Colt Peacemaker Pattern SA Revolver Carry Advice

[bdickens]

So do what you want, it's a free country. But don't get upset at people who talk sense to you. You get to have your own opinions. You don't get to have your own facts. A lot of people don't seem to get that any more.

Worth repeating.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

When I had my SAA, it was unlawful to carry in our area.

I often wished that I could--that thing was meant to be carried.

Had I been allowed, I might well have carried it for defense. I could shoot it well.

I knew absolutely nothing about self defense then.

I knew a lot about shooting, but self defense is about a lot more more than shooting.

And the otter aspects of self defense influence how we go about shooting in self defense, and how we choose what to carry.

The defensive shooing courses I have taken required semi-autos of duty size or slightly smaller, in belt holsters; no revolvers were permitted, though one of the instructors was a highly ranked competition shooter with revolvers; and no mouse-guns.

We all realized why after engaging in some of the drills.

Here's one: the student is walking in a three sided berm. The need to engage a target somewhere within in the berm--perhaps up to 170 degrees around to the left and ten feet away--materializes suddenly, and the student must quickly draw from concealment while moving offline, shoot three to five rounds into an area the size of an upper chest within perhaps two seconds. look around, repeat the action with another target, look around while moving to safety , reload without looking at the gun looking at the target, re-holster quickly, and dial while still remaining observant.

I have carried several different firearms using several different holsters, tying to find the right combination for me.

My current choice is a Smith and Wesson Shield EZ 9 in a Crossbreed OWB holster. Had the EZ 9 not come on the market with some desirable features last December, I would still be carrying something else.

I would never dream of suggesting to the carrier of a P365, or Glock 19 that he should switch.

But I do strongly suggest that anyone intending to carry a handgun for defense try it out in realistic exercises before settling on one, rather than trying to best adapt to a gun for some reason. The same goes for holsters.

My EZ 9 is a tool, carried for self preservation. For the hobby, I would prefer my DTI Guardian (originally chosen for self defense), my 5" 686 +, or a single action--maybe even a Bisley, just for fun.

I have a Kimber K6s for backup, and for primary carry during one of those annoying episodes when a bone spur immobilizes my left arm.

---
No offense but if that's a realistic situation where you live, you might want to move. I still work for a living and where I work carrying a firearm is illegal. Rather than seek new employment - I have a cushy job that pays well, thanks - I just accept not carrying a gun. I'd have to leave the gun in the car all day in a publicly accessible parking lot, making it useless. That's why I carry a good knife sometimes and mostly just carry a ready can-do attitude. But neither one of those is what the OP was asking about so me and it seems most here are trying to stick to the topic of carrying a SAA or some other type of single-action revolver around town or thereabouts. Folks where I live - as opposed to where I work - carry guns a lot and a few cart around single-actions because they work. They're a tool. There's lots of cattle and farming in our area and lots of snakes, wild dogs, a rare and occasional rabid racoon or big cat. Seen foxes in our yard chasing stray cats, too. Having a big accurate easy to draw revolver is a good idea. Having said that, I mostly see Gould & Goodrich, Ross Leather, and Hunter holsters in this area. That's what I own, too. They're solid and work. Concealment isn't really necessary but having the hog-leg out of the way getting into and out of a truck, four-wheeler, and such is real important. A lot of women around here who carry prefer the small autos like Kel-Tecs and S&W in purses with outside pockets. Also off topic, though.

 

[Kleanbore]

No offense but if that's a realistic situation where you live, you might want to move.

What are you talking about?

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

What are you talking about?

Here's one: the student is walking in a three sided berm. The need to engage a target somewhere within in the berm--perhaps up to 170 degrees around to the left and ten feet away--materializes suddenly, and the student must quickly draw from concealment while moving offline, shoot three to five rounds into an area the size of an upper chest within perhaps two seconds. look around, repeat the action with another target, look around while moving to safety , reload without looking at the gun looking at the target, re-holster quickly, and dial while still remaining observant.
---
If that kind of unprovoked attack by multiple armed hostiles moving in an orderly coordinated ambush scenario is a real and constant threat where you live, you might want to seek a more peaceful and safe place to reside is all I'm saying. I was stationed at Howard for a year and it was safer in the bar zone (Hollywood) than what you're describing as "a realistic exercise."

 

[Kleanbore]

If that kind of unprovoked attack by multiple armed hostiles moving in an orderly coordinated ambush scenario...

That describes a very typical violent attack by two persons in any parking lot or service station lot ins any city, town, or village in the United States.

..a real and constant threat where you live...

It realistically describes and potential threat anywhere.

"Constant"? I don't know what that means.

"Likely"? The likelihood of occurrence to any one person in any one year is far less than remote.

But the potential consequences are extremely severe, and many of us choose to try to responsibly mitigate the risk

you might want to seek a more peaceful and safe place to reside is all I'm saying.

I live in an extremely peaceful and safe place.

I was stationed at Howard for a year and it was safer in the bar zone (Hollywood) than what you're describing as "a realistic exercise."

Do you have any basis at all for that assertion?

Again, I have described training to survive a very typical violent attack by two persons, in any outdoor environment..


.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

That describes a very typical violent attack by two persons in any parking lot or service station lot ins any city, town, or village in the United States.

It realistically describes and potential threat anywhere.

"Constant"? I don't know what that means.

"Likely"? The likelihood of occurrence to any one person in any one year is far less than remote.

But the potential consequences are extremely severe, and many of us choose to try to responsibly mitigate the risk

I live in an extremely peaceful and safe place.

Do you have any basis at all for that assertion?

Again, I have described training to survive a very typical violent attack by two persons, in any outdoor environment..


.

---
I never got jumped by two armed thugs in a coordinated ambush in Panama. Getting rolled coming out of a bar was always a possibility if you were alone and too drunk to stand up. Fighting back wasn't an option, either. Fighting with the LIPs was strictly off limits. It was a dangerous place back then so a smart feller kept his wits about him and avoided the places the crooks hung out. That was responsibly mitigating risk: stay away from dark alleys, the streets where dealers, prosti's and pimps hung out and avoid hostile crowds.

Mind if I ask why you're on a thread the OP specifically asked antagonists to the concept not to post to? Just curious. It just seems a bit preachy, like you think we all need to be told what to think.

 

[WrongHanded]

Learn to shoot from the draw. Learn to use the support hand thumb to cock. Learn to shoot it fast in this manner. Learn to do so whilst being reasonably accurate.

Try the Wizard Drill. The only stage that will cause problems is the two shots at 30' onto an 8" target. The rest of it should be easily achievable with a little work.

I like Simply Rugged Sourdough holsters for CC with a revolver. I also prefer a transfer bar and adjustable sights. At a practical price point that means a Ruger Blackhawk. I also like .41 or .44 mag HPs (at around 1100fps) as my cartridge, because if I only have 6 shots, I want them to work as well as possible. A Power Custom free spin pawl is preferable for ease of reloading, but not a requirement.

I carry a Glock these days.

 

[Kleanbore]

I never got jumped by two armed thugs in a coordinated ambush in Panama

Good.

People in real life are attacked by armed criminals, and many of those criminals find it safer to act in concert with an accomplice.

If you choose to not be able to try to mitigate that risk, that is your choice.

It just seems a bit preachy, like you think we all need to be told what to think.

No.

One who takes the initiative to learn the subject sufficiently well can think for himself.

There are books and videos that can serve asa start, but until one has undertaken some realistic training, one cannot really appreciate the issues at hand.

A violent attack is not a good time to try to learn new skills.

I described one typical live-fire drill. Your reaction was that you somehow believed it unrealistic. That you have never been attacked is not a reasonable basis for that assessment.

Other ways help develop some skills include training in a 3D laser training facility. Rob Pincus tried one out--they showed a scenario in which two men robbed a quick-shop. It was so realistic that it made him nervous.

At the top of the training hierarchy is force-on-force training using simunitions. I have not done that, but some of our members have, and so has a neighbor of mine who works at Asymmetric Solutions.

That puts you in with people who shoot back, people who sneak up, and innocent people, in high stress situations.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

I described one typical live-fire drill. Your reaction was that you somehow believed it unrealistic. That you have never been attacked is not a reasonable basis for that assessment.

---
Never said I've never been attacked. I have but that's off topic so I won't discuss it. The topic is the best and most practical method of carrying a single-action revolver. I do that quite a bit when out in the woods and swamps and I said I use a belt holster. It works for everyday carry when I'm out in the brush all day. It gets hot down here and wet so finding a good rig that fits you is important. I've tried shoulder rigs and they're fine for short term or if you don't have to move around a lot but mine chaffed. It was great for riding in the truck and when it gets rainy but that's about it. Where I live people mostly open carry on private land, hunt camps, and sometimes around town. Where I work, concealed is the only option and a cop WILL show up - weapon drawn - if your carry piece gets spotted. I don't carry a gun concealed in the city so I won't talk about concealed carry in an urban environment. Not talking about a topic you don't know anything about or think isn't worth considering is typically a good idea.

 

[Kleanbore]

Never said I've never been attacked.

I misquoted you. You said "I never got jumped by two armed thugs in a coordinated ambush in Panama."

The topic is the best and most practical method of carrying a single-action revolver.

The topic was a request for tips and advice on carrying a Colt-pattern single action revolver for self defense ("or you'll die in your gunfight") rather than a X"XX tacticool, plasticool autoloader".

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

I misquoted you. You said "I never got jumped by two armed thugs in a coordinated ambush in Panama."

The topic was a request for tips and advice on carrying a Colt-pattern single action revolver for self defense ("or you'll die in your gunfight") rather than a X"XX tacticool, plasticool autoloader".

---
Actually, no. The OP did not specify concealed carry for urban self-defense. To quote the OP: "Seeing as I've seen multiple threads concerning carry of a Peacemaker pattern revolver of some sort, whether a Colt or clone, or a Ruger; over these past several months... I had an idea. People seem intent on carrying these beauties, so; instead of bashing them and screeching 'NO !!!', why not put advice and tips on carry, maintenance, etc, etc al; here instead ?Seems like a far more useful thing to do than screeching "NO !!! You gotta carry XXX tacticool, plasticool autoloader or you'll immediately die in your gunfight at a minute past high noon !!!".

Where did the OP say, "concealed," or "for self-defense"?

 

[Monac]

---
Actually, no. The OP did not specify concealed carry for urban self-defense. To quote the OP: "Seeing as I've seen multiple threads concerning carry of a Peacemaker pattern revolver of some sort, whether a Colt or clone, or a Ruger; over these past several months... I had an idea. People seem intent on carrying these beauties, so; instead of bashing them and screeching 'NO !!!', why not put advice and tips on carry, maintenance, etc, etc al; here instead ?Seems like a far more useful thing to do than screeching "NO !!! You gotta carry XXX tacticool, plasticool autoloader or you'll immediately die in your gunfight at a minute past high noon !!!".

Where did the OP say, "concealed," or "for self-defense"?

I guess when someone says "carry" here, we jump the conclusion of "carry for self defense against criminals", not "carry for protection against wild animals". For the latter, I am sure many kinds of single action revolvers are a good choice, because they come in a wide variety of powerful calibers, the grip shape allows for good recoil management, and fast reloads are generally not required.

But on the other hand, advice or tips on how to carry or do maintenance for that situation would not seem to be required either, except perhaps for ammo selection, and that would seem to depend on the type of animal you have in mind. That would make standardized advice difficult. (Maybe not though. If you are concerned about really big animals, like bears, maybe ammo choice narrows greatly.)

I have essentially no experience with either type of carry, but it would seem to me that carrying for protection against armed enemies requires more planning, and ready advice would be more useful. But as I say, I am ignorant.

I also should have read the OP more closely, as GeoDudeFlorida makes a fair point.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

I guess when someone says "carry" here, we jump the conclusion of "carry for self defense against criminals", not "carry for protection against wild animals". For the latter, I am sure many kinds of single action revolvers are a good choice, because they come in a wide variety of powerful calibers, the grip shape allows for good recoil management, and fast reloads are generally not required.

But on the other hand, advice or tips on how to carry or do maintenance for that situation would not seem to be required either, except perhaps for ammo selection, and that would seem to depend on the type of animal you have in mind. That would make standardized advice difficult.

I have essentially no experience with either type of carry, but it would seem to me that carrying for protection against armed enemies requires more planning, and ready advice would be more useful. But as I say, I am ignorant.

I also should have read the OP more closely, as GeoDudeFlorida makes a fair point.

---
Thanks. And, LOL, just wait until you hear a rattle near where you just stepped in the tall weeds. Having a little .22 Ruger (or Heritage) revolver at your elbow loaded with subsonics will suddenly seem like an absolutely brilliant idea! (HINT: Vipers strike heat - bullets are hot - if you learn the trick to it, you can fire a round and the snake will find it with their head)

 

[Kleanbore]

Actually, no. The OP did not specify concealed carry for urban self-defense.

I did not say "urban" self defense.

Nor did I say "concealed".

But he specifically mentioned a gunfight.

That's either self defense or something unlawful.

Lawful self defense need not be urban.

Good advice on the handling of a Colt-pattern single action revolver was provided: DO NOT LOWER THE HAMMER ON A LOADED ROUND.

In another thread, the OP said he does not own a handgun, that he would be looking for a DA revolver, and that he would consider a Vaquero, which would eliminate the concern about lowering the hammer.

 

[Monac]

---
Thanks. And, LOL, just wait until you hear a rattle near where you just stepped in the tall weeds. Having a little .22 Ruger (or Heritage) revolver at your elbow loaded with subsonics will suddenly seem like an absolutely brilliant idea! (HINT: Vipers strike heat - bullets are hot - if you learn the trick to it, you can fire a round and the snake will find it with their head)

Dang. There is obviously a lot more to this animal-defense-carry subject than I thought!

 

[Grizzly2]

I understand the intent of this thread and it is a good one. Many carry little 5 shot snubs which are pretty slow to reload also but do so anyway. For that reason, a SA is not all that handicapped or so we hope. Either way, i decided long ago not to. I limit myself to double action only for safety sake under the hightened pressure of a life threatening incident and also the limits placed upon our manual dexterity while under the effects of tunnel vision. This was made apparant to me while hunting with a sa Ruger Super Blackhawk Hunter.

I have no where near the experience and dedication that Craig C has even though I am also a Craig C with probably a different last name. But I have helped run many a Cowboy Shoot and almost always placed in the top ten of our regional events. I've always used a Ruger Blackhawk though. But while hunting, I was trying to line up a shot at 115 yards. Every time I worked through the glitch in the stock trigger the deer would move. I did this through a few deer. At one point I remember looking to the side to check my range against a tree i knew was at 100 yards. That is when I noticed my peripheal vision was gone. When I finally made the shot all the those deer ran together off the hillside and right in front of me which was my original plan knowing this was their escape route and that other hunters were higher up on the hill they were on. Thinking at first I missed, I cocked the gun but then had second thoughts in case I had hit one that hadn't gone down yet. So after they all ran by me I decided to lower the hammer which I'd done who knows how many times while handling a sa. But this time, with much of my manual dexterity compromised by the effects of the intense concentration on the shot and the resulting tunnel vision, the hammer slipped and a round went into the dirt in the field ahead of me. For that reason, I decided to go with dao for a carry gun.

The deer finally did go down about 80 yards from where it was hit and was struggling to go up the bank the others had all run up. Another amazing part of the story is where they all crossed the creek was upwind of me and I got a sniff of the open chest cavity from the shot. I remember thinking, that smells alot like the last deer I cleaned and got down and checked for blood which led to the downed deer.

Who knows if in a defensive shooting whether you may cock the gun for another shot and then not have to fire. Then, even thou you believe yourself capable, will that hammer slip from your fingers? If you haven't experienced the effects of tunnel vision yet, you may not have any idea. I know you all stress never lowering a hammer on a live round, but will you remember that after shots have been fired and you are shaking and rattled?

What percentage of sa shooters that you know have ingrained that safety routine sufficiently to practice it under that kind of stress? Not many that I know.

 

[Mr. Egan]

My two cents......
First, practice, practice, practice with what you decide to carry. Know your weapon and your skills.
Know the area you'll carry in.
Most gun fights are over in a few seconds with one to three shots fired.
I started with a 38 revolver. Then 357 revolver and later issued a 9mm simi auto. The last was a Glock model 22 40 cal.
After leaving L.E. I have a Glock 27 40 cal.
I am comfortable carrying my Uberti. El Patron sao in most areas. The Glock in others.
I trust the knockdown of the 45 colt more.
Again, KNOW your weapon and your skills.
Also........ Watch your surroundings don't put yourself in situations that require fighting your way out.
In my years as a Deputy Sheriff I've seen eight friends, coworkers, die in the line of duty. Not one would the type of his carry weapon have made a difference.

 

[45 Dragoon]

My two cents......
First, practice, practice, practice with what you decide to carry. Know your weapon and your skills.
Know the area you'll carry in.
Most gun fights are over in a few seconds with one to three shots fired.
I started with a 38 revolver. Then 357 revolver and later issued a 9mm simi auto. The last was a Glock model 22 40 cal.
After leaving L.E. I have a Glock 27 40 cal.
I am comfortable carrying my Uberti. El Patron sao in most areas. The Glock in others.
I trust the knockdown of the 45 colt more.
Again, KNOW your weapon and your skills.
Also........ Watch your surroundings don't put yourself in situations that require fighting your way out.
In my years as a Deputy Sheriff I've seen eight friends, coworkers, die in the line of duty. Not one would the type of his carry weapon have made a difference.

My thoughts as well!! Always be aware of your surroundings and if it's not "2nd nature" your done!!

Mike

 

[Antihero]

I started a post similar to this, it's going about the same sadly.

All the downsides mentioned for single actions can be applied to a pump action shotgun. Both are slower to reload, both hold about the same amount of ammo and both need to be cocked before firing. No one has ever said that a pump action shotgun is a sucky defense weapon.

Here's the thing about Kleenbore: he thinks that every target needs 3-5 shots into it and that you are gonna be attacked by the most disciplined bad guys ever. Basically every defence situation means you are being attacked by the US Army. No one has enough training ever either. All of this seems like good advice to him and reasonable......but most don't agree. Basically just scroll past any post he makes on the subject of defence, training, or revolvers in general. I don't dislike him at all but it's very wearying to read these sorts of posts on everything. You are not gonna change his mind, move on. It's what I do now.

We will see how long this stays up........

 

[Kleanbore]

First, practice, practice, practice with what you decide to carry. .

That's great advice, but first one must learn what to practice. After I availed my self of seom realistic defensive training, I found that what I had been practicing would likely have been of insufficient help.

Most gun fights are over in a few seconds with one to three shots fired.

"Most"? The usual quote is "the average". Neither has been substantiated.

Most if not all recognized triainers say to shoot until the threat is neutralized.

Most dashcam videos show more than one to three shots fired.

I trust the knockdown of the 45 colt more.

According to Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness, by Special Agent UREY W. PATRICK FIREARMS TRAINING UNIT FBI ACADEMY QUANTICO, VIRGINIA July 14, 1989, there is no such thing as knock down power in handguns.

 

[Sarge7402]

First most single actions are not small weapons. Sure there are some .32's in a Single Six size, but the SAA is a big pistol.

Second, we're not talking 18 ounce guns here, we're talking 2 plus pounds. Add that to your trouser belt and it'lll drop to the ground faster than you can say Hoot Gibson.

Third, we're definitely talking about serious calibers.38 special being about the smallest then the .357, 38/40, 41 Colt (Cimeron makes a revolver in this caliber on the P Jr frame I think),, .41 Magnum, 10 MM, 44/40, 44 S&W, .44 Colt (an 1860 Conversion I think), .44 Magnum, 45 S&W and the .45 Colt. None are shrinking violets and will definitely get the job done when needed. Even the cowboy loads are nothing to sneeze at. Also the P JR frame is about 2/3 to 3/4 the size and weight of a P.

Fourth as far as reholstering, If you've just pulled the trigger and neutralized the target, you've already made the pistol safe. If you don't need to shoot, you should have time to decompress and let the hammer down gently. Between cartridge heads for the time being until you can be in a white zone and go thru the one skip four cock and drop hammer on an empty cylinder.

Your wardrobe is going to dictate your method of carrying. Yes you can flip the loading gate out and mexican carry it inside your belt without a holster. You will definitely know it's there at all times. It's also just about as concealed as you can get. Ankle holsters are out and so are shoulder holsters without a serious coat. Best rig would be on a pistol belt (Don Hume, safariland or old elpaso saldery) and a simple Tom Three Persons style belt holster. You're still going to need something to keep it concealed, but it'll be closer to your gun hand when you need it.

As far as speed is concerned, you need to build up muscle memory so that drawing and cocking and aiming become second nature. Five hundred repetitions should do it. Also make sure the revolver is loaded with cases with spent primers and bullets. The force needed to turn the cylinder is a whole lot more than with an empty chamber.

 

[Millamber457]

Let's all step back here a minute. In pa it used to be , and maybe still is you have a right to self defense , but you obligated to try reasonable retreat first ! If you take that under consideration , with practice and familiarity an SAA is more than adequate. There for to my thinking those guys carrying hi cap semi's with multiple reloads are actually looking for trouble and under mob type situations , get the hell out ! Most of us are not cops (they spray and pray :look at the shots fired in recent shootings ) I'm not saying bad things about what trips your trigger for carry , but don't mess with someone that really knows the weapon. And lets really look at reasonability

 

[Kleanbore]

Here's the thing about Kleenbore: he thinks that every target needs 3-5 shots into it

No.

But all good training instructors will teach one to do that.

you are gonna be attacked by the most disciplined bad guys ever.

I've never implied that.

All of this seems like good advice to him and reasonable......but most don't agree.

All recognized trainers teach that. A number of them are members here

Basically just scroll past any post he makes on the subject of defence, training, or revolvers in general.

Watch it. Do not attempt to persuade other members to not heed reasoned advice on subjects of life and death.

it's very wearying to read these sorts of posts on everything.

Fine.

If you prefer, look into what Massad Ayoob, Michael Bane, Frank Ettin, Tom Givens, Gila Hayes, Rob Pincus, and Mike Seeklander have to say about these subjects.

There are other THR members to whom you may refer, but I so not know what they have done in the way of training people.

I don't think you'll find much in the way of substantive differences--after all, they are my sources--but you will likely find them more credible.

 

[Antihero]

Watch it. Do not attempt to persuade other members to not heed reasoned advice on subjects of life and death.

This is why I scoll past. You personally are not the foremost expert on defence.

You don't seem to take any situation besides the one you've created. Pretty much any training you receive tries to train you to deal with the situation as it's happening, not what you think it's gonna be . You seem to reject anything besides your opinion on what you think will happen in every post I see of yours. Obviously I haven't seen them all but......it seems to be the same message over and over.

Theres plenty of other info on the internet including the sources that you've posted. It is not all distilled down into your posts.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

I've often said most disasters occur because people PLAN to have disasters. If you wind up in a gunfight with only a knife, it's because you PLANNED it that way -- you chose to carry the knife and not the gun. If you go up against an active shooter who's using an AR 15 and all you have is an SAA, it's because you PLANNED it that way.

And saying "If it's all you have . . . " is nonsense.. Plan to have something better, and you'll do better.

Now as for carrying an SAA for self defense, my question is WHY? When you say "self defense" you're saying "when my life is at stake." Figure out what you need when your life is at stake and carry that.