Conceal Carry in restaurants that serve alcohol

[wow6599]

OK in Missouri.....

 

[The Bushmaster]

Not only is it O K in Missouri...It's O K to have a few at dinner. You can even toss a few at the bar as long as you don't make a fool of yourself with the weapon.

Seems that no one has killed anyone after a few drinks who also have CCW permits. Still no "blood baths" in the streets here.

 

[Ogre One]

I find it interesting how politicians (aka - those who think they know best for all) attempt to legislate actions that most can self-regulate through common sense and their own moral compass. Even with a topic such as "gun control", what I find hard to stomach is the lack of personal responsibility. Even though it is against the law to drive impared, you still read about the wrecked lives and loss caused by those who chose to drive drunk. Sadly, I think we will be embroiled in constant debate and always in the proverbial crosshairs when dealing with personal freedom.

 

[Sam1911]

Legal to carry in bars and restaurants that serve alcohol in PA. Legal to drink while carrying in PA. No statutory BAC limit.

However, it is against the law to hunt while intoxicated.

 

[digsigs226]

I know its legal here in Utah up to .08

Occasionally I will get a drink or two every now and then while carrying... ::ducks::

 

[hirundo82]

As far as I know, TX law does not define intoxication criteria for the purposes of concealed carry. I don't know precisely what that would mean in court, but it might mean that you could be held to a stricter standard based on what the judge/jury felt was reasonable.

DPS likes CHL instructors to emphasize there is no BAC limit for being found guilty of carrying under the influence. While correct, the same is true for DWI--if you are not in control of your faculties due to any substance you are intoxicated, BAC greater than 0.08 or not. Much harder to prove in court without the breath test though.

 

[Tony_the_tiger]

In Florida, it is illegal to carry in

any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises, which portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to such purpose

Thus it appears to me (and I am not a lawyer) that you can ccw in an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages, but you cannot be at the bar. You could ccw in a restaurant if you sat at a normal table, and you could ccw at a club or bar that had music playing as long as you did not visit the bar area, because the portion of the establishment primarily devoted to dancing or eating is not the same portion primarily devoted to dispensing alcoholic beverages.

Furthermore:

Any person who willfully violates any provision of this subsection commits a misdemeanor of the second degree.

A person who has been convicted of a designated misdemeanor may be sentenced as follows:

For a misdemeanor of the second degree, by a definite term of imprisonment not exceeding 60 days.

Fines for designated crimes and for noncriminal violations shall not exceed:

$500, when the conviction is of a misdemeanor of the second degree or a noncriminal violation.

I'd be willing to bet they would also forfeit your license...

However:

This section shall be liberally construed to carry out the constitutional right to bear arms for self-defense.

References

Florida Senate. (2000 - 2011). 2010 Florida statues (including special session A). Chapter 790: weapons and firearms. Retrieved from http://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2010/Chapter790

 

[MedWheeler]

To add to Tony the Tiger's comments regarding the State of Florida, you are not only permitted to carry while within a restaurant that serves alcohol, you may even consume as well. This applies, as was said, as long as you are in the dining portion, or another portion not devoted to the dispensing and consumption of alcohol.

 

[Scimmia]

I know its legal here in Utah up to .08

Same in Iowa, you're fine until you hit .08.

 

[Tony_the_tiger]

To add to Tony the Tiger's comments regarding the State of Florida, you are not only permitted to carry while within a restaurant that serves alcohol, you may even consume as well. This applies, as was said, as long as you are in the dining portion, or another portion not devoted to the dispensing and consumption of alcohol.

Hi Medwheeler and thank you for bringing up this point of discussion. However I would have to disagree with your comments. Technically, it is legal to consume alcohol while carrying. However, it is not legal to discharge a firearm while under the influence of drugs or alcohol. Therefore, assuming that the licensee is concealing a weapon for the purposes of self defense, consuming alcohol would contra-indicate using that weapon and would greatly complicate matters after the fact.

It is unlawful and punishable as provided in s. 790.151 for any person who is under the influence of alcoholic beverages or controlled substances, when affected to the extent that his or her normal faculties are impaired, to use a firearm in this state.

Using a firearm also means

As used in ss. 790.151-790.157, to “use a firearm” means to discharge a firearm or to have a firearm readily accessible for immediate discharge.
(2) For the purposes of this section, “readily accessible for immediate discharge” means loaded and in a person’s hand.

Impairment is further defined in Florida Statutes Chapter 790 below:

a) If there was at that time 0.05 percent or less by weight of alcohol in the person’s blood, it shall be presumed that the person was not under the influence of alcoholic beverages to the extent that his or her normal faculties were impaired.
(b) If there was at that time in excess of 0.05 percent but less than 0.10 percent by weight of alcohol in the person’s blood, such fact shall not give rise to any presumption that the person was or was not under the influence of alcoholic beverages to the extent that his or her normal faculties were impaired, but such fact may be considered with other competent evidence in determining whether the person was under the influence of alcoholic beverages to the extent that his or her normal faculties were impaired.
(c) If there was at that time 0.10 percent or more by weight of alcohol in the person’s blood, that fact shall be prima facie evidence that the person was under the influence of alcoholic beverages to the extent that his or her normal faculties were impaired.

If that happens

Any person charged with using a firearm while under the influence of alcoholic beverages or controlled substances to the extent that his or her normal faculties were impaired, whether in a municipality or not, shall be entitled to trial by jury according to the Florida Rules of Criminal Procedure.

At which point you would have to defend the charges of

Any person who violates subsection (3) commits a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.

And face similar penalties for a second degree misdemeanor as referenced in my original post. However, should you find yourself convicted of discharging a firearm under the influence, that conviction may be used against you when you are trying to show in a courtroom that you used the firearm in self defense.

Therefore, while it may be technically legal to drink while ccw'ing in Florida, you cannot do so at the bar and you better be sure to keep your cool and keep your BAC below the legal limit which is .08 for driving and presumably .06 for firearms. Depending on your bodyweight, the contents of your drink, and the validity of the instrument used to measure your BAC, .06 could be reached rather quickly.

 

[CTPhil]

No problem in CT, I do it all the time.

 

[langenc]

Can carry in restaurants that serve in MI-No BA over a set limit-less than 1 beer.

Can open carry w/CPL-still no drinking.

All subject to posting which is quite rare, at least up North. I dont know about in the ghettos.

 

[moxie]

Texas, OK unless establishment derives 51% or more of its sales from alcohol and posts a specified sign to that effect. Drinking while carrying OK but with essentially the same proscriptions as driving. Roughly translated this means you can't carry in bars that are posted, although restaurants are OK. And, don't be stupid if you drink, no matter where you are.

 

[wildcatter109]

I can carry in a restaurant that serves alcohol now, I like that. But I can assure you, if you think using a hand load could be a problem in court, if they push it, you are really in for a treat if you use your CCW after having alcohol, even one drink, if you had a single beer, they would have a field day!!! I can wait till I get home if I really want a drink. I would never consider just going into a bar for a drink or 2 and carrying, I was taught a long time ago, just cause you didn't create the problem, doesn't mean it's not your fault. Soda shops rarely have conflicts, bars frequently do!!:banghead: Responsibility means controlling your own destiny.

 

[jmstevens2]

Several have stated that the law where they are says that they can carry if the majority of income comes from food (or a slight variation on that theme). How am I expected to know what they take in in different kinds of sales?
Do they have to post it? That seems like a good way to get screwed. Much higher profit margine on alcohol than food. It might not be as easy to tell as it seems.

 

[JohnKSa]

How am I expected to know what they take in in different kinds of sales?

In TX, that is the case, however, you can not be held accountable if the restaurant fails to post the appropriate signage.

 

[mgmorden]

How am I expected to know what they take in in different kinds of sales?

How are you even supposed to know that they serve alcohol? As Plan2Live has already alluded to - no carry in SC if they serve alcohol "for consumption on the premises". Now some places you already know - pretty much any Applebees type place or a Mexican restaurant or the like all have bars so you know that's a given. Other places aren't so obvious though. I went into a little Japanese express place the other day - tiny hibachi place that most does to-go orders. No bar, but sure enough Sake was listed in the beverage section of the menu.

For the most part, unless its a McDonalds or other well known fast-food chain, you pretty much have to just assume that all restaurants are no-carry zones until proven otherwise.

Plan2Live: check out http://www.scfirearms.org/ if you haven't already. They monitor various sorts of legislative efforts. I do know that an attempt was made at removing this provision this year, but the bill was eventually poisoned with extra "changes" that would have made it illegal for a non-SC resident to carry a handgun PERIOD (as in, you couldn't even transport one in a vehicle through the state) unless that had a reciprocated CWP. After that was added most of the gun rights groups (sadly, but understandably) pulled their support of the bill.

 

[The Real Wyatt]

In Kentucky it is ok to carry in restaurants that serve alcohol but not in a bar. Nothing wrong with having a coctail or a glass of wine or beer with your dinner either.

 

[mortablunt]

In VA, you can't drink while doing concealed carry. Strangely enough, you can drink if you take your gun out and open carry it. That could make for some interesting conversation?

"Are you going to the bar?"
"Sure, just let me whip this out..."

 

[jmstevens2]

In TX, that is the case, however, you can not be held accountable if the restaurant fails to post the appropriate signage.

I get that, but there were 2 or 3 states that say you can if they sell alcohol for less than half of their business. My question is for these States, how do you know what their alcohol/food sales rates are? This has nothing to do with a no carry sign.
Sounds like a law that is too open to making innocent people guilty.

 

[makarovnik]

Here in Washington you may carry where alcohol is served as long as it isn't in a "21 and over only" section. If minors can legally sit in that section you're OK to carry unless posted otherwise.

 

[mdauben]

How are you even supposed to know that they serve alcohol?

The OP was not asking how you determine if the establishment serves alcohol. That's generally easy enough. Its the states that prohibit you from carrying in an establishment that derives more than 51% of its income from alcohol sales. Evidently in TX they have to post the buisness to that effect, but in other states how are you supposed to determine their percent revenue?

 

[brnmuenchow]

In Michigan, if the establishment has more than 50% of revenue from alcohol, no concealed carry.

Same here in Texas, and they also have to have it clearly posted.

 

[R.W.Dale]

Legal here in Ar provided they serve complete meals and don't have.... beds???

posted via tapatalk using android.

 

[mgmorden]

The OP was not asking how you determine if the establishment serves alcohol.

The OP later alluded to research and action plans - presumably to change the situation here in SC. My statement was just reiterating the foolishness of the original law. Banning carry in locations that serve any alcohol poses a particular challenge simply in that it can be incredibly difficult to even determine whether or not a restaurant serves it or not. Hence, any law stating that you can't carry in a place that serves it becomes a de-faco no restaurant carry (at least your first time there) law.

It's a stupid restriction that the state should strike from the books.