concealed carry badges?

[ArfinGreebly]

Reading For Comprehension

IMO, this is a pissing match between cops who have arrest powers and people who don't.

I must disagree. I would offer a more articulate rebuttal, but I would be repeating myself. [post=6102429]See above[/post].

Security guards sometimes have badges to convey a sense of authority when in reality they have little to none. Some federal employees wear badges and have no police authority.

Well, the office whose recognition is associated with the badge fits within a framework of duties and responsibilities whose scope is understood by the various players. It's all about what scope has been agreed by the participants, including police and other law enforcement.

Why shouldn't regular joe citizen carry a badge? A badge identifying someone as a carry permit holder is not an official government badge and anyone looking at one should know there is no power conveyed by it.

[post=6102429]See my remarks above[/post] regarding perception and framework. Anyone looking at one won't know what they're looking at in a heated scenario with lots of random motion and noise. They will make assumptions based on the general appearance of what seems to be a badge.

The real problem is cops who feel threatened by someone wearing a badge lashing out and arresting people for impersonation based on a piece of tin.

[post=6102429]See above[/post]. You introduce a "badge" into an active scenario where the police have had to be summoned, and you will encounter abrupt and summary conclusions assisted by lots of adrenaline.


I stand by my classification of "bad idea."

 

[Brian Dale]

A friend of mine bought one of these badges and i sorta made fun of him at first.

You've got company.

I'm sorry to see the way folks happily pinned your ears back about it on your first day at THR, though. This happened, of course, because none of the rest of us have ever asked neophyte questions. Furthermore, we all arrived at THR magically knowing all about the Search function (which is excellent, by the way ).

Fellow members, joenobody arrived with logical questions, wrote about having thought them through, and posted his (I agree: incorrect) conclusions. He then asked for help in adding to his knowledge and refining his thoughts on the matter.

My point, and I do have one, is that we really don't have to pile on the new guy quite so hard.

kwikrnu, here's a good idea:

I don't wear one because I don't see the point.

Hang on to that thought.

 

[Sam1911]

Why shouldn't regular joe citizen carry a badge? A badge identifying someone as a carry permit holder is not an official government badge and anyone looking at one should know there is no power conveyed by it.

See my remarks above regarding perception and framework. Anyone looking at one won't know what they're looking at in a heated scenario with lots of random motion and noise. They will make assumptions based on the general appearance of what seems to be a badge.

The whole debate becomes marvelously spherical.

"I want to carry a Sheepdog CCW badge because folks will see it along with my gun and think I'm a good guy." (It's either this or you're just oddly fascinated by shiny objects...?)

"Yes, they might, but you're trading on the FALSE assumption you're hoping to get them to make that you are the type of person who normally wears a badge of authority to go with the gun."

"No, no, no. The badge carries no weight. It's a hollow piece of tin. I'm not trying to fool anyone, even for a second. No cop will hassle me for impersonating an officer just because I'm wearing a badge. Why, it even says "Civilian" on it if you get close enough to read the fine print!" (It could read "Violent Criminal" for all I care! It doesn't mean anything!)

"So you're NOT wearing a badge to convey the image that you are a good guy with certain authority?"

"No, not at all. It's just a piece of tin."

"So...it really isn't supposed to *DO* anything for you or convey any special protections?"

"NO!"

"So, you really don't care whether other folks see it or not?"

"NO! Well...unless I need them to see it so they'll think I'm a good guy!"

"But I thought you said you weren't trading on any false impressions the badge might give?"

"Not at all!"

"But then why should seeing it make them think you're a Good Guy?"

"Well, the good guys with guns often do wear badges, so, by association..."

"But I thought you said you weren't trading on any false impressions the badge might give?"

"NO, I am not!"

"So, there's no reason to wear it?"

"Well, if some one sees it and thinks I'm a good guy, that's good for me!"

"But, you just said..."

Etc., etc., etc.

And around and around we go! ;-p

-Sam

 

[msb45]

Better Than a Badge

In the back of the Feb issue of Combat Handguns they have an ad for a "real" ID card, T-shirt, and a RAID jacket. They proudly announces your status as a Home Front Security agent.

CCW badges are so yesterday.

In America you shouldn't need a badge to carry a gun. It's your right as a citizen. CCW badges just propogate this myth. :banghead:

 

[kwikrnu]

An official police badge shows the policeman has authority to enforce the law.

A carry permit badge does not. A geek squad badge doesn't. Someone with a security badge doesn't. A kid with a cereal box badge doesn't. As long as someone with one of these badges doesn't say or act as if they have police powers there is no problem.

 

[kwikrnu]

The whole debate becomes marvelously spherical.

"I want to carry a Sheepdog CCW badge because folks will see it along with my gun and think I'm a good guy." (It's either this or you're just oddly fascinated by shiny objects...?)

"Yes, they might, but you're trading on the FALSE assumption you're hoping to get them to make that you are the type of person who normally wears a badge of authority to go with the gun."

"No, no, no. The badge carries no weight. It's a hollow piece of tin. I'm not trying to fool anyone, even for a second. No cop will hassle me for impersonating an officer just because I'm wearing a badge. Why, it even says "Civilian" on it if you get close enough to read the fine print!" (It could read "Violent Criminal" for all I care! It doesn't mean anything!)

"So you're NOT wearing a badge to convey the image that you are a good guy with certain authority?"

"No, not at all. It's just a piece of tin."

"So...it really isn't supposed to *DO* anything for you or convey any special protections?"

"NO!"

"So, you really don't care whether other folks see it or not?"

"NO! Well...unless I need them to see it so they'll think I'm a good guy!"

"But I thought you said you weren't trading on any false impressions the badge might give?"

"Not at all!"

"But then why should seeing it make them think you're a Good Guy?"

"Well, the good guys with guns often do wear badges, so, by association..."

"But I thought you said you weren't trading on any false impressions the badge might give?"

"NO, I am not!"

"So, there's no reason to wear it?"

"Well, if some one sees it and thinks I'm a good guy, that's good for me!"

"But, you just said..."

Etc., etc., etc.

And around and around we go! ;-p

There is no law enforcement authority conveyed by a carry permit badge. In fact anyone may purchase or wear a carry a carry permit badge. These badges mean nothing. However, that does not mean people shouldn't or can't wear them. If someone wants to buy one or wear them then why should it be prohibited?

 

[Erik M]

Police officers, Peace officers, Firefighters, hell even the dog catcher has a reason to have a badge. Possessing a license does not bestow on its owner the right to carry a star or shield.

 

[kwikrnu]

I must disagree. I would offer a more articulate rebuttal, but I would be repeating myself. See above.

Well, the office whose recognition is associated with the badge fits within a framework of duties and responsibilities whose scope is understood by the various players. It's all about what scope has been agreed by the participants, including police and other law enforcement.

See my remarks above regarding perception and framework. Anyone looking at one won't know what they're looking at in a heated scenario with lots of random motion and noise. They will make assumptions based on the general appearance of what seems to be a badge.


See above. You introduce a "badge" into an active scenario where the police have had to be summoned, and you will encounter abrupt and summary conclusions assisted by lots of adrenaline.


I stand by my classification of "bad idea."

There were several news stories last year about airport cops mad at TSA agent getting badges. The cops were angry because the TSA agents had no arrest authority. Fact is cops do not like it when anyone but them have badges. The problem is it is not illegal to wear a badge if one is not impersonating.

The scope of the badge can be determined by the badge itself. If the badge has security engraved on it the badge may belong to a security guard. Everyone should know cops are not security guards. If the geek squad guy flashes a badge I hope you know they have no police power. If someone flashes a carry permit badge you should know it means nothing.

Assumptions don't equal impersonation. Just because you see someone driving a white crown vic with a sway bar and spot light doesn't mean the driver is a cop. Just because someone flashes you a real cop badge it does not mean they are a real cop.

To you it may be a bad idea to someone else it may be a good idea. I have never read a story where someone with a carry permit badge was shot by cops.

 

[kwikrnu]

Police officers, Peace officers, Firefighters, hell even the dog catcher has a reason to have a badge. Possessing a license does not bestow on its owner the right to carry a star or shield.

Anyone who wishes to carry a star or shield may in my State no license needed.

 

[Brian Dale]

Yes, kwikrnu, the world can be a complex and difficult place. It isn't against the law to wear a dark blue windbreaker with POSER in six-inch letters on the back, but you won't see me doing it.

 

[kwikrnu]

You won't see me carrying or flashing a carry permit badge, but that doesn't mean it is against the law or a dumb idea.

 

[ArmedBear]

The problem is it is not illegal to wear a badge if one is not impersonating.

Nobody said it's illegal. You're arguing with the air.

It isn't against the law to wear a dark blue windbreaker with POSER in six-inch letters on the back, but you won't see me doing it.

Exactly. Or "dork" or "jerk-off" or "wannabe".

If someone had a CCW badge, or referred to himself as a "sheepdog" except in jest, I'd be gone. I don't hang out with people whose judgment is poor, and who carry guns.

"Legal" and "smart" are two different things. It's not illegal to spell "elitist" "elitest", either.

 

[MrCleanOK]

Not only no, but hell no. For more reasons than are worth explaining. . . .

 

[NWCP]

'Badges? We ain't got no badges. We don't need no badges! I don't have to show you any stinkin' badges!'

The Treasure of the Sierra Madre (1948 with Humphrey Bogart)

http://www.maniacworld.com/we-dont-need-no-stinking-badges.html

I couldn't have said it any better.

 

[Erik M]

Anyone who wishes to carry a star or shield may in my State no license needed.

Im just north of you, across the line. I should have worded my post to say "does not bestow upon its owner the powers that a badge represents on a LEO's uniform".

 

[wifey]

If having two threads with nearly the same topic is a concern, why don't the mods simply merge them together? They can even decide which title rules after the merger.

Everyones notification links will flow to the merged thread.

The software knows....

 

[sheepdog]

...Because...

...there ain't enough room in the recycle bin...

...some folks will continue to argue this...
...even when faced with the dictionary...
...even when cops state their point of view(even old fat ex-cops)
...even when published accounts prove that "attempted badges" get you in trouble...

...a man convinced against his will....is of the same opinion still...the school of hard knocks awaits...I suggest a Master solution to this one...

 

[Sam1911]

"There is no law enforcement authority conveyed by a carry permit badge. In fact anyone may purchase or wear a carry a carry permit badge. These badges mean nothing. "

"So you're NOT wearing a badge to convey the image that you are a good guy with certain authority?"

"No, not at all. It's just a piece of tin."

"So...it really isn't supposed to *DO* anything for you or convey any special protections?"

"NO!"

"So, you really don't care whether other folks see it or not?"

"NO! Well...unless I need them to see it so they'll think I'm a good guy!"

"But I thought you said you weren't trading on any false impressions the badge might give?"

"Not at all!"

"But then why should seeing it make them think you're a Good Guy?"

"Well, the good guys with guns often do wear badges, so, by association..."

"But I thought you said you weren't trading on any false impressions the badge might give?"

"NO, I am not!"

"So, there's no reason to wear it?"

"Well, if some one sees it and thinks I'm a good guy, that's good for me!"

"But, you just said..."

Etc., etc., etc.

And around and around we go!

There's lots of things that aren't illegal, but are indicative of hugely irresponsible and poorly thought-out behavior. It is distressing to see gun owners using such poor judgment -- especially as part of their decision to go armed in public.

You don't need a badge to carry a gun as a civilian. Badges exist only to convey a message to others about the wearer. If your badge truly conveys NO message, then there is no reason to wear it. If you admit that it DOES at least HINT at some message ("assumptions don't equal impersonation", i.e.: I can't help if if someone sees my fake badge and thinks it's real, wink, wink, nudge, nudge!") then that false impression is truly your only reason for wearing it.

Just because you see someone driving a white crown vic with a sway bar and spot light doesn't mean the driver is a cop. Just because someone flashes you a real cop badge it does not mean they are a real cop

And now we've passed another revolution in the argument, as YOU'RE the one talking about impersonation of an officer. You're making a "caviat visum" argument. The viewer is responsible for verifying the truth of the message being delivered. Which admits to the very falsehood you're committing with your badge.

Little white lie been around for years
Little white lie ringing in your ears
Turn around come around back on you
Well that little white lie's catching up to you

-Sam

 

[kwikrnu]

And now we've passed another revolution in the argument, as YOU'RE the one talking about impersonation of an officer. You're making a "caveat visum" argument. The viewer is responsible for verifying the truth of the message being delivered. Which admits to the very falsehood you're committing with your badge.

Impersonation was brought up on the first page.

Are you guys still attacking spelling?

I do not own a badge.

 

[luigi]

The problem is it is not illegal to wear a badge if one is not impersonating.

No, but it is stupid

 

[ArmedBear]

I do not own a badge.

Why not, then?

 

[jcwit]

This has gotten utterly ridicuious.

Why not let those who wish to buy a badge to make them selves feel important do so.
Those that do not need an ego trip need not buy one.
I'm in the later catagory.

 

[Brian Dale]

Why not let those who wish to buy a badge to make them selves feel important do so.

We do "let them," in that nobody's arguing for prohibition.

However, since THR's reason for being is to promote responsible firearms ownership, most folks here are inclined to at least pass the word to those who haven't heard it. When somebody posts, "Is this a good idea?," we'll respond, "Nope."

And when that's been done, and then someone decides to post specious arguments and to quibble, some of us just can't resist posting responses, mostly for the sake of others who might be lurking.

I agree with the point that I believe you're making. My arms are tired; let's leave the poor old nag in peace.

 

[The Bushmaster]

Peace it is...Where's a mod to close this?

 

[kwikrnu]

It is not irresponsible to own or carry any badge including a carry permit badge. It is irresponsible to break the law and use the badge for any criminal purpose.