COP: Carrying a folding knife illegal in WA

[Good&Fruity]

I had to report for Jury Duty today, and foolishly decided to carry and check my gun with the Deputies instead of leaving it at home like usual. Immediately I was treated like a criminal. On top of that, for whatever reason questioned about how many rounds my magazines hold. I never got an answer to why that's important.

I also declared my pocket knife. Then I was told that any folding knife that can be opened with the flick of a wrist, by gravity, etc. is considered a dangerous weapon. I was told that I could be arrested and the knife confiscated.

Here's where it got interesting. The Deputy told me that usually they confiscate the knife, and sometimes book the person into jail. He told me he would give me the knife back with my gun at the end of the day, but that I might consider keeping it in my center console in case of a traffic stop. As long as the cop doesn't see it, it won't be an issue.

So apparently I can carry a gun, a big <removed by moderator> fixed blade knife, but no folding pocket knife. For that I have to carry a swiss Army Knife.

In any case, while I was a bit uncomfortable with the initial handling, I did feel as though I was treated SLIGHTLY better regarding the knife due to my CCW. Thoughts?

Lesson learned. Any time the government is involved, get ready to risk losing something. Freedom, property, money, etc.

 

[JerryM]

I suspect that a lot of cops do not know the knife laws, just as some do not know the gun laws.

The assisted opening knives may very well be confused with some type of butterfly or switchblades.
I asked a couple of cops about my Kershaw OSO Sweet, and did not get an answer that indicated that they were sure of the answers.

Regards,
Jerry

 

[Good&Fruity]

This is the statute he cited:

RCW 9.41.250
Dangerous weapons — Penalty — Exemption for law enforcement officers.


(1) Every person who:

(a) Manufactures, sells, or disposes of or possesses any instrument or weapon of the kind usually known as slung shot, sand club, or metal knuckles, or spring blade knife, or any knife the blade of which is automatically released by a spring mechanism or other mechanical device, or any knife having a blade which opens, or falls, or is ejected into position by the force of gravity, or by an outward, downward, or centrifugal thrust or movement;(b) Furtively carries with intent to conceal any dagger, dirk, pistol, or other dangerous weapon; or

According to that, 99% of pocket knives legal everywhere else in the country are illegal to carry here. ***?

 

[M-Cameron]

I suspect that a lot of cops do not know the knife laws, just as some do not know the gun laws.

The assisted opening knives may very well be confused with some type of butterfly or switchblades.
I asked a couple of cops about my Kershaw OSO Sweet, and did not get an answer that indicated that they were sure of the answers.

Regards,
Jerry

on average......police are not gun and knife people........they are more or less "regular" people......

so if you ask average joe on the street what the laws regarding XXXXX( mostly here-say, mis-information, and maybe a small dash of truth)......chances are that is the same answer you will get from an officer...

.....the only problem is.....average joe cant arrest you for his misunderstanding of the laws.......but the officer can.


i am of the belief that if ignorance of the law is not acceptable for me.....why should it be acceptable for the people enforcing it......

i honestly believe that police officers should be required to have a law degree before they can become police officers.

 

[JerryM]

Hi M-Cameron,

Do you think that lawyers are competent? I do not, however, if a law degree was required to be a cop who would want to be a cop? Those who got the degree could do much better money wise, so what would be the incentive?
Regards,
Jerry

 

[usmarine0352_2005]

.

In Minneapolis, MN you can't carry a folding knife with a blade over 4" inches.




Sometimes cities and counties have their own ordinances.



.

 

[Frank Ettin]

In any case, the Sabenza I carry everyday can be easily opened with one hand, but it does not have, "...a blade which opens, or falls, or is ejected into position by the force of gravity, or by an outward, downward, or centrifugal thrust or movement..." (nor do my other folding knives).

 

[Bonesinium]

It sounds like you were treated more then fair if I am understanding correctly. So was your knife in fact illegal to be carrying?

If it was, and you still got it back, and they you didn't get in any trouble for it, then that is the best you could have hoped for, being that you were in fact in the wrong. It seems to me as if they were just making you aware that it wasn't legal and that there can be consequences for it. Almost like a no harm, no foul, just don't do it again type thing.

 

[Mainsail]

I open carried my Sig P239 to the courthouse in Tacoma when I went in to renew my CPL; they had no problem with it.

Yes, Washington's knife laws are whacked but he's technically correct. Butterfly knives, knives with two sharpened edges, gravity and spring opening knives are illegal. Nevertheless, the state constitution mentions 'arms' which has traditionally included knives and swords as well as firearms. There used to be a guy up in Seattle that walked around the streets with a full samurai sword, and they couldn’t mess with him. So maybe it’s just a matter of someone taking the whole mess to court and setting some precedence.

 

[Good&Fruity]

I open carried my Sig P239 to the courthouse in Tacoma when I went in to renew my CPL; they had no problem with it.

You checked your weapon though I'm sure. It's not like you stood in line at the counter with your gun on your hip after you got through security.

Open carry is legal in WA (one of the last freedoms we still have). However; the cop does appear to be technically correct. It sucks though, because 99% of knives are illegal to carry here under that statute.

I don't know about being the test case though. They murdered a wood carver with a legal pocket knife. Can't imagine what they'd do to one of us.

 

[Gunnerab]

I carryed a katana into a tacobell once, everyone gave me strange looks but no one carred enough to ask, even the employees.

 

[Good&Fruity]

Any idea why he asked me how many rounds my mag hold? WA doesn't have a mag ban. Also, he took the mag out of the mag carrier and inspected the ammo.

 

[Mainsail]

You checked your weapon though I'm sure. It's not like you stood in line at the counter with your gun on your hip after you got through security.

Yes, the courthouse is required by state law to provide a secure place to store a citizen's sidearm. They're quick to come get it, slow to bring it back. I told him I'd prefer to leave it in the holster and hand him the whole thing, he was perfectly OK with that. Seriously, you don't want to be anywhere near that courthouse unarmed, and leaving it in your car six blocks away isn't much use to you.

At least guns are blanketed by state preemption, knives are not. Your 3½" spyderco might be legal in one town and ½" too long, and thus illegal, in the next. Don't quote me but I believe 3" blade length is the maximum that will keep you within the law pretty much everywhere. Now, almost every guy and a lot of girls have knives clipped into their pants pocket. This means that if the police want to detain you but don't have any real (and lawful) justification for doing so, they can always claim they were investigating you for violation of the city's law on blade length. I haven't heard of that happening but it's conceivable. I generally don't carry a knife clipped to my pocket when I'm carrying a sidearm openly for that very reason.

 

[jimniowa]

When I was in the Navy part of our survival gear (Naval Air) was a knife with a hook at one end to cut the shrouds on a parachute. The opposite was a button that when pressed exposed a 1.5-2" out the front, like push the button and the blade shoots out of the knife. I recently found this type of knife on the internet, 3.5" double edge ss blade. Google out the front knives. I bought one, it is a no BS knife and any perp with a butterfly, switch blade who while trying to intimidate you will be like a deer in the headlights when you close on the perp.
Jim

 

[Mainsail]

Any idea why he asked me how many rounds my mag hold? WA doesn't have a mag ban. Also, he took the mag out of the mag carrier and inspected the ammo.

It sounds like he was trying to harass you enough that you wouldn't bother him next time with bringing a sidearm to the courthouse. If you have his name I would call or visit his supervisor immediately.

As an aside, if you are ever uncomfortable talking to a police officer, ask him if he's detaining you, and if not (in the case you mention you weren't) stop talking to him. If he badgers you, demand to speak to his supervisor.

 

[Jim NE]

About cops not being gun or knife people...yeah, I've kinda noticed that too. No offense to all the gun people here, but I suspect it's by design.

My nephew became a cop a couple years ago in a moderate sized city, and I'm not sure he'd ever even fired a handgun prior to entering the academy.

 

[KSDeputy]

It sounds as if they could have been more courteous, I would have been. I carry an assist open knife, with a 3 3/4" blade. My last assignment was court security, and I enjoyed it more than any other in the 30 years I served. I treat everyone as I wish to be treated, unless they give me reason to treat them otherwise. One reason I carry that knife is for places where guns are prohibited. We seem to think alike. In the future best not to carry either into the courthouse, some of the younger guys get all stirred up about it.

 

[M-Cameron]

yes, i can understand how odd it must be to expect LAW enforcement officers to have a strong background in the LAW and legal preceding......

Hi M-Cameron,

Do you think that lawyers are competent? I do not...

i think they are far more competent than most officers in regards to the law....

.... however, if a law degree was required to be a cop who would want to be a cop? ....

probably the people who actually give a crap about serving and protecting their community......and not people looking for "authority", and the ability to carry a cool gun and treat people like underlings.

Those who got the degree could do much better money wise, so what would be the incentive?

money isnt the sole reason to take a job.....as i said, people who actually care about their community.

heck....there are people with advanced engineering degrees who work as car mechanics...because thats what they enjoy doing

....people who have the expertise to be doctors or surgeons......but enjoy working as nurses and care takers

why wouldnt the same hold true for police officers.

 

[FourTeeFive]

What was the folding knife that you were carrying?

 

[Good&Fruity]

probably the people who actually give a crap about serving and protecting their community......and not people looking for "authority", and the ability to carry a cool gun and treat people like underlings.

Quoted for truth.

 

[Good&Fruity]

It sounds like he was trying to harass you enough that you wouldn't bother him next time with bringing a sidearm to the courthouse. If you have his name I would call or visit his supervisor immediately.

As an aside, if you are ever uncomfortable talking to a police officer, ask him if he's detaining you, and if not (in the case you mention you weren't) stop talking to him. If he badgers you, demand to speak to his supervisor.

I didn't get a warm fuzzy feeling from him at first, in fact I felt like I was being treated as a suspect. He actually told me to get my hand out of my pocket when he approached me. I understand officer safety during a traffic stop, but I was a freaking juror, I declared my weapon. You think I'm secretly trying to harm anyone after all that?

But, in his defense, he noted that they confiscate almost a thousand knives just like mine a month and some go to jail over it. I got my knife back, and he showed me his lol.

 

[lemaymiami]

As a retired cop (and a guy that made more than one arrest for various blades, much more often for what was done with them than the fact they were being carried...) in the south Florida area, and superivisor that had to okay many, many arrest forms.... what's needed in most states are a lot clearer laws regarding weapons other than firearms...

What you actually have is every state with their own laws and variations, many very badly out of date (you might have to be a lawyer to actually figure out some of the language involved...). Just to make things really interesting in my state there have been many, many court rulings on various aspects of weapons of one kind or another that the written laws, themselves, can't be completely relied on. Young officers find out all the time after making an arrest when a state's attorney reviews the law and circumstances that what the law says isn't exactly what's being enforced by the courts.... at least that was my experience.

What I'd like to see is a clear definition of what constitutes an "ordinary pocket knife" so that anyone in that state can know where they stand. Of course that's just a pipe dream since they have so much else to do (don't laugh...).

 

[ATBackPackin]

or any knife having a blade which opens, or falls, or is ejected into position by the force of gravity, or by an outward, downward, or centrifugal thrust or movement;(

LOL, I can open a Buck lock-back knife like that. Does that make Buck lock-backs illegal too?

I do not agree with laws about knife blade size, but I can at least cope with those. I do not understand why how a knife opens has anything at all to do with it. I personally love my assist open Kershaws, some times it is extremely inconvenient to have to use two hands to open a knife.

Shawn

 

[PavePusher]

http://www.kniferights.org/

 

[lemaymiami]

Pave... thanks for the link. On the front page I noted all the info about what's going on in New York.... It confirms my long held belief that NY is the place you are sent to when you've been bad..... thank heavens I've managed to avoid it all these years.