Compliance Is Certainly A Gamble

[Good Ol' Boy]

I wouldn't shoot to maim, I wouldn't shoot to stop (whatever that means, how many videos have we seen of people dropping then getting back up), I would shoot to kill. That's a 100% stop for sure. I know that opinion isn't really shared anymore; heck even the death penalty is being criticized, but that's just my opinion. I hope I don't come off as being disrespectful, I just yearn for heated debate sometimes

What you should be concerned with is a DA reading this thread should you ever find yourself in a SD situation.

You shoot to stop the threat. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[SlimReaper67]

What you should be concerned with is a DA reading this thread should you ever find yourself in a SD situation.

You shoot to stop the threat. Nothing more, nothing less.

Very fair point. That's why I wouldn't ever connect an online persona with my actual identity. I'm saying that shooting to kill is stopping the threat, 100%.

 

[Good Ol' Boy]

I acknowledge your opinion.

But if you please, I would appreciate you not posting anymore opinions like that as it is most certainly going to get this thread locked and I'd like to keep it open for discussion related to the OP.

Thanks.

 

[Kleanbore]

Why would you not? A dead attacker means the risk has dropped to 0. Zilch, nada, threat eliminated..... wouldn't shoot to maim, I wouldn't shoot to stop (whatever that means, how many videos have we seen of people dropping then getting back up), I would shoot to kill.

Such permanent posts in a public venue could put one away for a long time. Also, they violate our forum rules.

wouldn't ever connect an online persona with my actual identity

Don't be naive. Law enforcement will do that.

 

[SlimReaper67]

My apologies, I will go back and read the rules, and refrain from such posts in the future.

 

[Jeff White]

I can draw from concealment and get COM shots on target at 12-15yds in 1.5 - 2 seconds.

Try this exercise. Get two airsoft guns, one as close to your carry gun as possible. Give the other one to a training partner and set up a situation where he is holding you at gunpoint. Draw from concealment and shoot him before he shoots you. Do 10 iterations and report back how many times you won the gunfight. I'd bet it's not many. Try it again with an attempt to distract the "bad guy". Even conversation can be a distraction. See if you do any better. An unexpected action, like stumbling or conversation might be enough to break his concentration and give you the 1.5-2 seconds you need. Of course there is always the possibility the distraction will add some time to your draw or have a bad effect on your accuracy if you're shooting from an unconventional position you haven't trained on.

 

[Good Ol' Boy]

Try this exercise. Get two airsoft guns, one as close to your carry gun as possible. Give the other one to a training partner and set up a situation where he is holding you at gunpoint. Draw from concealment and shoot him before he shoots you. Do 10 iterations and report back how many times you won the gunfight. I'd bet it's not many. Try it again with an attempt to distract the "bad guy". Even conversation can be a distraction. See if you do any better. An unexpected action, like stumbling or conversation might be enough to break his concentration and give you the 1.5-2 seconds you need. Of course there is always the possibility the distraction will add some time to your draw or have a bad effect on your accuracy if you're shooting from an unconventional position you haven't trained on.

Well that would be ME trying to create an opportunity.

In the video in the OP we are talking about "looking" for an opportunity, such as the assailant being distracted by something outside of what I'm doing. Or just paranoid. Bottom line is he takes his attention off me for whatever reason.

I get what you're saying but I'm not sure how to recreate that in a training dynamic. We're not talking about drawing on a drawn gun face to face.

We're talking about looking for opportunities to engage or, as this thread has pointed out, making opportunities to engage.

Maybe you have some suggestions....

 

[Jeff White]

In the video in the OP we are talking about "looking" for an opportunity, such as the assailant being distracted by something outside of what I'm doing. Or just paranoid. Bottom line is he takes his attention off me for whatever reason.

You can't count on an outside distraction. You have to create your own. The cavalry isn't coming over the hill. Sure maybe something will cause the bad guy to glance away for a second and you can act, but what if he doesn't? You're right, you can't train for an outside distraction to give you an opportunity to draw. You have to make your own or die waiting for one.

 

[Good Ol' Boy]

You can't count on an outside distraction. You have to create your own. The cavalry isn't coming over the hill. Sure maybe something will cause the bad guy to glance away for a second and you can act, but what if he doesn't? You're right, you can't train for an outside distraction to give you an opportunity to draw. You have to make your own or die waiting for one.

Well obviously from the video in the OP thats simply not true, as its laid out quite straightforward.

Whether or not one wants to rely on that alone is where we get into what the commentators in this thread brought up, making your own distraction.

IMHO both thought processes deserve discussion.

Unfortunately in the real world folks may not have time or opportunity to devise their own distractions.

 

[Jeff White]

Well obviously from the video in the OP thats simply not true, as its laid out quite straightforward.

And what guarantee do you have that your attacker will give you the same openings? If you want a list of things that an assailant may do to give you an opportunity to draw and shoot it’s simply not possible. That list would be so long it would be unmanageable and it would only be applicable to to anyone else because the odds of everyone having the same skill level and ability to think under stress are pretty low.

The clerk in the video was unarmed but there were opportunities to go the same opportunities that Correa pointed out to draw were opportunities for an attack, there were plenty of things behind that counter that could have been an improvised weapon.

 

[Good Ol' Boy]

I think we're more on the same page than not. We're just not conveying it simply.

If a CC civilian were to find themselves in a situation as the OP, you should be looking for every opportunity to take the odds in your favor. IE, looking for cues from the assailant on which to act.

On the other hand making your own opportunities to engage said threat is also a worthwhile strategy, and should be treated and practiced as such.

I really don't know what you and I are arguing.

 

[luzyfuerza]

I was able to recently test the effects of stepping aside during a drawstroke.

I took my TX-22 training gun to the range and timed a number of "draw to first shot" drills while standing still. I followed these up with a number of draws performed while stepping to the right, and another set while stepping to the left.

Targets were at three yards, with the gun carried SS IWB, concealed under a tight, heavy tee shirt.

I was surprised; my draw times were not affected by movement (average was just under 1.5 seconds) and all shots were in a 5" circle. The direction I moved in did not make any difference.

I'd be curious to know how movement affects others' speed and accuracy from the holster.

 

[Atavar]

Absolutely! If I'm in doubt as to whether my attacker is rational or psychotic, why should I give HIM the benefit of the doubt?

Do you perhaps mean psychopathic?