Concealed Carry Conundrum. . . Long, but need Suggestions?

[Shake]

I currently work for a state government agency and have a concealed carry permit.

Due to a legal opinion by the attorney general's office, a state human resource rule was changed which forbade employees from carrying a firearm while working in a state building, a state vehicle, etc. It was in contradiciton to the concealed carry law which allowed permitees to carry a concealed firearm. The previous rule stated:

Employees shall not carry firearms in any facility owned or operated by the state, or in any state vehicle, or at any time or any place while on state business. . . Employees who violate this rule shall be subject to disciplinary action

The new rule does not mention firearms.

My goal is to be able to carry 24/7, but to this point, I haven't "dared" for fear of being discovered. I feel I'm on sound legal ground, but I know that if I'm "caught" there will be repercussions. People in my line of work aren't the most gun-friendly people in the world to put it mildly.

My problem is coming up with some mode of carry that will allow me easy access to my firearm, but also minimize the risk of being discovered (join the club, I know).

I've thought a lot about it and have almost resigned myself to some sort of off-body carry. The reason being that some of the people I work with are "touchy". You know the type that prod, jab, poke, when they get the chance? These are the people that will stand by you during a conversation and give you an elbow after a joke, or whatever. Seems a little stupid, but some people just can't keep their hands to themselves (I think we all know the type). I'm worried that one of them will jab, elbow, whatever, at just the wrong spot and hit my weapon. It's easy to tell a stranger "sorry, it's my pager/phone/blood sugar monitor/etc.", but these people know me well. Explanations like that wouldn't fly.

Drawbacks to off-body carry are probably not worth listing as we are all aware of them (speed, access to the gun, securing the weapon, etc.).

Compounding the problem is the fact that I ride public transportation to and from work. I do spend time on the streets waiting for buses and during transfers (increasing my need for carry). Ideally in that situation I would want to carry on my person.

My questions. . .

What would you carry if you were me?

How would you carry if you were me?

I'm 6'4", 201 lbs., wear mostly casual, anything from khakis (Docker's type) and button shirts to "nice" jeans. Pretty much all tucked in except winter when I wear the occasional sweater. I carry a backpack and a daytimer. Can't really change my mode of dress (if anything I would have to go MORE dressy rather than less).

I have no secure area of my own at work (cubicle, some lockable cabinets with flimsy locks). In other words no place I could lock up my weapon if I had to.

I'm willing to make whatever cash outlay I have to in order to get a setup I can use (i.e. new gun, holster, carrying case, whatever). I'm currently carrying an H&K USP compact which would be too large for on-body carry at my job.

Any suggestions, experiences, or advice would be greatly appreciated. . .

Shake

 

[mummac]

I asked the same question to my uncle who is a long time undercover detective. He suggested an ankle holster. That's what he uses. I don't like that idea because it would seem hard to get to quickly unless you are sitting down. Just thought I'd share his experienced opinion.

 

[artherd]

Thunderwear. Nobody's going to jab you 'there' (and even if they do, just give them a knowing wink, and mouth 'oh, yeah'

Seriously, it's supposedly not as fast to draw as an external or shoulder holster, but it's nothing as bad as an ankle either.

 

[clubsoda22]

If i were in your position i'd carry my bersa thunder in a smart carry holster. www.smartcarry.com.

Not as quick as a belt holster, but not likely to be found either, and you can have your shirt tucked in.

Since i'm a nursing student and hospitals are generally not open to the idea of their staff carrying, i've pretty much resigned myself to that method of carry when i get my permit. I have a Fist K4 tuckable IWB holster for it now,but i'd be afraid of having someone brush against me as well. Save that for off work carry. Working as an EMT i can't do it period. I'd loose my licence and it is illegal for me to carry when on duty. Not only could i get in trouble but so could my company. I can't even carry pepper spray on duty.

 

[mummac]

I can't even carry pepper spray on duty.

To me, that seems horribly wrong.

 

[clubsoda22]

tell me about it. On the upside, i can wear a kevlar vest!

They give us uniforms that make us look like cops too. Might as well put a bullseye on me.

In my regular life i can carry pepperspray, but god forbid i can carry it when i have to go into a crackhouse to get a guy overdosing on PCP carving bible verses into his arm with a pocketknife. The state couldn't have that.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Ankle carry is not terribly fast or convenient. Unless your pants ride down below the sole of your shoe, you will flash people during ankle carry. On some people, the bottom leather peeks out while walking and definitely flashes while sitting and the pant cuffs ride up.

Keep in mind that law enforcement often uses ankle carry, but they don't have to worry about the legalities or job issues of getting spotted and when they carry, it is usually as a BUG and not as a primary.

 

[Texas Bob]

If you go with the "docker style" pants, buy the ones with the "pleats." With this you can ccw a PM9 in a Hedley front pocket holster and it looks like you have a PDA or a wallet in your pocket when sitting down, it dissapears while standing. I wear royal robins at work and ccw a P9 in my right front pocket in an uncle mikes #3. The "cell phone" pocket holds a spare mag. When I wear dockers or jeans, the PM9 combination goes in the right front pocket. This dress is used when I cannot wear something that covers my strongside belt carry yet gives me more power than smaller calibers. Hope this helps.

 

[PCRCCW]

Deep Concealment tricks........hmmmmmmmmm. Off the body carry is just isnt my bag........not from a holster makers stand point...but from a CCW permit holder....I want my gun on me....even if it takes longer to get..its still there.

For Pocket carry...you can carry a small light 9mm....PM 9 Kahr in a Wallet style holster. Even with Docker style pants.....the pocket openings are HUGE....what Ive seen and works well is have someone sew a little velcro down in the pocket a couple of inches....match the thread color to your pants and it wont be obvious. This will keep your pockets from opening at "just the wrong time" and being made.

Smart Carry/Thunderwear may just be the trick.....If you have someone poking you there, Id think the sexual harrasment lawsuit threat would out weigh them telling others they think you have a gun in your underpants.

The "Well, what in the hell were you doing feeling him out down there? comments would be a deterent by themselves

Shoot well.

 

[CleverNickname]

I too will recommend the Smartcarry/Thunderwear. I've been using it for at-work carry for two years now. PM9 and 14 rounds of +P. I tried pocket carry, but it always looked like I had a brick in my pocket.

 

[Black Snowman]

1st I'd consult with a lawyer. Then depending on what he said I'd raise a stink about them denying you your legal right to carry. Those are just rules they made up not laws and if they are demanding that you not protect yourself and your co-workers then they are morally obligated to do it.

Obviously if you go the "change the policy" route you don't want to be carrying at the time but either way I'd check with a RKBA friendly lawyer before carrying or complaining.

Good luck no matter what you decided to do.

 

[ChickenHawk]

I agree with the pocket carry idea. A Kel-Tec P3AT (.380 ACP) might be a good candidate, or any of a host of other suggestions you've probably read here.

Pocket carry of a small gun is almost invisible while being fairly easy to access (except while sitting!)

Without getting into the "should you" part of the argument (which has also been debated at length here) don't kid youself that if you get caught you may forfeit your job. I'm 100% for protecting yourself, just do it with your eyes open.

Good luck, whatever you decide.

ChickenHawk

 

[Amish_Bill]

First.... a previous poster makes the error of thinking all holsters are leather. I have a black nylon Unkle Mike's ankle holster that all but matches the dark socks I wear. You still have to be aware of how you're sitting and where your cuff is, but it's not a glaring contrast.

You sound thin enough to get away with somthing like the Thunderwear. If I tried that, my general shape would make me look like I was perpetually "interested" in someone....

As far as the gun, how about a Keltec .32 or .380? They are small and thin. They are not a premium gun, but they are very capable in their intended role. One of them should fit into a pocket holster nicely.

 

[Brass Balls]

Get a Kahr PM9 and either a:

• Pocket holster - hitting something hard in someone's pocket shouldn't raise any suspicion since most folks have keys, money clips, pocket knives etc there anyway.
• Smartcarry - Hopefully you won't be catching any elbows in the groin.
• Ankle holster - A sacrifice in access time but virtually undetectable with a small gun and the access is pretty good when seated/driving.

clic pic

 

[Lone_Gunman]

A Kel Tec P3AT in a front or back pocket holster will be absolutely undectectable.

Everything else is bigger, harder to conceal, and more likely to get you discovered, and/or fired.

Also, I would be kind of careful raising too much stink about the policy in place. Even if you fight and win a legal battle over CCW, you might find it hard to advance in the bureaucracy after becoming a trouble maker.

 

[TallPine]

Seems a little stupid, but some people just can't keep their hands to themselves

Well, to begin with, I would make them cut out that poop right now, whether on not you eventually decide to carry.

It is uncalled for, and you don't have to take it.

Should be grounds for a harrassment case if they don't start taking your gentle or not-so-gentle hints.

 

[Car Knocker]

I have found that I can carry a .45 ACP Kimber Ultra Carry in a "tuckable" Milt Sparks VM-2 using the Kydex clips and neither my wife or daughter are aware that I am carrying. The secret seems to lie in "blousing" the waist of the shirt.

 

[dfariswheel]

While rigs like the ankle carry are options, all of them are fairly easy to detect since you're dealing with "touchy-feely" people.
Street hookers are masters at "bumping" johns, to see if they're armed, and probably cops.
If you're carrying a gun, they'll find it, and the chances are, your co-workers will too.

Ankle holsters are actually not that concealable, as well as slow and awkward to draw from. Concealment of the ankle rig doesn't hold up the first time you hit the rig against a desk or doorway. Nothing on your leg makes a loud "CLUNK" BUT a gun.

In your position, I'd recommend one of the good leather "day-timer" or brief cases with the built-in concealed holster.

There are several makers around like Colorado leather that offer some very high class-low profile designs.

When you get to the office, lock it up. Most of the designs also have lockable holster compartments, so even if someone found it, they wouldn't be able to access the gun.

Few people ever equate "gun" with a nice leather day-timer or briefcase, and an added benefit is, you can carry a substantial firearm.

 

[Amish_Bill]

Concealment of the ankle rig doesn't hold up the first time you hit the rig against a desk or doorway.

How do you smack the inside of your ankle on the side of a desk or doorway?

My ankle rig is setup to ride on the inside of your off leg, not the outside of your carry leg... Others are designed differently?

Daytimer... not a bad idea. Easy to mis-place, but not at all conspicuous... unless you carry a daytimer but write all your notes on post-its? Are any of them setup so you can open it and use a notepad without exposing the gun?

 

[Quartus]

Are any of them setup so you can open it and use a notepad without exposing the gun?

Yep. Very discreet. Sorry I don't have a link for you. Only problem with that setup is security, of course. If you leave it lying around...

 

[Black Snowman]

I know someone who CCWs a Makarov in his breafcase. Just tosses it in. There's no CCW in his state so I won't name names. I believe his co-workers know and approve however so something more descreet and secure may be better.

How about one of the MP5K/PDW brief case rigs Seriously though the scheduler/case idea seems to be the best so far. You could even pocket carry in a pocket holster on the way in for faster access then secure it in a briefcase or what have you once your "safe" at your destination.

 

[CleverNickname]

How about one of the MP5K/PDW brief case rigs

Yeah, then instead of having to try to answer the question, "What's that clip on your belt?" (for IWB holsters), you have to answer the question "Why does your briefcase have a hole in the side and a trigger under the handle?"

 

[Logistar]

I am afraid I can't top all these suggestions but here is another idea that *I* have used.

I went shopping and bought an American Tourister bag/briefcase. I can carry it by two handles or a shoulder strap. I put papers, my PDA, etc in there and carry it back and forth to work. I actually did this for a while "to get everyone used to it".

I was careful to make sure that the ONE (outside front) zippered compartment was the perfect size for my 9mm in a paddle holster. (The other zippered compartment holds the PDA.) Since the holster covers the entire gun (as seen from the top), the gun can't be made even it that compartment is accidentally unzipped. (Both the bag and the holster are black.)

When I leave work, I simply take the gun out of the case, slip it on my belt and I'm READY! . When I get to work, I either place it in the case while in the car or head into the men's room and do it there where I can't be seen. I make SURE that no one can see me do this!

I do NOT like off body carry and it has it's problems (some of them serious) but if you believe that your bag is secure while at work... it might be an option.

Advantages: You can carry into and out of work! No one could "make you" from looking at you/touching you. You have your CCW available in case of workplace trouble.

Disadvantages: It is OFF-BODY. It could be discovered by a snoop. It could be stolen more easily. While somewhat accessible, it would really only be of value if trouble started down the hall. I'd think you'd need at least 5-10 seconds (maybe longer) to access the CCW with it zipped up.

- one night the night supervisor came into my room and told me discretely that the was a possibility of trouble from an unhappy individual. Since most everyone (Including the boss) had gone home for the evening, I slipped the CCW on my belt and buttoned my jacket. - Nothing happened but I felt a lot better having my CCW!

Logistar

 

[Shake]

After reading some of the responses and re-reading my initial post, I don't think I came across all that clear.

To rephrase, the rule which forbade legal carry by employees was changed so that it now permits it. Or more specifically does NOT prohibit it.

Keep the ideas coming. I appreciate all the input so far. . .

Shake

 

[Quartus]

Clear to me, Shake. Not prohibited, but definitely NOT acceptable to the majority of your co-workers. And if it became known, the rules would probably get changed real quick to make it clear that CCW IS prohibited. Right?


Hmmm. I guessing you work in some kind of social service capacity?


BTW, I agree with a comment made here already - CCW or not, I'd put a stop to the touchy-feely.