Concealed Carry Overkill?

[kcshooter]

Glocks aren't legendary for accuracy considering the long, heavy first pull, and the shorter second pulls on the trigger, not to mention the rather weird trigger, altogether

What are you talking about? Absolutely incorrect. Not even close.

and if you think the 26 has the best trigger, you haven't shot a race gun 34.

Oh yeah? If you think a Glock is a DA/SA trigger, you have never shot any Glock at all.

 

[The_Armed_Therapist]

In a crowded street or theater, you'd be willing to spit 30 shots from 100 ft in the general direction of the shooter? What happens to the 29 rounds that you miss with? I'm NOT one of those who think that a ccw'er wouldn't have a chance against the theater shooter....but I also don't advise taking shots you may or may not connect with in an area crowded with civilians. Look at what just happened in NYC....POLICE officers shot NINE people trying to take down a perp. At what point is the collateral damage worse than doing nothing? Whats worse? The shooter claiming another victim, or you killing somoene trying to stop him? If you cant MAKE the shot, don't TAKE the shot, especially when innocent lives are in the balance. If you can make that shot, take it, but don't talk of spitting 15-30 shots "in the general direction of" a shooter in a crowded room. Those rounds are going SOMEWHERE, and with each shot fired, the odds of an innocent person being killed at your hands goes up

That's common sense. I assumed that this would be taken into consideration. I'm not cognitively-impaired.

 

[The_Armed_Therapist]

This is such a subjective thread. Everybody's situations and decisions are unique. A retired person living in a suburban gated community will have much different needs and circumstances than a jeweler who works in a city who commutes and transports inventory through areas with gang activity.

I'm surprised how relatively heated this thread and the related one are getting on this subject. Who cares if someone carries extra mags, a back-up, 5 back-ups, or nothing?

 

[Old Fuff]

Yup...

What I carry in terms of guns and ammunition (both caliber and reloads) will be based on an assessment of what the particular threat level and environment is, and usually in my case it's pretty low. Others I'm sure face different situations, but not many. They just get a vicarious thrill going loaded for bear.

 

[Unistat]

I'm surprised how relatively heated this thread and the related one are getting on this subject. Who cares if someone carries extra mags, a back-up, 5 back-ups, or nothing?

While I agree "who cares" (other than pure curiosity) I am not suprised. Carry choices are so personal people often feel that if you disagree with their choices (or just choose differently) you are disparging them personally. I've heard it best put: "If you carry less than me, you're a naive sheeple. If you carry more than me you're a tactifool mall ninja."

I carry a G23 with a spare G22 mag. I used to have a S&W 442 BUG till I gave it to my dad. I keep a Kel-Tec SU-16 folded up in the trunk of my car.
*shrug* I make the choices I can live with.

OP, I won't say you should carry what you are comfortable with. Instead I'll (badly) quote Clint Smith: "It's not supposed to be comfortable, it's supposed to be comforting."

 

[Godsgunman]

This is the way I see it. I am NOT a cop and I do not visit gang areas nor am I in a gang. I will never be in a "gunfight" like a cop or a gangbanger. I carry for self defense so my 12 rnds I carry will be enough for that purpose. In a true self defense situation, IMO, after 12 rounds have been spent, either I will be down for the count or the bad guy will be down for the count or already ran for the hills. Just my opinion.

 

[Skribs]

What I carry in terms of guns and ammunition (both caliber and reloads) will be based on an assessment of what the particular threat level and environment is, and usually in my case it's pretty low.

Why does the likelihood of being attacked affect what caliber and what ammunition you'll want onhand should you be attacked?

 

[coalman]

...had a 6 shot [ Colt ] revolver as the only gun as I was trying to go smaller and not seem paranoid. ... I was happy that I did not need to deploy that pistol,I had access to much larger guns and they were loaded and ready... But I promised myself that if I got through that situation, I would not be in such a 'gun poor' situation again.

I think some people do not seriously consider this and find it interesting folks need to experience the feeling to grasp the concept. I tried "small" low capacity guns. They were more comfy indeed. I shoot them very poorly, worse in any type of "action" shooting, and 5-7 poorly placed rounds later the show was over. They were not comforting at all. I realized, for me, I do not want to have the gun I regret having when I need it. Now, and for some time, the only (few) guns I own are those I would be most comforted to have when/if needed. No "bugs" and no safe queens.

 

[weemsf]

JMO, I am a pastor. I am often armed, as I am right now while I am donating blood. This city is the most crime-ridden in our county. I am also a Sheriff's chaplain. Might need to respond to a call for support as I am considered a reserve. Personally, I tote what is comfortable, meaning fits my dress style without compromising my safety. I don't want anything smaller than a9
9MM. I used to carry a 442, but have switched to a LC9. Heavy trigger, but learnable. Occasionally I will add one or two more guns in the car. I live near Memphis, Tennessee a violent city by any standard. Upon telling a MPD Captain I was going into theccity, his words to me were, take at least two guns.

 

[marb4]

Regardless of how much firepower, how do you train?

I appreciate all the input on my original question. I train a lot with my Glock 26 and feel that I am proficent with it however, how do you train for the actual situation where your life is in danger, your body flooded with adrenaline, and a bad guy has his weapon trained on you? I've done the drill where you do some sprints to get your heart rate up and then shoot but I can't believe its anywhere near the same as facing an actual threat. Other than being in an actual life or death situation, how do you "practice" for this?

 

[EddieNFL]

You forgot to mention the guys who have a pelican case with a AR and 12 loaded mags in their trunk.

Mine is in the backseat.

 

[Gryffydd]

I'm surprised how relatively heated this thread and the related one are getting on this subject. Who cares if someone carries extra mags, a back-up, 5 back-ups, or nothing?

It's because people have a preconceived idea of what it will be like if they ever have to use their guns in self defense. They have imagined a scenario set in a well lit environment with a safe backstop with a single, lone assailant who will either politely stand still for them to carefully place their shot (It'll only take one of course!), or will run away as soon as the gun is presented.

When you place the idea of spare magazines or BUGs into this scenario, of course it looks like overkill. When you're not considering multiple bad guys or firing wile moving to cover or poor lighting or just plain old failure to stop even with decent hits why would you ever want to carry all that weight?

I'm not saying everybody should walk around like they're about to get attacked by an entire band of the Hell's Angels, I'm just pointing out that many people like to prepare for the best case of the worst case scenario.

 

[coalman]

Other than being in an actual life or death situation, how do you "practice" for this?

Gaming. IDPA and USPSA will create a pressure to perform that range line herd shooting will not and the concepts mimic defensive shooting scenarios. Rambo classes are fine, but expensive and IDPA/USPSA speed things up, offer "action" shooting (target transition, weak/strong hand only, strings of fire, presentation from a holster, movement, cover, etc.) and include reloads. It's good at showing areas to improve. And, you spend time with a variety of folks from all different backgrounds and experiences who can be a wealth of information. See gaming for what it is (simulation) and you'll be fine. IMO, this is better than taking one class once from just one dude's way of thinking.

 

[Old Fuff]

Why does the likelihood of being attacked affect what caliber and what ammunition you'll want onhand should you be attacked?

I am apparently one of the relative few that believes more in bullet placement (and the ability to be precise while making fast additional shots if necessary) then the latest fad in tactical ammunition. That said some places offer a higher threat probability then others. There can be factors such as distance (long shots likely?), Population density or lack of same, penetration (too much or too little), etc. There have been times when I have modified EDC in relation to both arms and ammunition to match a different situation. As an example, if one is out in open desert and concealment is not an issue, a .38 snubby may not be the best choice. On the other hand (in my view) it works fine for a trip to the supermarket, if I bother to be armed at all.

 

[Lawdawg45]

I'm surprised how relatively heated this thread and the related one are getting on this subject. Who cares if someone carries extra mags, a back-up, 5 back-ups, or nothing?

Can't speak for others, but I could care less what you perceive as your needs, the scary part is when you think it's your responsibility to take 100 yard shots in a SHTF scenario with innocents around. A SWAT Officer perhaps might be proficient at this, but a survivalist/therapist isn't top on my list.

LD

 

[scaatylobo]

Good reading,funny too

I have enjoyed reading all your thoughts [ as I am sure you enjoyed mine ],but I do get a bit of humor from those that 'know' the S/D situation they will be involved in.

If I knew,then I would only carry that day,and only exactly what I needed.

OR better yet,stay home that day !.

I am SURE those in the movie theater were pretty sure they were safe and that a maniac was not about to come in there HEAVILY armed and shoot till HE decided to leave.

I am sure none will change their minds from this missive - that is sad as the facts are just that = facts.

But dont let that confuse or change your mind.

I will enjoy the rest of the posters,I am sure this is not over.

I will await the fat lady singing !.

 

[Gryffydd]

As an example, if one is out in open desert and concealment is not an issue, a .38 snubby may not be the best choice. On the other hand (in my view) it works fine for a trip to the supermarket, if I bother to be armed at all.

I have no problem with this sentiment.

The problem I have is with the sentiment that if someone carries spare mags they must not believe in bullet placement and they must plan on spraying bullets everywhere willy-nilly. I'm not saying you have this sentiment, but starting off with "I am apparently one of the relative few that believes more in bullet placement" kind of makes it sound like it.

 

[David E]

I appreciate all the input on my original question. I train a lot with my Glock 26 and feel that I am proficent with it however, how do you train for the actual situation where your life is in danger, your body flooded with adrenaline, and a bad guy has his weapon trained on you?

Competition, like USPSA or IDPA

Other than being in an actual life or death situation, how do you "practice" for this?

Competition again. You have the pressure of the clock and people watching you. There's an ER doc that can calmly run a chaotic ER even when multiple lives literally depend on the decisions he makes without hesitation. Yet, when it's his turn to shoot the stage, you can see his hand shaking nervously as he awaits the otherwise innocuous "beep."

Neither disciplines are training, per se, (regardless of what some claim) but you do learn a lot, mostly about yourself, your gun and equipment.

After some 30 yrs of competition shooting, the biggest benefit has been being able to perform on demand. Something that will be critical in an actual gunfight.

www.uspsa.org
www.idpa.com

 

[David E]

, the scary part is when you think it's your responsibility to take 100 yard shots in a SHTF scenario with innocents around.

LD

Maybe not his responsibility, but it's fun to shoot (and hit!) that far with a handgun without any SD applications.

However, recently a good guy made a 150 yd shot with his .357 that saved lives, including that of a cop, IIRC. It's somewhere on THR, about a month ago.

 

[Ramone]

After a friends experience, when he emptied a five shot revolver at his assailants (2 in number, one fell down, one ran away) and found himself with an emptygun while waiting for the cops to arrive- not know ing if the runner was coming back, or if friends of the BGs might be about, I became a firm believer in a reload mag.

Even with a higher capacity pistol, a full mag would be a comfort at such a time.

 

[David E]

Ramon's, I bet your friend "felt comfortably armed" 5 minutes before he had to pull it.

Similarly, I'm sure he "felt" that:

1) 5 rds were 'enough' since

2) he "planned on hitting" with all 5

Further, I bet he didn't think while he was shooting, "dang, I sure wish my gun was less powerful and held fewer rounds!"

 

[Skribs]

I am apparently one of the relative few that believes more in bullet placement (and the ability to be precise while making fast additional shots if necessary) then the latest fad in tactical ammunition. That said some places offer a higher threat probability then others. There can be factors such as distance (long shots likely?), Population density or lack of same, penetration (too much or too little), etc. There have been times when I have modified EDC in relation to both arms and ammunition to match a different situation. As an example, if one is out in open desert and concealment is not an issue, a .38 snubby may not be the best choice. On the other hand (in my view) it works fine for a trip to the supermarket, if I bother to be armed at all.

That makes more sense. I was just targeting the general attitude of "there's less crime here, so I only need 1 mag." Well, if you're attacked by 5 people in the "safe area" or 5 people in "gang territory" it's not going to matter. Or certain people who will carry chamber empty, but load a round when they're going into "rougher parts of town".

I am apparently one of the relative few that believes more in bullet placement (and the ability to be precise while making fast additional shots if necessary) then the latest fad in tactical ammunition.

Skill and gear are two unrelated factors (except for your skill with that gear), to assume that improving your gear will decrease your skill assumes a nonexistant inverse relationship...its ironic, because I'm a MMO gamer, and there are a lot of people in that culture that believe gear is directly related to skill.

It's because people have a preconceived idea of what it will be like if they ever have to use their guns in self defense. They have imagined a scenario set in a well lit environment with a safe backstop with a single, lone assailant who will either politely stand still for them to carefully place their shot (It'll only take one of course!), or will run away as soon as the gun is presented.

I'm going to assume you're exagerating here, but I understand the point. I can understand drawing the line and saying "This situation is way too unlikely, I won't prepare for it." However, the people who assume that "If I don't do it with my rig, I did something wrong" or make allusions that suggest if you need more than X, you're going to fail anyway are assuming a very big dichotomy between success and failure to defend oneself based solely on the number of rounds spent. I would also suggest they take a look at real-world accuracy and how a target may or may not stop (especially from a pistol shot) and realize that "5 rounds, I'm good for 5 attackers" is just machoism.

As to what one should assume to plan for, I'd say 2 attackers is very reasonable, and 3 attackers is going to be common enough to be considered. 4+ is very rare. Failures, rare as they may be with quality weapons, are another thing to be wary of.

Since I've started looking at it, I think I will definitely prefer the Primary+BUG (right now, my BUG isn't up to what I want, so I think I'll stay with the Primary+mag for now). If I do decide to carry an extra mag for only one, it would probably actually be for my BUG, because if I'm forced to draw weak side, I'd rather have more ammo. But I think I am likely to carry a spare for each. It won't drag my pants down or anything, and anyone who says I'm wearing a workout at that point is obviously overexagerating.

 

[Lawdawg45]

Maybe not his responsibility, but it's fun to shoot (and hit!) that far with a handgun without any SD applications.

However, recently a good guy made a 150 yd shot with his .357 that saved lives, including that of a cop, IIRC. It's somewhere on THR, about a month ago.

Actually, he was a perfect example of my point. It actually was a 165 yard shot, but in reality he was not in any danger until he fired on the suspect (his own words). He had no official duty to act and was in no immediate danger, and he could be in serious trouble if the dead suspects family files a wrongful death suit. Don't get me wrong, this guy was a hero and I'd rather give him a medal, but the reality these days is far different than most understand.

LD

 

[The_Armed_Therapist]

I said

100 feet

Not

100 yard

and I have a feeling that most people realized I was exaggerating to make a point.

 

[Skribs]

Actually, he was a perfect example of my point. It actually was a 165 yard shot, but in reality he was not in any danger until he fired on the suspect (his own words). He had no official duty to act and was in no immediate danger, and he could be in serious trouble if the dead suspects family files a wrongful death suit. Don't get me wrong, this guy was a hero and I'd rather give him a medal, but the reality these days is far different than most understand.

I'm sure saving a cop will go a long way if the family files a wrongful death suit. I also believe the shot was 165 feet, not yards, and the person who said "yards" was incorrect. I could be mixing up which was the correct measurement, however.