is the list of Colt parts:
MIM
sear
mag catch
disconector
plunger tube
CAST
safety lock
grip safety
FORGED
slide
receiver
barrel
slide stop
MACHINED from bar stock
hammer
all pins
bbl link
bbl bushing
trigger fingure piece
ejector
firing pin
firing pin stop
extractor
Here is the list of Colt parts:
MIM
sear
mag catch
disconector
plunger tube
CAST
safety lock
grip safety
FORGED
slide
receiver
barrel
slide stop
MACHINED from bar stock
hammer
all pins
bbl link
bbl bushing
trigger fingure piece
ejector
firing pin
firing pin stop
extractor
OldShooter said:
Colt has earned this. It's been out of touch, won't listen to customers and has adopted a high and mighty attitude. Well eventually the world's current political situation will cool down, it always does, and Colt will find it's military contracts drying up. Then all it will have to turn to is private gunowners, only they won't be there for Colt. Colt has never understood gunowners. I cherish my two Colts (3rd gen DS and Official Police) but I despise that company now.
I think you missed the point. It's not a case of hatred against the company or its products as it is the kind of management that took a firm that was one of the two top manufacturers of handguns in the United States, and reduced it to a small custom shop with only two lines of product (three if you count the AR-15 rifle).
Americans are buying foreign handguns for the same reason they buy foreign cars. They see the overseas guns as having better quality and reliability then what's offered by domestic makers. This isn't always true, but it was our own manufacturers that helped create the perception.
Sometimes the truth hurts...
MarshallDodge
Member
Very well said! Americans still make a great 1911. Check out Wilson, Les Baer, STI, and Nighthawk. The custom shop at Springfield is cranking out some nice stuff as well.Old Fuff said:I think you missed the point. It's not a case of hatred against the company or its products as it is the kind of management that took a firm that was one of the two top manufacturers of handguns in the United States, and reduced it to a small custom shop with only two lines of product (three if you count the AR-15 rifle).
Americans are buying foreign handguns for the same reason they buy foreign cars. They see the overseas guns as having better quality and reliability then what's offered by domestic makers. This isn't always true, but it was our own manufacturers that helped create the perception.
Sometimes the truth hurts...
Nighthawk's have zero cast or MIM parts and you pay for it. I was not inferring that MIM parts are bad, just making a comparison. MIM has gotten a bad rap because of poor quality control. I have 5 or 6 guns with MIM parts and have had no problems with them.
Parts that are forged or milled can have just as many problems as MIM. It's all about the process.
Perhaps, but in the 1911 platform some MIM parts simply don't work, the extractor being an example. Over the long run they won't hold they're tension.
Be that as it may, I don't intend to stake my neck on somebody else's questionable quality control.
They can, but usually don't, unless the parts aren't to print. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect that pistols costing $1,000.00 or more wont have components that meet print specifications, both for materials and dimensions.
gunfan
Member
Strange, my Dan Wesson is a better pistol for the money.
I have a Colt 1991-A1, and I consider its polymer parts as "passable". Colt used to put together some of the finest handguns that I have ever owned! (I wish that I had my stainless King Cobra back again).
Today, If I want a fine 1911-type pistol, with the features that I want, I'll pick up the telephone and call my friend, Bob Serva at Dan Wesson/CZ. If I want a super-custom pistol, I'll call Wilson Combat and place an order.
I vote with my pocketbook. That, no matter how you slice it, is the "bottom line". What a concept! Capitalism at it's finest!
Scott
I have a Colt 1991-A1, and I consider its polymer parts as "passable". Colt used to put together some of the finest handguns that I have ever owned! (I wish that I had my stainless King Cobra back again).
Today, If I want a fine 1911-type pistol, with the features that I want, I'll pick up the telephone and call my friend, Bob Serva at Dan Wesson/CZ. If I want a super-custom pistol, I'll call Wilson Combat and place an order.
I vote with my pocketbook. That, no matter how you slice it, is the "bottom line". What a concept! Capitalism at it's finest!
Scott
stevelyn
Member
I have one Colt.....a Mustang. I like this gun but the only reason I have it because I got it for a song.
As for my sentiments about the company, I'm in the "screw'em" crowd. They are little more than a govt arsenal.
As for my sentiments about the company, I'm in the "screw'em" crowd. They are little more than a govt arsenal.
TimboKhan
Member
Well, I think I went over why I personally despise them pretty well, but let me point out that for me, it has nothing at all to do with the product but instead has everything to do with management. I would flat out love to have a Python. I had a chance to buy one at a very reasonable price a couple of years ago, and I passed as I was poor at the time, but I am here to tell you that Python was possibly the single finest revolver I have ever held. Everything about it was good. I have never been that big a fan of the 1911 to begin with, and Colts offerings in that regard were no more or less interesting to me than any other manufacturers, and that statement holds true with the AR as well. That said, perhaps I would be more interested in those products if Colt showed any interest in me, the consumer. So, without getting longwinded, which I am wont to do, I say again, Screw Colt.
BloodyRAzorBlades
member
in my opinion any Colt made after the Series 70's sucks.
- Status